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Ozzy

2019 NFL Draft Early top 250+

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I know it's preseason but the reason I know we have a future Franchise QB is because Baker processes as well as I've seen. He honestly looks similar to Drew Brees how he goes trough his progressions, very cerebral. Makes really good decisions

Edited by MSURacerDT55

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1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I know it's preseason but the reason I know we have a future Franchise QB is because Baker processes as well as I've seen. He honestly looks similar to Drew Brees how he goes trough his progressions, very cerebral. Makes really good decisions

Hey man, I assume this all was supposed to be posted on the Cleveland Browns board talking about Baker Mayfield and Genard Avery?  

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Just now, Ozzy said:

Hey man, I assume this all was supposed to be posted on the Cleveland Browns board talking about Baker Mayfield and Genard Avery?  

Wow, my bad. Must be the moonshine. I was wondering why I got no responses. My bad

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2 hours ago, NajeeNena said:

In regards to PFF I already gave my reasons for taking their stats, grades and analysis (they watch every play of every game and grade every player not just a select few, former NFL Players who played the position do the grading, consensus is used for final grading. My point is taking evaluations from a trusted source along with your own evaluations as well as other factors (size, length, competition level etc) would give a more complete picture. PFF has flaws and some misses of course they do but they also hit on a lot of players early before they hit everyone’s radar for example: they have been high on Risner for 3 years. They were high on Will Hernandez and Isaiah Wynn before they blew up during bowl games, Senior Bowl and NFL Combine. They are pretty spot on with a lot of prospects in my opinion.

In regards to Kansas State OL being one of the best in the Nation, I am not the only one that thinks that:

https://247sports.com/ContentGallery/College-footballs-top-positional-units-entering-2018-120507486/#120507486_1

In regards to Risner you say he is the only “Star” on the OL, so what in your eyes constitutes a “Star” first round pick? 

You also again went with “assumptions” and did not research when you said “Risner is the only star the rest have NEVER even been All Conferance even in the Big 12 much less nationally”

Scott Frantz: 2018 Preseason All Big 12, 2nd team (Athlon Sports)

2016 All Bowl Team (Associated Press and USA Today)

2015 Big 12 All Freshman Team (1st team)

Adam Holtorf: 2018 Preseason All  Big 12 (2nd team Athlon Sports)

2018 Rimington Watch List Nominee

Tyler Mitchell and Abdul Beecham: 2018 Preseason All Big 12 3rd team(Athlon Sports)

In regards to passing you are right Kansas State does not pass a lot (about 40% of the time per game) but that doesn’t mean they are not great pass blockers. If you watch their games you know that we don’t have elite receivers or an elite Qb so when we throw it takes “time” for the players to get open. I have seen K-State OL hold blocks for 5 seconds or more. That is an eternity in football passing game. As for Beecham again he is a legit 6”3” 315lbs, 33.5 Arms and 82 inch wingspan. His length is elite for Tackles and he is a guard. I don’t think his height will be an issue. Will Hernandez 6”2” Isaiah Wynn 6’3”. Also you are right about not much buzz or talk on Beecham in regards to NFL draft. However hopefully playing next to Risner who is on the radar will put some spotlight on Beecham and maybe he can come out of nowhere like Hernandez and Wynn.

In regards to Keyes and Alvarez being better than Beecham, that is your opinion. Beecham played the entire season including the bowl game vs UCLA with a completely torn labrum. He started every game and although his range of motion was restricted by a huge shoulder brace he still stood out to you and I have already posted what PFF has stated about him. He is completely healed and is destroying people in practice as he can go full speed and engage without his shoulder popping out. Just a little note on Alvarez. You stated you wanted to see what he could do after missing last season due to injury and you had him as a 4th round pick in 2019 draft.......no way. First he wasn’t injured he CHOSE to redshirt as a Senior because he could not beat out Wren at Center nor Powers or Samia at guard. He knew Wren would be gone so he thought he would automatically get the starting center spot this year. Well Creed Humphries has something to say about that. A friend of mine who is a Oklahoma insider told me Creed will be the starter when the season starts. Creed is bigger and more athletic and more in the mold of the type of player the OL Coach wants. Alvarez most likely won’t start on his own team and missed all last season voluntarily don’t see him getting drafted much less 4th round

In regards to Valentine he decided to not play any more and pursue his dream of becoming an Air Traffic Controller. His replacement will likely be Blaise Gammon(6”7” 260) and he can catch (hopefully we throw him some passes) Our FBs will most likely be Adam Harter(6’2” 245) or Luke Sowa (6’3” 235) Harter has nice hands he had 7 catches for 60 yards in the spring game. Sowa is more in the mold of Dimel. Sowa had 2 carries for 39 yards and TD in the spring game. Also watch out for Chabastian Taylor a 6”4” 230 specimen. He is a big bodied receiver who High points the ball and is a red zone match up nightmare. He had 5 catches for 118 yards and 2TDs in spring game. 

I think we will be fine with the loss of some key players if the new OC uses his weapons and opens up the offense a little 

To me making a Preseason team is not the same as making a All conference team after the season is complete obviously.  So you are throwing in preseason All Big 12 teams as being the same as 1st team all Big 12 after the season is over?  And an All Bowl Team, really?  And 1st teams predicted preseason by Athlon Sports?  Not the conference coaches and actual media themselves that specifically cover that conference?  Sure if you are just picking any media source that supports your claim one could find something, especially if preseason is acceptable which I feel is completely not compared to an actual end of season All conference team.  Not to mention including a preseason Rimington watch list?  That list has freaking 57 players on it, so every one of those guys are legit prospects because they are on that list?  Yes even Alvarez is on that list and you think he is a bad player who will not even start, but does that mean Alvarez is great because he is on the Rimington list, no and I rarely pay attention to those type of preseason lists.  Those lists help fans of certain teams and help the programs hype up their teams with preseason acclaim like that.  Sure there are some good players on that list yes but come on, 57 total, so clearly not that hard to make the list.

 

As for this website rating them as the #1 OL in college football on what, 247sports by a apparent poster who has posted "12385" times since 2014.  Not sure if he is a writer or just some guy.   Uses same argument you do with the PFF rating stats as proof Kansas State are the best across the board which I do not agree with.  Still in no way on earth is Kansas State's offensive line better and more talented top to bottom than Wisconsin or Stanford.  The talent level is not even close to being the same I feel.  Yes Risner is good but to call the rest these guys elite prospects, well I will have to wait and see because they are not there yet regardless of the all mighty PFF rankings.   Risner like I said is probably a guard in the NFL potentially, or arguably could be his best position, and Frantz I am not totally sold on him yet, where as Stanford on the other hand has three very legit NFL prospects who are all true tackles, and Wisconsin has one or two as well much less three pretty legit guards also.  

As for Alvarez, well again I do not have this inside information you do I guess.  I just knew he redshirted last year and it does not say why, and he was injured the previous two seasons because of injury so I assumed the same for last year.  I liked how he played when he was in there, will he play well this year, I would hope so.  Would think a year of learning and practicing would improve his play and get him to the level of at least a starter but will see. 

 

As for Beecham that is impressive if he played all last year with an injury, hopefully he can take it to another level this season.  But yes your opinion on him as for the entire Kansas State roster might be a little biased for obvious reasons.  Again the fact I even mentioned him is to his credit and pretty sure you would have a hard time finding many on here who even know who he is as a prospect, most would have no idea.  Hopefully he can play great this year along with Risner though, but going to hold off on the anointing just yet.

 

Kansas State is a very solid football program though for sure and Bill Snyder is a legend.  They have tough freaking dudes on that team year after year and they play physical fundamental football and that is to Snyder's credit.  They need to have the defense catch up to the offense a little more and then they might have a shot at being a really good football team.  With the talent on that defense currently that might take awhile, they have not been dominating on that side of the ball for awhile.  Watched one of my favorite teams on ESPN Classic tonight, the Kansas State team from 1998, that was a great football team with an outstanding defense and talent across the board.  Sadly things did not turn out in the end but damn they were talented, the game was against Texas A&M in the Big 12 championship, was a hard loss for them I am sure.

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Thanks for the response I enjoy reading your posts. However I want to respond to some of your assumptions and  arguments.

First YOU said no one on Kansas State has  EVER been selected or nominated for All Conferance or National awards. I proved that you were incorrect. You never specified parameters or “criteria” such as no preseason or Coaches nominations only.  So question? In your opinion only Conferance Coaches nominations count? I gave you Athlon Sports a very respected National Magazine who does a extremely in depth analysis and breakdown of every College team (go grab a Magazine and see for yourself) I gave you media (Associated Press and USA Today) as for the Rimington list again you said no one was nominated or selected for anything Conferance wise or Nationally......yet now you try and change the narrative to state those nominations mean nothing? Also 57 selections out of how many total players playing Center?  There are 255 teams in FBS and FCS let’s assume each team has at minimum 2 centers on the roster. That is 510 centers so only 57 get nominated that is 11%. So I think that is a nice accomplishment for all the players nominated. So your statement that it is not difficult to make the list is false in my opinion. Also I think Alvarez is a solid player (he just couldn’t beat out players on his team) and he made the list I believe because of his previous accomplishments which is how I see the majority of these lists are conducted. Very rarely do you see efforts put into seeing if a player got better, took some steps back or a new player emerged to deserve a nomination. That is why yes I am biased to PFF. I know of no other National platform who’s sole job is to evaluate and watch every game, every play and every player. How much fairer can you get than that?

 

As for the All Bowl team the reason Scott Frantz made that team was because he shut down the #1 NFL Draft pick Miles Garrett when we played Texas A&M in the Texas Bowl in Houston. Zero sacks and ONE tackle for Garrett the ENTIRE GAME. We also beat Texas A&M for the game.

In regards to your comments about the Coaches All Conferance Teams. Well one thing I do know is very rarely do the HC sits down and fills out a All Conferance team list. They can’t nominate or vote for their own players and many just give this duty to an assistant or even a GA. Also these lists are very biased. Everyone assumes atleast in the Big 12 that Oklahoma and Texas must occupy the majority of the lists. There is NO WAY that these Head Coaches are sitting down at the end of the season and watching film and evaluating all these players and different positions. Bill Snyder is 1000% not doing that and I would imagine 90% of the other HCs do not as well. So putting more weight on Coaches nominations vs media outlets and magazines whose sole purpose is evaluation and who actually watch the games is incorrect in my opinion. Oh yes just a note. I follow on Twitter a current Veteran NFL Scout. He has stated repeatedly that NFL scouts could care less about college awards....why? Because each NFL team has a small army of scouts and they do their own evaluations, they watch the film and they do their own stats (they don’t trust others) 

As for the 247 list on best OL. I get it Wisconsin plays in the Big 10 and Stanford   In PAC 12 and both have a nice history of getting OL in the league. Also people hear Kansas State and just automatically assume they are not talented just a bunch of hard nosed overachievers whom Coach Snyder has molded into serviceable D1 players. I admit I haven’t watched many Wisconsin or Stanford games but we did play Stanford two years ago and more than held our own. Again opinions, we all have one. You say Kansas State OL is most likely a top 10 unit but no where close to Wisconsin and Stanford and no where near the talent level.....why? Because Stanford and Wisconsin players were 4 and 5 stars out of high school? Stars mean nothing once you get to College. Risner was a 3 Star, Beecham was a 3 Star yet both are on your list for 2019 Draft. Again opinions we all have them. Regardless of how you feel about other media or people who post lists, there are others who feel Kansas State has one of the best OL in the Nation. Also I could have posted other lists showing that. They were Top 10 in 2017 as well. 

Also I never said the other players on our OL were “elite” and the term you used was “Star” so i asked “what is a Star in your eyes?” “ a first round pick?” I asked that because if that is your criteria then most teams including Wisconsin and Stanford have 1 or zero stars. That was the point I was trying to make.

As for Kansas State and Beecham yes of course I am biased. Although believe it or not I am a Alabama native. Roll Damn Tide!  I will only root against Bama if they ever play Kansas State when Beecham is still on the team.......that ain’t gonna happen so I am good lol. 

Thanks for the well wishes for Beecham. Yes he is an unknown to most NFL scouts and teams. I never heard of Will Hernandez until the Senior Bowl and the NFL Combine so it can happen (go from unknown to possible draft pick) playing next to Risner can’t hurt and if he performs to his ability and they way we all think he will, I am sure after watching him this season he will climb up your board significantly.  Just a note we play 14th ranked Mississippi State the second game of the season in Manhattan (11am game). They have THREE SEC All Conferance DL and all 3 are projected to be high NFL draft picks (Jeffery Simmons, Montez Sweat, Gerri Green) so the opportunity for our OL on National TV in a huge Big12 vs SEC  game is there. 

Finally an excellent take on K-State defense. Hardest hit on DL and LB. Trey Dishon will have to step up and try and emulate Will “troll under the bridge” Geary. Reggie Walker had a sophomore slump after being named the Freshman Defensive Player of the year in the Big 12 at DE so he will have to step up as well. We have two athletic and fast LB (Patton and Sullivan) though not as cerebral as last years LB we should be faster and more athletic. The DBs with Goolsby, Kendall Adams, leading they way should be solid. New D Coordinator waiting to see the changes he makes. 

 

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10 hours ago, NajeeNena said:

Thanks for the response I enjoy reading your posts. However I want to respond to some of your assumptions and  arguments.

First YOU said no one on Kansas State has  EVER been selected or nominated for All Conferance or National awards. I proved that you were incorrect. You never specified parameters or “criteria” such as no preseason or Coaches nominations only.  So question? In your opinion only Conferance Coaches nominations count? I gave you Athlon Sports a very respected National Magazine who does a extremely in depth analysis and breakdown of every College team (go grab a Magazine and see for yourself) I gave you media (Associated Press and USA Today) as for the Rimington list again you said no one was nominated or selected for anything Conferance wise or Nationally......yet now you try and change the narrative to state those nominations mean nothing? Also 57 selections out of how many total players playing Center?  There are 255 teams in FBS and FCS let’s assume each team has at minimum 2 centers on the roster. That is 510 centers so only 57 get nominated that is 11%. So I think that is a nice accomplishment for all the players nominated. So your statement that it is not difficult to make the list is false in my opinion. Also I think Alvarez is a solid player (he just couldn’t beat out players on his team) and he made the list I believe because of his previous accomplishments which is how I see the majority of these lists are conducted. Very rarely do you see efforts put into seeing if a player got better, took some steps back or a new player emerged to deserve a nomination. That is why yes I am biased to PFF. I know of no other National platform who’s sole job is to evaluate and watch every game, every play and every player. How much fairer can you get than that?

 

As for the All Bowl team the reason Scott Frantz made that team was because he shut down the #1 NFL Draft pick Miles Garrett when we played Texas A&M in the Texas Bowl in Houston. Zero sacks and ONE tackle for Garrett the ENTIRE GAME. We also beat Texas A&M for the game.

In regards to your comments about the Coaches All Conferance Teams. Well one thing I do know is very rarely do the HC sits down and fills out a All Conferance team list. They can’t nominate or vote for their own players and many just give this duty to an assistant or even a GA. Also these lists are very biased. Everyone assumes atleast in the Big 12 that Oklahoma and Texas must occupy the majority of the lists. There is NO WAY that these Head Coaches are sitting down at the end of the season and watching film and evaluating all these players and different positions. Bill Snyder is 1000% not doing that and I would imagine 90% of the other HCs do not as well. So putting more weight on Coaches nominations vs media outlets and magazines whose sole purpose is evaluation and who actually watch the games is incorrect in my opinion. Oh yes just a note. I follow on Twitter a current Veteran NFL Scout. He has stated repeatedly that NFL scouts could care less about college awards....why? Because each NFL team has a small army of scouts and they do their own evaluations, they watch the film and they do their own stats (they don’t trust others) 

As for the 247 list on best OL. I get it Wisconsin plays in the Big 10 and Stanford   In PAC 12 and both have a nice history of getting OL in the league. Also people hear Kansas State and just automatically assume they are not talented just a bunch of hard nosed overachievers whom Coach Snyder has molded into serviceable D1 players. I admit I haven’t watched many Wisconsin or Stanford games but we did play Stanford two years ago and more than held our own. Again opinions, we all have one. You say Kansas State OL is most likely a top 10 unit but no where close to Wisconsin and Stanford and no where near the talent level.....why? Because Stanford and Wisconsin players were 4 and 5 stars out of high school? Stars mean nothing once you get to College. Risner was a 3 Star, Beecham was a 3 Star yet both are on your list for 2019 Draft. Again opinions we all have them. Regardless of how you feel about other media or people who post lists, there are others who feel Kansas State has one of the best OL in the Nation. Also I could have posted other lists showing that. They were Top 10 in 2017 as well. 

Also I never said the other players on our OL were “elite” and the term you used was “Star” so i asked “what is a Star in your eyes?” “ a first round pick?” I asked that because if that is your criteria then most teams including Wisconsin and Stanford have 1 or zero stars. That was the point I was trying to make.

As for Kansas State and Beecham yes of course I am biased. Although believe it or not I am a Alabama native. Roll Damn Tide!  I will only root against Bama if they ever play Kansas State when Beecham is still on the team.......that ain’t gonna happen so I am good lol. 

Thanks for the well wishes for Beecham. Yes he is an unknown to most NFL scouts and teams. I never heard of Will Hernandez until the Senior Bowl and the NFL Combine so it can happen (go from unknown to possible draft pick) playing next to Risner can’t hurt and if he performs to his ability and they way we all think he will, I am sure after watching him this season he will climb up your board significantly.  Just a note we play 14th ranked Mississippi State the second game of the season in Manhattan (11am game). They have THREE SEC All Conferance DL and all 3 are projected to be high NFL draft picks (Jeffery Simmons, Montez Sweat, Gerri Green) so the opportunity for our OL on National TV in a huge Big12 vs SEC  game is there. 

Finally an excellent take on K-State defense. Hardest hit on DL and LB. Trey Dishon will have to step up and try and emulate Will “troll under the bridge” Geary. Reggie Walker had a sophomore slump after being named the Freshman Defensive Player of the year in the Big 12 at DE so he will have to step up as well. We have two athletic and fast LB (Patton and Sullivan) though not as cerebral as last years LB we should be faster and more athletic. The DBs with Goolsby, Kendall Adams, leading they way should be solid. New D Coordinator waiting to see the changes he makes. 

 

You are obviously new to this board if you think I follow high school recruiting rankings and base NFL projections off of star rankings out of high school.  I have no clue what star rating anyone on Wisconsin or Stanford was coming out of high school.  I do not view them as very talented O-Lines and solid prospects because they play for those specific schools, that would be just stupid.  It is based on talent they have show from me watching them play.  I have went into depth about all the talented players on both of those lines, just have to look back into this thread a little, so I will not do it again now.  K-State is not close to them because the quality of players they have across the line compared to K-State which does not have that type of quality and talent I feel.  The upside and potential for some of the lineman on Stanford and Wisconsin is by far higher than guys on K-State outside of Risner.  Will see, maybe they will run over everyone this year with that line, but I doubt it.  Will be fun to watch what happens.

 

So you proved me incorrect by saying these guys have a preseason award as if that is even an award at all?  It is preseason, maybe some might consider that an accomplishment but pretty sure no one has in their house hanging a plaque that says Preseason All Big 12 3rd team presented by Athlon Sports.  But who knows maybe some do sadly, but I would never.

 

Again I like to go into things fresh and not be told who to watch or who to like because of this or that stat.  But some like to read up on things like you apparently do to prove a point or gain information to save time, that is fine I guess.  Sure hope you do not pay $200 a year to get PFF information, which is largely fantasy football based, if you do pay go right ahead I guess.  PS I absolutely hate fantasy football and everything it stands for.  Does brings fans who do not give a rip to watch the games and or buy tickets so for the NFL it is great, in some ways it completely disregards any sense of defense though as if that does not matter during the games.  

 

It will be fun to watch K-State against Mississippi State for sure, is probably the best DL talent they will face all season, that or Texas or maybe TCU I would say potentially.  Also great Snyder signed a 5 year extension which is crazy, no idea how he is doing that at his age but obviously is good at what he does and knows how to coach football.  Nuts how lost that program was the little he was gone, now that he has been back for awhile they are solid and play good sound football again.

 

I follow Alabama very closely for obvious reasons and I am a fan of how they play football and how coach Saban coaches defense.  Having a team that is tough with a defense first identity I love and can always relate to a good solid defensive team who is tough, give me a low scoring defensive battle any day of this easy scoring 50-45 game.  Also helps Alabama are usually year in and year out the most talented team in the nation.  Even with losing basically every defensive back starter from last year, they are ready to reload all over again with some more very talented players.  I follow some teams very closely but I enjoy watching all of them honestly and getting a broad perspective on things and current talent levels around the nation.  

 

 

Edited by Ozzy

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Again thanks for the reply. I want to respond to your post and also ask you a few questions. 

Yes I am new to the board (I stated that in my very first post) also I was asking a question when I stated “do you value some players over others because they play for higher profile programs that regularly get top HS players with allot of stars?” Never stated that is how you came to yours evaluations. You keep stating that Risner is the only star on the team and I kept asking you what is your criteria for a star player ? I assume it is what you personally see when studying film, regular season and post season awards esp Coaches nominations,upside and potential and I guess NFL draft potential. Could you briefly explain your method?

Also to demean preseason awards well I guess that is your progative. The awards are based on previous season performance. Also many on your draft list are on Athlons Preseason list. So I guess it’s pretty accurate. 

Also no I do not pay for PFF. The information I get is readly available to all for free. Also you are incorrect in your assumptions about how they come up with their evaluations. I wont go into details (you can research yourself) but I briefly stated the main parts (watch every play of every game of every player by ex NFL players who played the position they evaluate) so I get you want your own evaluations by your own eyes that’s cool but again I ask what is your method of evaluating players? What are your keys and what are you looking for when watching a player?

Also I was curious (since you are so high on Stanford and Wisconsin) of how Kansas State compared with irrefutable facts. 

Stanford has a legit Heisman Canidate in Bryce Love and two of the best TEs in the Nation. Wisconsin has one of the top RBs in the Nation in Johnathan Taylor and stud QB Alex Hornibrook. Kansas State has no one at those positions even close to that talent

Yet Kansas State was just as good in most Offensive categories as both:

Stanford:

32 points per game

262 rush per game (5.9 avg)

196 passing 

Wisconsin.

33 points per game

222 rush per game (5.0 avg)

128 passing

Kansas State:

32 points per game

198 rushing per game (5.0 avg)

178 passing

Kansas State did this with much less talents at RB and QB. Also interesting when you look at the schedules. I believe outside of playing Michigan and Ohio State, Wisconsin had the easier schedule of the three. Also interesting that Kansas  State played 3 opponents who were ranked in the final poll and one was a CFP team(Oklahoma, TCU, Oklahoma State) Stanford played two (USC, Washington) and Wisconsin played two( Ohio State and Northwestern)

Based On all of this one could argue Kansas State was more efficient with far less talent at RB and QB and they played more ranked teams and a tougher or just as tough schedule. I think this speaks volumes of how good the Kansas State OL was.

So in closing if you do not mind can you explain your background? Are you a former College player? Coach? Scout? Sports writer? Also again what is your method for evaluations other than watching some film on some players? 

For me I am just a fan who loves college football. I like to see various opinions and I love detailed stats. I think that along with watching film gives a more complete picture on a player. 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, NajeeNena said:

Again thanks for the reply. I want to respond to your post and also ask you a few questions. 

Yes I am new to the board (I stated that in my very first post) also I was asking a question when I stated “do you value some players over others because they play for higher profile programs that regularly get top HS players with allot of stars?” Never stated that is how you came to yours evaluations. You keep stating that Risner is the only star on the team and I kept asking you what is your criteria for a star player ? I assume it is what you personally see when studying film, regular season and post season awards esp Coaches nominations,upside and potential and I guess NFL draft potential. Could you briefly explain your method?

Also to demean preseason awards well I guess that is your progative. The awards are based on previous season performance. Also many on your draft list are on Athlons Preseason list. So I guess it’s pretty accurate. 

Also no I do not pay for PFF. The information I get is readly available to all for free. Also you are incorrect in your assumptions about how they come up with their evaluations. I wont go into details (you can research yourself) but I briefly stated the main parts (watch every play of every game of every player by ex NFL players who played the position they evaluate) so I get you want your own evaluations by your own eyes that’s cool but again I ask what is your method of evaluating players? What are your keys and what are you looking for when watching a player?

Also I was curious (since you are so high on Stanford and Wisconsin) of how Kansas State compared with irrefutable facts. 

Stanford has a legit Heisman Canidate in Bryce Love and two of the best TEs in the Nation. Wisconsin has one of the top RBs in the Nation in Johnathan Taylor and stud QB Alex Hornibrook. Kansas State has no one at those positions even close to that talent

Yet Kansas State was just as good in most Offensive categories as both:

Stanford:

32 points per game

262 rush per game (5.9 avg)

196 passing 

Wisconsin.

33 points per game

222 rush per game (5.0 avg)

128 passing

Kansas State:

32 points per game

198 rushing per game (5.0 avg)

178 passing

Kansas State did this with much less talents at RB and QB. Also interesting when you look at the schedules. I believe outside of playing Michigan and Ohio State, Wisconsin had the easier schedule of the three. Also interesting that Kansas  State played 3 opponents who were ranked in the final poll and one was a CFP team(Oklahoma, TCU, Oklahoma State) Stanford played two (USC, Washington) and Wisconsin played two( Ohio State and Northwestern)

Based On all of this one could argue Kansas State was more efficient with far less talent at RB and QB and they played more ranked teams and a tougher or just as tough schedule. I think this speaks volumes of how good the Kansas State OL was.

So in closing if you do not mind can you explain your background? Are you a former College player? Coach? Scout? Sports writer? Also again what is your method for evaluations other than watching some film on some players? 

For me I am just a fan who loves college football. I like to see various opinions and I love detailed stats. I think that along with watching film gives a more complete picture on a player. 

 

 

 

I do not have a mathematical equation to determine which prospects are good and which ones are not.  Like giving each a 88.6 rating or whatever and so on down then grouping them on that logic.  I have never done things that way, but is easy to make a graph and go like this and makes it look all professional or something if that is what you call professional.  

Walker Little Stanford  85.6
Trey Smith Tennessee  85.2
Mekhi Becton Louisville  75.3
Devery Hamilton Stanford RS 72.3
Alex Leatherwood Alabama 70.0
Alaric Jackson Iowa RS 69.6

 

I just do not do that, if you feel you want a numerical grade might want to look somewhere else.  As for Wisconsin and Stanford, so them having elite offensive lines has to do with their skill position players?  What?  Ever think that, sure they might look good based on the RB back there, or instead they themselves make that RB or skill position player look good?  It is a two way street, both have something to do with it.  Let us not even discuss the Big 12 defensive units especially last year was flat out awful outside of one or two teams, doubt K-State could move the ball that well in the Big Ten or SEC consistently but will see how they do this year. Across the board TCU is the only team ranked in the top 20 and they are 19th last year in overall defense, Texas and Iowa State are just outside of 40th ranked and clearly no one in the top 15 for the Big 12 defensively and that has been consistent over the past few years.  Sure they have "good offenses" in that conference like Oklahoma and Oklahoma State but generally it is a poor defensive conference usually without many if any real solid defensive teams.

Again I do not feel Wisconsin and Stanford O-lines are overrated and not properly evaluated because the skill position guys make them look good.  The lineman physically have the attributes one wants and are physically larger than the K-State guys generally.  Sure length and height is not everything but yeah give me the 6-7 320 tackle over the 6-4 290 tackle as a physical specimen alone.  A prospects play can change that narrative of course, but it does help having the impressive size to go with the skill set.  Does seem kind of pointless though, arguing with you over this when you yourself has barely watched the offensive line prospects on Stanford or Wisconsin unless they play K-State.

 

 

I have been following College Football and ranking prospects since around 1998 and have been doing it every year, got more serious into college. I did major in Sports Studies in college focusing on coaching/scouting. Did want to get into scouting but never got that chance to do so professionally.   But never wanted to let it go so just for fun on the side and follow College Football consistently since then.  I rank players based on how I see them, watch a game, mark down what players I like based on how they move, look and what kind of plays they can make on the field.  Then catalog them by class and rank them accordingly as the season goes on compared to others I have seen.  Usually start a list each year with FR, SOPH, JR and SR prospects.  Currently have that list right now and have a few players on the FR group based on Spring Ball play only not high school rankings coming out.   Then the SOPH group and so on which was basically last years prospect I saw and liked.   As the year goes on that list with change and I will add certain players to it and move the ranking around.  That list I feel are the players who have a shot at being NFL prospects.  That is how I created this early 7 round Mock draft list was based on players I already had in my rankings.  Usually watch around 15-25 games a weekend all year and catch up on things at times in the summer and get familiar with the new rosters and all the changes and transfers.  

It is based on me watching the games and isolating players to focus on and comparing their movements, abilities and physical appearance to other solid players at that position currently and in the past.  Seeing who stands out and who is a rare prospect potentially with rare abilities.  Like some others, I can watch a player for just a few plays and see pretty quickly how elite they might be based on how they move and look out there.  I do not have the time or the ability to go to all of these games live, sure that would add to it.  Right now it is all based on watching on TV or a clip online to remember how they move if it has been awhile since I last saw them, and my viewpoint I get from that.  It is a different viewpoint in person for sure and different angles to see them at which would help, that would add some to the evaluation no doubt.  Much less if one was able to just be around some of the players and hear them talk and interact, that also would provide a great deal of information about them as well and their personality and persona in general.  One can see some of that even on TV or watching interviews but sometimes people act differently when cameras are not around or when they are not being watched.  Do try to watch how they react on the field and the sidelines during the game though which is important, not just watching a clip show of play after play without the inbetween action that can occur with how they act.

 

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Again thanks for your reply and for explaining a little bit more in depth of your ranking and evaluation process. 

I admire your dedication (20 years of doing this) with the players and games you have watched and the catalogs you have, you should explore being an NFL Scout.

Now back to your post. I never stated Wisconsin nor Stanford was not elite OL’s. I was making the point that Kansas State was just as good. I pointed out that with such elite RBs you would think their rushing yards per game and avg per rush would be much higher and not basically the same as Kansas State. All three OL’s are good.

Also Will make it a point this weekend to watch both Wisconsin and Stanford 2017 games (I have on demand) 

As for your comments on Big 12 defenses. First I believe that now especially in CFB great offense beat great defense most times. Also state you don’t like or use a numerical value yet you use just that (defensive rankings) to help your points about weak Big 12 defense? 

Indiana has a higher ranked defense (27) than the entire Big 12 except TCU (19) yet Indiana was 5-7. I believe many teams in the Big 12 would beat them handily.

Also Purdue went 7-6 in the Big 10 and Iowa went 8-5. Nebraska was 4-8, Maryland 4-8, Indiana 5-7, Minnesota 5-7 and Illinois 2-10. I think Kansas State could compete in the Big 10 esp since every team doesn’t play each other every year.  In 2017 Wisconsin did not have to play Penn State nor Michigan State. 

In closing after reading your evaluation methods it seems similar to me as PFF except you don’t assign numerical grades and you don’t have the capibility nor the resources to watch every play of every player of every CFB game like PFF can. 

No need to reply or continue this thread. I will continue to look for your posts about 2019 draft rankings and prospects and your evaluations of players and or teams.

Thanks for some healthy discussions. If I came off as argumentative I apologize that was not my intent. I look forward to some great CFB games and your thoughts and comments on players and games throughout the season .

 

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