ronjon1990 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said: If the dine and corners perform up to snuff then the lb and safeties can be JAGS that do their jobs and the defense will be decent to good. We say that over and over, but I have vivid memories of Josh freakin McCown running like 20+ yards on us because coverage was good and it's no secret our LBs sucked. We've seen enough of the Miles Burris', Spencer Hadley's, Ben Heeney's, and Malcolm Smith's of the world to know better at this point, or so I'd hope.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: Competition at every level is great. There are soome glaring omissions in this right now: RB - They needed a guy to shake this group. Aging Lynch, Martin trying to rebound and not much else to speak of. LB - Nothing like a bunch of JAGs Safety - See above Bruce Irvin and Whitehead have been solid linebackers throughout their careers. Idk why people are so worried. When is the last time we had other proven linebackers in their prime? Howard and Morrison? But they were smaller and weak against the run... sure Bowman would be nice... you guys are acting like Morrow and James are scrubs. James was having a solid year until injuries, and Morrow stepped up and was a highlight of 2017. Plus we added depth in Lamur and Wilburn who have proved themselves in the league. Plus Lee and Azeem competing for spots on the team. Bowman would be nice but people act like the sky is falling when that simply isn’t the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daineraider Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said: Bruce Irvin and Whitehead have been solid linebackers throughout their careers. Idk why people are so worried. When is the last time we had other proven linebackers in their prime? Howard and Morrison? But they were smaller and weak against the run... sure Bowman would be nice... you guys are acting like Morrow and James are scrubs. James was having a solid year until injuries, and Morrow stepped up and was a highlight of 2017. Plus we added depth in Lamur and Wilburn who have proved themselves in the league. Plus Lee and Azeem competing for spots on the team. Bowman would be nice but people act like the sky is falling when that simply isn’t the case I think that’s part of our problem and has been our problem on D. We don’t ever seem to address the position properly and so we struggle on D. When was the last time you’ve seen a team have a top 5 D without good LBs? We need a leader in the middle our D, Bowman would help but we need to draft a guy at some point to take over that spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Humble_Beast said: Bruce Irvin and Whitehead have been solid linebackers throughout their careers. Idk why people are so worried. When is the last time we had other proven linebackers in their prime? Howard and Morrison? But they were smaller and weak against the run... sure Bowman would be nice... you guys are acting like Morrow and James are scrubs. James was having a solid year until injuries, and Morrow stepped up and was a highlight of 2017. Plus we added depth in Lamur and Wilburn who have proved themselves in the league. Plus Lee and Azeem competing for spots on the team. Bowman would be nice but people act like the sky is falling when that simply isn’t the case Our MLB options range from poor to unproven. I remember having this conversation last year about going into the season with a rookie 5th rounder in the middle. There were a couple in here that kept telling me to relax and that I have not seen Lee in the off-season and the coaches have. Therefore I should not criticize. Looks like round 2.5 of the same argument since this is the third year of garbage in the middle. I just did not voice my displeasure as loudly when it was Heeney. Both Lee and Heeney were 5th rounders but we fixed it this year by drafting a MLB in the 6th round. But hey I have heard Guenther is a LBer whisperer Or maybe NFL teams should have paid attention to Burifct in pads and not underwear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Our MLB options range from poor to unproven. I remember having this conversation last year about going into the season with a rookie 5th rounder in the middle. There were a couple in here that kept telling me to relax and that I have not seen Lee in the off-season and the coaches have. Therefore I should not criticize. Looks like round 2.5 of the same argument since this is the third year of garbage in the middle. I just did not voice my displeasure as loudly when it was Heeney. Both Lee and Heeney were 5th rounders but we fixed it this year by drafting a MLB in the 6th round. But hey I have heard Guenther is a LBer whisperer Or maybe NFL teams should have paid attention to Burifct in pads and not underwear. Biggest issues was not winning in the trenches. Our DTs have sucked since Seymour and Kelly and even they were Inconsistent... Last year we started a raw rookie DT and and an injury prone Edwards... that’s why it great I personally think we finally took care of the DT position. Yes we can’t have scrub LBs but we have 2 solid backers. Just one unproven spot and proven depth... James and Morrow could step up but I would bring in Bowman, he was solid last year... our two biggest weak spots last year on defense was DTs lack of pass rush cbs and Reggie Nelson we brought in guys in all those spots. Hard to address every need in one offseason. I personally like the potential of Marrow and James... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said: We say that over and over, but I have vivid memories of Josh freakin McCown running like 20+ yards on us because coverage was good and it's no secret our LBs sucked. We've seen enough of the Miles Burris', Spencer Hadley's, Ben Heeney's, and Malcolm Smith's of the world to know better at this point, or so I'd hope.... You didn't take into account I said the Dline as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Biggest issues was not winning in the trenches. Our DTs have sucked since Seymour and Kelly and even they were Inconsistent... Last year we started a raw rookie DT and and an injury prone Edwards... that’s why it great I personally think we finally took care of the DT position. Yes we can’t have scrub LBs but we have 2 solid backers. Just one unproven spot and proven depth... James and Morrow could step up but I would bring in Bowman, he was solid last year... our two biggest weak spots last year on defense was DTs lack of pass rush cbs and Reggie Nelson we brought in guys in all those spots. Hard to address every need in one offseason. I personally like the potential of Marrow and James... We have had one position filled with wet spaghetti thrown against the wall since 2014. Guess what position that is? We have had 2 over the hill players come in half way through the season and look like all-pros after what they replaced and then not get signed by anyone for the next year. For what ever reason we have not addressed this in five years now. We have reached for other positions but refuse to dedicate any meaningful resources to this position. Yes we have upgraded other positions but a true and talented MLB would improve our D by at least 5 spots in the rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roninho Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 37 minutes ago, Humble_Beast said: Biggest issues was not winning in the trenches. Our DTs have sucked since Seymour and Kelly and even they were Inconsistent... Last year we started a raw rookie DT and and an injury prone Edwards... that’s why it great I personally think we finally took care of the DT position. Yes we can’t have scrub LBs but we have 2 solid backers. Just one unproven spot and proven depth... James and Morrow could step up but I would bring in Bowman, he was solid last year... our two biggest weak spots last year on defense was DTs lack of pass rush cbs and Reggie Nelson we brought in guys in all those spots. Hard to address every need in one offseason. I personally like the potential of Marrow and James... Ehmmm, let's wait and see with that. I'm happy that we spend picks on the position in the draft, but it's not a given they will solve it. We need Hurst to actually see the field, while Hall is a raw rookie. As for the LB's: I'm happy to have one of the rookies or younger guys surprise me, but if i'm Gruden i'm working hard at somehow landing 2 stop gap starting calibre LBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 53 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: You didn't take into account I said the Dline as well. I don't need to. No D-line is going to stop all of the runs all of the time. For the most part, our D-line has been at least average the last couple of years except for the lack of pass rush at times. The linebackers have been absolutely sub par and haven't picked up their end of the slack in the run game for years. We all saw the difference when Bowman was brought in. Funny what a real LB can do. But as usual, we bring in a solid LB and then cut him lose or don't resign and try and fill it with a JAG. And time and time again it's the same result. And in the GDT's, people complain about whoever is playing LB and how bad it is. Then the off season rolls in and it's ignored by 1/2 of the fan base and the entire front office. Then someone shows the slightest amount of limited upside and everyone's all giddy and ready to anoint despite that player's cieling being at eye level with Trindon Holliday. When the linebackers are largely useless in the run game and barely adequate in coverage, it doesn't matter if the D-line and secondary ball out in the long run. The secondary is going to cover the pass game, the D-line is tasked with run stoppage and pass rush. The linebackers need to be able to do a bit of both. Mack, MEJ, and Jelly + whatever 4th guy of the day we pick have done about as well as they can with no security blanket behind them. Karl and a dude who would probably lose a foot race to LaDarius Gunter aren't gonna cut it in stopping the run. There's a reason so many fans and draftniks had us going LB at 10. Because its a blatantly obvious need and has been for years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 31 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: We have had 2 over the hill players come in half way through the season and look like all-pros after what they replaced and then not get signed by anyone for the next year. So if over the hill guy can be had after the draft and they can improve our defense so much then it stands to reason that we should address other spots first and fill the MLB gap (if needed) by the guys that will surely be there later. Stop gap LTs, DTs or corners won't be there later like a MLB because the position isn't as valuable. Maybe when the team doesn't have as many holes we can afford to invest there but I think they made the correct call this year in the top rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 9 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: I don't need to. No D-line is going to stop all of the runs all of the time. For the most part, our D-line has been at least average the last couple of years except for the lack of pass rush at times. There's a reason so many fans and draftniks had us going LB at 10. Because its a blatantly obvious need and has been for years now. Of course no dline is gonna stop all runs but if the dline is good to great then the LBs can be avg and still clean up the runs that do make it thru in general. And yes there is a reason we had LB going to us and it did have to do with MLB being among our top 5 needs but it also had to do with 2 ILBs being within the range that we would be picking in terms overall big board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: Bruce Irvin and Whitehead have been solid linebackers throughout their careers. Idk why people are so worried. When is the last time we had other proven linebackers in their prime? Howard and Morrison? But they were smaller and weak against the run... sure Bowman would be nice... you guys are acting like Morrow and James are scrubs. James was having a solid year until injuries, and Morrow stepped up and was a highlight of 2017. Plus we added depth in Lamur and Wilburn who have proved themselves in the league. Plus Lee and Azeem competing for spots on the team. Bowman would be nice but people act like the sky is falling when that simply isn’t the case Irvin is a DE now. Won't be dropping in coverage. James hasn't stayed healthy and showed nothing really when healthy. Morrow showed very little to suggest he can be a solid starting LB. Right now, there is no solution and Will or Mike. The unit is below average with a chance to be average right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roninho Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I get that we don't overpay in FA and spend to much for a LB to a long term big contract. But what i don't get is why we don't take a shot on 3-4 OLB's and ILB's for a combined $5 mio range. Guys who played a bunch of snaps and started but are not in line for a big contract. The perfect example for us was when we signed Philip Wheeler from the Colts. This year i see guys like Kevin Minter, played 2.000 snaps in 15&16 for the Bengals, for 800k to the Jets, or Ramon Humber who played 600 snaps in 13 games for the bills last season (signed for 1mio), Will compton, 1600 snaps in 15&16 for the skins (signed for 1.2 million), Corey Nelson (600 snaps for Broncos in 16) signed for 1.5 mio, etc. etc. These guys are not world beaters, but combined with Bowman and youth+draft picks i would feel a lot more confident going into TC that from that group 3 decent starters would emerge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 3 hours ago, big_palooka said: Irvin is a DE now. Won't be dropping in coverage. James hasn't stayed healthy and showed nothing really when healthy. Morrow showed very little to suggest he can be a solid starting LB. Right now, there is no solution and Will or Mike. The unit is below average with a chance to be average right now. Now you're just bending things to fit your narrative. James and Morrow have showed many flashes and traits to surmise they can be starting LBs. Whether they stay healthy (James) or build on that (both) is unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 If I was Gruden I’ll be working on two more contracts: MLB- Bowman TE- Julius Thomas maybe one more corner to be safe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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