Mind Character Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 The following teams were the top 3 Pass Rushing teams as measured in DVOA Pass Rushing Efficiency Index which includes Sacks, Pressures, Hurries, etc.. https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl 1. Pittsburgh Steelers **As they run a 34, they are not as comparable to us as their pass rush accumulated rushing results from both 34 DE (Cam Heyward w/ 12 sacks) and LB spots (Vince Williams w/ 8 sacks, TJ Watt w/ 7 sacks, Bud Dupree w/ 6 sacks, and Anthony Chickillo w/ 4 sacks). 2. Jacksonville Jaguars This year, Jacksonville had Calais Campbell w/ 14.5 sacks, Dante Fowler w/ 8 sacks, and Yannick Ngakoue w/ 12 sacks. Guess what? Fowler the one with the lowest sack totals was often the starter.....who cares who starts! What happens next year if one of them is hurt for a large portion of games? Their exceptional league leading outside pass rush will then just be really good to great. That's what we're trying to accomplish....we want to become a force on the field. 3. Carolina Panthers This year, in terms of outside rushers the Panthers had Maro Addison w/ 11 sacks, Julius Peppers w/ 11 sacks, Wes Horton w/ 5.5 sacks, and based off of snap count Kawauan Short had 4.5 of his 7.5 sacks when they kicked him outside in order to bring Brian Love in as an inside DT. -------------------------- 17. Cleveland Browns We were 17th in the league in terms of pass rushing efficiency. Our two starting DEs both have experienced injury, and one of them (Emmanuel Ogbah) is more so an effective run player, is still raw, and struggles sometimes to make an impact in the pass rush by himself. BUT according to Browns fans..."NO WORRIES, our pass rush is all good....Myles and Ogbah will be healthy going forward, Ogbah will certainly make the jump and be the guy, and Chris Smith and Nassib will be good enough to round out a great pass rushing unit, if all else fails just take a pass rusher later in the draft as they definitely exists" (NOT!) This line of logic makes zero sense at all. Our unit could be Myles Garrett with 15 sacks, Bradley Chubb with 10 sacks, Emmanuel Ogbah with 7 sacks, and Chris Smith with 6 sacks. --------------- The Eagles defense showed us that 3 pass rushers (Brandon Graham, Derek Barnett, and Chris Long) is even better when it comes to playoff time. Teams like the Steelers and Panthers got it done with 4 pass rushers. -------------- Why does discussion of Chubb always turn into a Chubb OR Ogbah debate about why we shouldn't replace a guy that averages 5 sacks a season and shows some promise. That's not how football works...there are snaps available to have a forceful pass rushing unit consisting of up to 4 outside rushers. It's about having Ogbah AND Chubb as You need 3 or 4 outside pass rushers to have an elite pass rush during a full football season. The top 5 pass rushing teams every year are constructed like that. Selecting Bradley Chubb doesn't replace Emmanuel Ogbah, but it adds to a potent pass rushing core unit, and provides depth if a player should get injured and miss significant time. Look what became of our pass rush with Ogbah playing without Myles Garrett when Myles was injured. Look what became of our pass rush with Myles playing without Emmanuel Ogbah when Ogbah was injured. What is so hard to understand about this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatgerman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Can I get an Amen?!! Yes! My man. Totally my feeling on the subject. Top position is QB, second is PASS RUSH! Can NEVER have enough pass rush. Just saw in another thread someone suggest Chubb at 4 and Mo Hurst at 35: yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Fwiw, @Mind Character, though many felt this way early on, I've noticed many (like myself) having heard the argument both ways and came to the conclusion that a pass rusher is definitely on the table when it comes to our number 4 pick in the draft. I love Barkley, and I can see Chubb being great as well. Man, it would be a dream to trade down for good compensation to Denver and get our guy at number 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Here here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 21 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: Fwiw, @Mind Character, though many felt this way early on, I've noticed many (like myself) having heard the argument both ways and came to the conclusion that a pass rusher is definitely on the table when it comes to our number 4 pick in the draft. I love Barkley, and I can see Chubb being great as well. Man, it would be a dream to trade down for good compensation to Denver and get our guy at number 5. I think this is everyone’s dream right now. That is the ultimate scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt27j Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 All things considered 34 was pretty good. Injuries, youth, bad offense, corners, 0-16. Greg Williams is the reason for that number. Should improve due to experience and health alone. Say round 38. Most top rushers miss maybe 1 series a half. The reality is that taking Chubb means Ogbah would most likely not get a 2nd contract here. I believe in Ogbah, but I don't think he's going to develop the technique Chubb already has. In a way it can be seen as just another lateral move but it'd still be an improvement at a critical position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 So what’s the argument? Draft or sign a pass rusher? I don’t think anyone in this forum is against that. I just personally don’t want to spend pick #4 on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownie man Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 lets build a culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 If there was another pass rusher in the draft worth a crap then I would accept drafting Barkley, but there is not so if we stay at #4 Bradley Chubb is my #1 target period. Fans have suddenly started to balloon up this draft when it reality it is still incredibly weak and has been since day 1. Pass rushers and Corners in the 2nd round are going to be a bunch of jags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrownsman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 22 minutes ago, brownie man said: lets build a culture Love this. 2007 - Strahan 6'-5" 275lbs 9 sacks, Umenyiora 6'-3" 280lbs 13 Sacks, Tuck 6'-5" 270 10 sacks all played DE...Tuck rotating in to DT from time to time I could see Garrett 6'-4" 272, Chubb 6'-4" 269 and Ogbah 6'-4" 275 be an excellent rotation with Ogbah or Chubb moving in to DT from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FEARtheELF Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I am now more open to the idea of Chubb or trading back IF Buffalo offers the farm of 12,22,53,56, 1st next year. I would try to use 12+64 to move up for Ward and 22+53+mid round pick to move up for Davenport or Edmunds. AS much as I would like Chubb if I KNEW I was getting Ward, Davenport/EDmunds, AND a 1st next year I think I would have to take it. Either way I love the options. Thanks again Sashi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Get a bunch of big and athletic dudes who can get after a QB. Pass rusher is the 2nd most important position in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GongKong Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Always draft to strength. Bill Walsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 The talent to draft to DL strength is in next year's draft, and then some, but not in this one. I'd modify Walsh's statement in this context to: Draft to the strength in the draft. But apart from RB, I am not sure what that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas5737 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I don't know if we need an identity as much as we need a win. Loading up in a certain area is good but not at the sacrifice of staying weak at other areas. I'm not offering an idea or saying which is wrong or right that all depends on coaching evaluations and such but I won't be mad if they select Chubb/Barkley/other as long as they project them to be good players and the most valuable option to the team when they make the pick. Garrett and Ogbah are both still really young and should get better with experience. Ogbah wasn't asked (or at least didn't do it) much to rush from the edge. He was mostly coming inside which helped a lot with run defense and he did get some sacks but not a lot of pressures. Garrett was steady edge and got some sacks and a lot of pressures. I don't know what we are asking of our ends other than what I see but if we don't want to be aggressive on each edge i'm not sure there would be a whole lot of value at that pick taking an end. If we do want to primarily attack the QB from the edges someone is going to have to pick up the slack in the run game. I'd like to see a more aggressive pass rush scheme but depending on whether or not that is in our future correlates to whether or not I'd like to see Chubb at #4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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