MarkPrice25 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Completely agree. Darnold at 1, Chubb at 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, MarkPrice25 said: Completely agree. Darnold at 1, Chubb at 4 You are ruling out a trade down from #4 and its value, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPrice25 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 1 hour ago, bruceb said: You are ruling out a trade down from #4 and its value, yes? It's a matter of weighing the benefits of the two scenarios: having potentially two franchise caliber pass rushers (and another good one, too) can completely transform a team and give opposing offenses headaches for years to come. With a trade down you're getting a lot of ammunition to work with, but it depends on what we get from it. I completely understand the logic of a trade down, especially if a team gets desperate for one of the remaining QBs, but it all depends on what we get in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Whats hard about the concept is that the NYG just traded JPP and Gettlemen has seriously drafted a D-Linemen in the 1st or 2nd round every year for the past 1,000 years. It all points to the NYG to take Chubb #2 and Im super sad about it because if hes not there at #4 there is not another prospect Im in love with that pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatgerman Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 6 hours ago, bruceb said: The talent to draft to DL strength is in next year's draft, and then some, but not in this one. I'd modify Walsh's statement in this context to: Draft to the strength in the draft. But apart from RB, I am not sure what that is. This draft is strong at RB, DB, and QB. Solid groups are interior OL, interior DL, TE, and LB. Worst groups are WR, OT, Edge, and towel boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GongKong Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 11 hours ago, bruceb said: The talent to draft to DL strength is in next year's draft, and then some, but not in this one. I'd modify Walsh's statement in this context to: Draft to the strength in the draft. But apart from RB, I am not sure what that is. He meant draft to the strength of your team. If you have good WRS draft WRs. Your team is built around that strength. Like steelers with LB. If you draft to the strength of your team, you will be better able to scout what fits/works. I get what you are saying, but you completely missed the point. It's a strategy about opposite what most fans advocate, most teams don't do it, and it makes total sense from a team building concept. A few things you need. One) stability is schemes and preferably coaches but most importantly schemes to have she scheme fit for players you bring in. Two) strength of a unit. You need a position group that you actually scheme for as they are actually good. This is not something Browns have seen in ages and ages. Regardless of delusional fans saying how good home team players are every year. We don't have talent on this team let alone a group that you can build a team around. Now that doesn't mean it's hopeless. DL certainly looks less awful, so getting some strong DL players would be important. Doesn't have yo be Chubb. There will certainly be other DL players that can impact a game aside from Chubb available with all out other picks. As far as trade down, well Browns need talent and elite talent to actually win games which they have not been successful at since hair bands played stadiums. So we have cap room and a lot of draft assets. Let's use the vast majority of those to get elite talent. Including at 4. You can't tell me there is no game changer at 4 we couldn't take vs a trade down to net more draft assets we will never actually use to try and actually win games. My stated goal is 8 and 8. Once there we actually have some hope to not be Browns abomination every single year forever. 8 and 8. Right now this is a 0 to 2 win team. 4 wins is huge overachievement. And there is not really arguing about that considering the teams win loss record last every single year for 25 plus years. So what should a potential 4 win team do? Get elite players as many as they can. Or get more assets to get players in the future and prolly not even get 4 wins? If you don't get 4 to 6 wins chances are higher everyone gets fired or has max one more year in 19/20 before the ax man cometh and the cycle of stupid starts again. So, I say draft elite talent right now and work toward 8 and 8. Which is my hope can happen is 2020. 8 and 8. That would be a giant step forward for this horrific franchise. Giant step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 We don't have to draft Chubb to attain this, thats all guys.We could draft any of these guys and take on the same Identity. I don't get why we have to draft Chubb only to achieve that identity Marcus Davenport Arden Key Duke Ejiofor Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Josh Sweat Tyquan Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buno67 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 38 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said: We don't have to draft Chubb to attain this, thats all guys.We could draft any of these guys and take on the same Identity. I don't get why we have to draft Chubb only to achieve that identity Marcus Davenport Arden Key Duke Ejiofor Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Josh Sweat Tyquan Lewis No love for Hubbard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, buno67 said: No love for Hubbard? I forgot him, Him too, heck as well as Tyquan Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: We don't have to draft Chubb to attain this, thats all guys.We could draft any of these guys and take on the same Identity. I don't get why we have to draft Chubb only to achieve that identity Marcus Davenport Arden Key Duke Ejiofor Ogbonnia Okoronkwo Josh Sweat Tyquan Lewis Seriously?? Because.... 1.) Most of that list either is better suited for the 34 defense (Ogbonnia Okoronkwo is a true 34 OLB with zero 43 DE pro future, Arden Key is better standing up on film, Marcus Davenport entire film has him standing up and he may struggle from a 3 point stance), 2.) Their film is pedestrian (Duke Ejiofor, Tyquan Lewis) and isn't close to that of an impact player like Chubb's 3.) Or their film literally resembles toilet water (Arden Key more so, Josh Sweat) Best Film out of the Bunch & Only One that May Equal Up to Chubb in Terms of Impact Marcus Davenport: However, as stated before, he plays in a 2 point stand up stance, lacks technique and hand usage, and isn't the natural run stopper and pass rusher that Chubb is right now. I do believe in Davenport's upside, but he's not on Chubb's level right now imo. Hell to the Nah Nah Arden Key simply has some of the worst tape out there. His energy and feet die if the first move doesn't work. He sleeps on olineman until the whistles over when things get too aggressive, he has bad eyes, he doesn't have the shock or punch power in his hands to set an edge in the run or to convert speed to power on a pass rush. He's lacks the technique and leverage skills to win from a 3pt stance...He's probably best suited in the 34. His inconsistent motor, energy, and off field issues are so suspect that taking him because of his prototypical (height,weight, size) traits is like Burning Money you found on the ground somewhere. He's like Robert Nkemdiche but worse...taking them late 1st or early 2nd is a wasted pick as they'll burn out of the league in 3 years or so with no impact. I've made my points on Josh Sweat's tape before...here: ------- So, I'm not sure how you can basically say "We can draft another DE and still have the identity Chubb will give us"........ when those other DEs film (Outside of Marcus Davenport) shows IMO that they lack the ability to be true impact players whose skills are far deficient when it comes to Bradley Chubb's abilities. I could maybe see the argument for Davenport, but the rest of those guys are JAGS. I do like Hubbard (he did have a terrible 10-yard split of 1.78; and a 40 yard dash of 4.98 hand timed) and Tyquan Lewis on film, but their no more than solid rotational players. You can't create that identity with lesser talents. To have a pass rushing identity, one needs 3 pass rushers that can impact the game as DE1 threats. We have 1 in Garrett...and the jury is out on Ogbah...bringing Chubb in would give us another DE1 threat imo to a lesser extent compared to Myles Garrett...Ogbah would be the 3rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheeRealDeal Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 yeah that list is pretty darned bad. I would take a gamble on Jayln Holmes before I took Lewis or Hubbard as well. This pass rush class sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I'm convincing myself that if Chubb is there at #4 we are taking him based on our free agent signings. We don't have a stud lockdown corner but we've already added 3 guys who are capable of getting on the field. Thinking of Greg Williams scheme, slouching the corners off in a zone, I can see us rotating those guys through and letting our d-line do the work hopefully creating turnovers and preventing touchdowns. I still don't really like the scheme but since that's what we are rolling with it makes sense to draft Chubb over a secondary player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I feel like we would have had a lot more sacks if we didn't play the most vanilla zone scheme ever behind our pressure. The QB's checkdown was literally always wide open. Quick hitches were gifted to the opponent. The ball came out quickly against us because of the way we schemed our defense. I don't really think our pass rush is elite, but it's more than adequate. We could use another piece, but I'm pretty much a hard "no" to Chubb at #4. He's not that good for one, and secondly, we don't need to be drafting two backups with our 2 top 5 picks. EFF THAT NOISE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucketheadsdad Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 13 hours ago, MarkPrice25 said: It's a matter of weighing the benefits of the two scenarios: having potentially two franchise caliber pass rushers (and another good one, too) can completely transform a team and give opposing offenses headaches for years to come. With a trade down you're getting a lot of ammunition to work with, but it depends on what we get from it. I completely understand the logic of a trade down, especially if a team gets desperate for one of the remaining QBs, but it all depends on what we get in return. If we can convince the Broncos that the Bills or Cardinals want to come up to 4, then sliding back one spot for an extra 2 and maybe 3 (price of a pick goes up on draft day) would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Hmmm I wonder why we’re scouting okoronkwo so heavily? He’d play 4-3 LB in pass rush situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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