Can the Giants seriously pass on a QB at 2??!!

[lancerman]

2 hours ago, Shady Slim said:

 

the cowboys and to an extent the jags disagree, and darnold and rosen aren't worth the first overall

smart cleveland takes barkley at one and baker "actually best of the quarterbacks on the board" mayfield with the fourth

The Cowboys had far and away the best offensive line in football and got a viable QB to go along with the RB they drafted. It's not the same. 

Cleveland would be stupid to take Barkley at 1. They'll likely get him at 4, unless the Giants are stupid. 

[mistakey]

8 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Please don't try to paint Bortles as a good QB. Had it not been for Ramsey, Bouye and Fournette, he'd go down as yet another failed top 5 pick. That 35 TD season was during a 5-11 campaign, pretty much centered around garbage stats while down 3+ TDs. 

I have no dog in this fight, but I'll tell you - Giants aren't good. Eli played a part in their horrible season, but if you don't think this team has a lot of holes, you're really optimistic. This is a BAD team. 

Unless you're looking at a Luck or a Wentz type QB (which NONE of these guys are) you're only asking for more failure by putting an OK QB into a bad situation. 

Dude wentz was an injury prone quarterback out of NDSU who people argued also that he may not be worth it.  He wasn’t anywhere close to luck in consensus.  You realize the number 2 in this draft is likely Rosen who is injury prone but is a phenom and played in a major conference ?

[ET80]

31 minutes ago, mistakey said:

Dude wentz was an injury prone quarterback out of NDSU who people argued also that he may not be worth it.  He wasn’t anywhere close to luck in consensus.  You realize the number 2 in this draft is likely Rosen who is injury prone but is a phenom and played in a major conference ?

Injury prone? He had one injury in his college career - one he came back from to win his 2nd consecutive National Title. I get it none of us really follow NDSU football that much, but the guy was highly successful, even if the competition wasn't up to snuff.

Rosen - despite UCLA being a powerhouse school with resources and a backyard full of 3/4/5 star recruits to add to the roster - never did anything other than win personal accolades. UCLA was a significant underachiever in Rosen's time, a preseason darling in the top 25, relegated to the Cactus Bowl as their postseason game (if they were even bowl eligible).

Rosen's college career illustrates exactly what I'm feeling on him. Underachieved overall, but gets a ton of hype.

[CWood21]

5 minutes ago, EliteTexan80 said:

Rosen's college career illustrates exactly what I'm feeling on him. Underachieved overall, but gets a ton of hype.

How did Rosen underachieve?  Are we talking strictly in terms of W/L or we talking about in terms of production?

[ET80]

19 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

How did Rosen underachieve?  Are we talking strictly in terms of W/L or we talking about in terms of production?

Win/Loss. UCLA is a team that is perpetually stacked with top talent, and they never managed to win at their expectations. 

While it's not all on Rosen, he's had his share of big blunders that did lead to the underachieving.

[Kip Smithers]

22 hours ago, Malik said:

It's something I'll never understand. Eli literally hasn't been a guy that consistently got his team to the playoffs since the mid 00s. That's literally over a decade ago at this point.

Neither has Rivers, but yeah...

[Kip Smithers]

Literally don’t know how you can watch last season and use that as indication we should move on. Seriously.

Two seasons ago (2016), was not really all that much better circumstances.

So yes pass on a QB, even though I likr Rosen. Build the o-line not only for Eli but for the next young QB. 

[lancerman]

2 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Neither has Rivers, but yeah...

The difference is Rivers was never a negative on his team. Outside of 2011 (largely considered Eli's best year) Rivers has had a higher passer rating, averages more yards a game (Eli has the higher overall because of the iron man streak), averaged more TD's a game (same thing with the Iron Man streak only it's even more egregious here), has solidly performed better in yards per average. So overall Rivers has statistically always been better. AND River's at one point or another led the league in Touchdowns, Yards, Rating, Y/A (3 times) and Completion Percentage, while Eli's only led the league in Interceptions.... 3 times. Also despite winning two Super Bowls, Eli's only ever been to 3 more playoff games than Rivers. Rivers once missed the playoffs despite being the passing yards leader and Y/A leader) while having 30 TD's, and 101 passer rating, by comparison Eli's never had a season comparable to that.

River's has been let down by his team a lot more, Eli's been a big part of the problem for his teams in the years they didn't win Super Bowls, and honestly he wasn't so great for a good chunk of 07. Rivers in the same situation as Eli would probably have fared just as well if not better. 

[Malik]

19 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Neither has Rivers, but yeah...

If the Chargers had the #2 pick in the draft I would say they should draft a new QB as well.

[lancerman]

9 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Literally don’t know how you can watch last season and use that as indication we should move on. Seriously.

Two seasons ago (2016), was not really all that much better circumstances.

So yes pass on a QB, even though I likr Rosen. Build the o-line not only for Eli but for the next young QB. 

2017 isn't the only year Eli's been a problem. 

Let's take 2016. 

63% completion percentage mid tier

26 TD's (ranked  tied for 10, so here's a good one, except just ahead of him was Winston and tied with him was Mariota and Carson Palmer so....)

4027 yards (midtier at 13)

251.7 yards per game (ranked 17)

86 Passer rating (near bottom of the league)

16 INT (tied for 4th most)

That's not even good. That's below average at best. That's like what you hope a rookie whose a project would maybe pull off. Not a franchise quarter back. And that was supposed to be the year where everyone was saying OBJ was resurrecting his career.

 

 

[Shady Slim]

6 hours ago, lancerman said:

The Cowboys had far and away the best offensive line in football and got a viable QB to go along with the RB they drafted. It's not the same. 

Cleveland would be stupid to take Barkley at 1. They'll likely get him at 4, unless the Giants are stupid. 

well they would be more stupid to take any quarterback not named baker at one - because he is going to be the best out of the draft - and there's a much higher chance baker will be there at four than saquon

[Kip Smithers]

5 hours ago, lancerman said:

2017 isn't the only year Eli's been a problem. 

Let's take 2016. 

63% completion percentage mid tier

26 TD's (ranked  tied for 10, so here's a good one, except just ahead of him was Winston and tied with him was Mariota and Carson Palmer so....)

4027 yards (midtier at 13)

251.7 yards per game (ranked 17)

86 Passer rating (near bottom of the league)

16 INT (tied for 4th most)

That's not even good. That's below average at best. That's like what you hope a rookie whose a project would maybe pull off. Not a franchise quarter back. And that was supposed to be the year where everyone was saying OBJ was resurrecting his career.

 

 

2016 was an average year coming off the previous year throwing 35 TDS (career high). Except is o-line has deteriorated each year since that, which had a knock on effect on overall offense and play calling.

[Kip Smithers]

7 hours ago, lancerman said:

The difference is Rivers was never a negative on his team. Outside of 2011 (largely considered Eli's best year) Rivers has had a higher passer rating, averages more yards a game (Eli has the higher overall because of the iron man streak), averaged more TD's a game (same thing with the Iron Man streak only it's even more egregious here), has solidly performed better in yards per average. So overall Rivers has statistically always been better. AND River's at one point or another led the league in Touchdowns, Yards, Rating, Y/A (3 times) and Completion Percentage, while Eli's only led the league in Interceptions.... 3 times. Also despite winning two Super Bowls, Eli's only ever been to 3 more playoff games than Rivers. Rivers once missed the playoffs despite being the passing yards leader and Y/A leader) while having 30 TD's, and 101 passer rating, by comparison Eli's never had a season comparable to that.

River's has been let down by his team a lot more, Eli's been a big part of the problem for his teams in the years they didn't win Super Bowls, and honestly he wasn't so great for a good chunk of 07. Rivers in the same situation as Eli would probably have fared just as well if not better. 

This is just bull. I agree in the overall sense that over their careers Rivers has been better QB. But that has nothing to do with what I said. Rivers hasn’t “led” his team anywhere in the grand scheme of things. He’s made the playoffs once in this decade. ONCE. I don’t even blame Rivers, he has completely been let down a lot. So has Eli. “Eli’s been a big part of the problem”, lol. “Eli’s been a negative”. Like for real, but then again you called Eli Jim Plunkett so what’s the point?

[brownie man]

15 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

Literally don’t know how you can watch last season and use that as indication we should move on. Seriously.

Two seasons ago (2016), was not really all that much better circumstances.

So yes pass on a QB, even though I likr Rosen. Build the o-line not only for Eli but for the next young QB. 

Where are you magically gonna find a young QB better than Rosen

I know Giants fans have been pretty lucky

but you can’t expect this to come around again 

and if it does it meant Eli was trash

your not going to find a QB option as good as Rosen unless you are picking top 3 again. 

No one is saying play the young QB but you gotta draft him or you’ll be in Denver’s situation pretending your signed Case Kennum is a franchise guy. Playing the Trevor Siemians, Brock Osweilers, and Paxton Lynch’s of the world because some knucklehead in the FO acted based on him living in some fairyland thinking he can get a franchise QB later. 

UNLESS ELI BOMBS YOU WILL NOT BE IN AS GOOD AS A SITUATION AS RIGHT NOW TO SECURE THE FUTURE OF YOUR FRANCHISE. 

A GUARD OR A RUNNINGBACK ARE NOT GOING TO GET YOU TO THE SUPERBOWL OR SECURE YOUR FUTURE 

If you pass on Rosen now you’ll become Denver in no mans land hoping a QB falls to you or having to mortgage the Future to trade up for one and pretending the next Case Kennum was your number 1 option all along. 

I hope for your team y’all don’t do this 

[MWil23]

I would argue that any franchise who has the 2nd overall pick with a 38 year old QB on a sub-par to bad team should draft a QB so long as there is a legitimate Franchise QB prospect available.