Steelers give Tomlin a contract extension.

[43M]

14 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

What we see on Sundays is just the tip of the iceberg.  I can guarantee that Tomlin is in on everything from top to bottom.  Aside for being heavily involved in x's and o's with the other coaches, he's building relationships with those coaches and all of the players.  Creating a cohesive unit of men who believe in his leadership and are all playing hard for the same goal is a difficult job but one he has done extremely well.  (And one area where many other coaches have failed)

Bottom line:  As much as it is a cliche at this point, you have to look at his results.  To go 8-8 or better for 10 straight years in the NFL is an incredible feat.  Sure he's got an elite QB, but as we've often seen, that does not guarantee you a winning record.  At this point, he has earned the trust of ownership, coaches, and players.  As fans, that should be good enough for us.  

Yeah...and thats pretty much my point.   We only see bits and pieces of what goes on.   There is a TON we dont see.     Thats why its annoying seeing some Steeler fans calling Tomlin a "cheerleader" when they dont have the slightest clue what he actually does on a day to day basis to get the team ready.     Is Tomlin a "players coach"?   Sure....but does that mean all he is is a cheerleader, just because they dont see him constantly coaching the players up on the sidelines?   

I said it before, and I will say it again...Tomlin is far from perfect and there are certainly things you can knock him on....but its easy to tell the haters from those giving an objective, logical opinion of his performance.     Whenever I see someone knocking him for things they clearly have no clue about (unless they have played for or coached with Tomlin), I know not to take them seriously.     Ive never seen any of his former players or coaches claim Tomlin was just a cheerleader.....and Ill take the words of guys like Tony Dungy, John Lynch, Ryan Clark etc....who say Tomlin knows the game of football inside-out and an incredible coach over armchair QBs who want to bash him because of what they think they see in the sidelines and are butt hurt about what he says/doesnt say in post game press conferences, which are largely full of canned responses to feed to the media.   

[JLambert58]

44 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Yeah...and thats pretty much my point.   We only see bits and pieces of what goes on.   There is a TON we dont see.     Thats why its annoying seeing some Steeler fans calling Tomlin a "cheerleader" when they dont have the slightest clue what he actually does on a day to day basis to get the team ready.     Is Tomlin a "players coach"?   Sure....but does that mean all he is is a cheerleader, just because they dont see him constantly coaching the players up on the sidelines?   

I said it before, and I will say it again...Tomlin is far from perfect and there are certainly things you can knock him on....but its easy to tell the haters from those giving an objective, logical opinion of his performance.     Whenever I see someone knocking him for things they clearly have no clue about (unless they have played for or coached with Tomlin), I know not to take them seriously.     Ive never seen any of his former players or coaches claim Tomlin was just a cheerleader.....and Ill take the words of guys like Tony Dungy, John Lynch, Ryan Clark etc....who say Tomlin knows the game of football inside-out and an incredible coach over armchair QBs who want to bash him because of what they think they see in the sidelines and are butt hurt about what he says/doesnt say in post game press conferences, which are largely full of canned responses to feed to the media.   

Right.  As if being a cheerleader is a bad thing on game day.  Once you've put in all the energy and effort into preparing your team for the game, why shouldn't you cheer them on?  I think Tomlin represents the best, most positive aspect of what is called a "player's coach."  He's well respected but he cares about his guys within the context of winning the game.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

7 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

You have zero clue what Tomlin does behind the scenes.  None of us do.    Fans act like they know everything based on what they see on TV, when most coaching goes on BEHIND THE SCENES, when we arent watching and when the camera isnt on them.    

How do you know Tomlin isnt involved in the defense?   Based on interviews with LeBeau, him and Tomlin worked together to make changes to the defense when Tomlin first arrived...many players have spoken about how hands on and intelligent "Coach T" is..but some fans ignore stuff like that and act like they know more about Tomlin than the people who coach with him and get coached by him..     

I still remember when some Steeler fans used to bash Cowher, claiming that all he did was scream and spit all the time. 

Tomlin is far from perfect.   There are definitely things areas of his coaching I wish he would improve (ie....learning from past mistakes, prepping the team better vs inferior teams, etc...), but all of my concerns are based on proven issues with the team over the years under his coaching....not blind assumptions about what his role on the team is.   

 

Well, I do know that he's made some horrific in-game decisions, and his mouth wrote a hell of a lot of checks that his a$$ couldn't cash.  That's not even debatable.  It's fact.  He's a big talker and that's about it in my view.  He may be improving though the last few years.  I'm not as cold on him as I used to be.  Still not a fan at all though, and never will be.  I'll settle for being merely neutral towards him.  

My main point here which led to this being stretched out so far, is my belief that he's been carried thus far.  We've never seen him in an adverse situation.  Meaning no QB.  People think he's better than Cowher.  Cowher did more with less.  Fact.  Better win % with Ben than Tomlin has with him.  Almost the same win % without Ben as Tomlin has had with him.  

We're really not on that much different sides here.  I agree we don't know everything.  He could definitely improve a lot of things.  At least the team is improving, and that's moving in the right direction.  I'm just afraid of life after Ben with a coach like that.  Hopefully he proves to be better in that situation than I think he is.  

[Magnus-Viktor]

19 hours ago, Chieferific said:

It was supposed to say Lebeau "and others". Nice catch. You are obsessed with the idea that Bill won w/o a QB (like he had nothing to do with that) and a good Defense. But you are missing MY point. Tomlin has won w/a QB and no Defense. What's the difference? I'd say that's even harder to do in today's NFL than it was during Cowher's era. Today's NFL is more QB focused. That's not debatable. Cowher's NFL was I-formation and Counter-Treys and solid Defense to which he excelled but the League evolved and he was still playing caveman Offense.

He's won,  but done so a lot less than Cowher did with Ben.  He has no defense because he was incapable of drafting for the defense.  That's on him.  Yes, I blame him more than Colbert, even though of course Colbert is culpable as well.  Because you can see that Cowher was the one pulling the strings as evidenced by the change in drafting after Cowher left.  

I'd say Cowher's offenses with Ben were pretty damn good.  One thing about Cowher is his offense was a reflection of his OC.  It always was.  Run-oriented, sure, but that was due at least in part to necessity from not having a capable QB.  That might have evolved.  We would've had better defenses had Cowher stuck around.  I'd bet my life on that.  

[43M]

1 hour ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

Well, I do know that he's made some horrific in-game decisions, and his mouth wrote a hell of a lot of checks that his a$$ couldn't cash.  That's not even debatable.  It's fact.  He's a big talker and that's about it in my view.  He may be improving though the last few years.  I'm not as cold on him as I used to be.  Still not a fan at all though, and never will be.  I'll settle for being merely neutral towards him.  

My main point here which led to this being stretched out so far, is my belief that he's been carried thus far.  We've never seen him in an adverse situation.  Meaning no QB.  People think he's better than Cowher.  Cowher did more with less.  Fact.  Better win % with Ben than Tomlin has with him.  Almost the same win % without Ben as Tomlin has had with him.  

We're really not on that much different sides here.  I agree we don't know everything.  He could definitely improve a lot of things.  At least the team is improving, and that's moving in the right direction.  I'm just afraid of life after Ben with a coach like that.  Hopefully he proves to be better in that situation than I think he is.  

The horrific in game decisions...fine, Im not arguing that.   Thats a provable fact.    However, even great coaches make bad in game decisions....even the almighty Belichick.   Im not saying Tomlin is anywhere close to Belichick, nor am I saying Tomlin is a great coach.....but certain bad decisions he has made are decisions that are much easier to criticize when you are a fan sitting at home.   For example, I forget which game it was, but I remember Tomlin elected not to kick FGs and we ultimately ended up losing...and fans were bashing him, claiming that if we kicked those FGs we would have won, even though Im pretty sure thats when our kicking game was having some issues and there was no way of knowing how the game was going to play out when he elected to go for those.    Not that Tomlin didnt deserve any blame for his decisions, but he got so much hate for that game when it clearly wasnt all on him.

The "writing checks with his mouth" thing is overblown, mainly based on the time he said "We're going to unleash hell" and we didnt really do much.     Based on the way youre speaking of him, you would think he is Rex Ryan, guaranteeing to win SBs every year.  

Most Steeler fans that think Tomlin is better than Cowher are likely younger ones who dont have a strong recollection of the Cowher years.    I dont think Tomlin was better than Cowher, but some Steeler fans act like Cowher was infallible when he wasnt.  He got quite a bit of hate himself, especially from about 1999 to pre-Ben 2004, when fans were getting tired of us spinning our tires and not winning because of the same reasons....mainly the lack of a QB.    The win% argument between the two is flawed as well.     Cowher didnt have a QB, but (reportedly) he is a big reason we always overlooked that position and didnt win a SB until late in his tenure.   He had some pretty loaded teams outside of QB....and yes, he inherited a good bit of talent himself.    

On top of that, Cowher coached in a different league.   As much as I liked Cowher, he was extremely stubborn himself, so I often wonder how some of his philosophies wouldve worked in todays league if he wasnt willing to change.    Cowher was a Marty Schottenheimer pupil, and played alot of "Marty-ball", with that plodding, road grating running game that wore defenses down....but that doesnt work the way it used to.     If reports are to believed (and I take them with a grain of salt), there are claims that Cowher wanted to take Shawn Andrews (OG) over Ben in 2004, but Colbert and Rooney wouldnt let him pass on a potential franchise QB.   Not sure how true that is, but its seems like it could be true given Cowher's love of the power running game and the fact that our top 2 backs at that time (Bettis and Duce Staley) were bonafide power backs.

Bottom line....I have no issue with you or anyone else criticizing Tomlin.    However, if I feel its unfair, I will argue it with anyone.....and its not just Tomlin either.   Ive defended coaches and players who arent even on our team....and even divisional rivals like Joe Flacco, who Im not a big fan of, but I felt he was getting some unfair treatment at times.    

Personally, I think Tomlin is a solid to good coach who is far from perfect, but outside of a few coaches,  there arent many that I see being NOTABLY better.    Too many Steeler fans seem to want to compare him to Belichick, which  is pretty silly, because no other coach in this league is close to Belichick.     Tomlin is far from perfect....but so are most other coaches.    Look at how coaches have wasted Drew Brees and Philip Rivers.  At the very least, we are usually in the thick of things.   Ben has elite weapons around him, a very good OLine and a defense thats slowly getting better after losing some insanely good players that arent easily replaced (Polamalu, Prime James Harrison, Casey Hampton, Aaron Smith, etc...).    I dont know exactly where Tomlin's influence on this team begins and ends, but thats my overall point....no one does, at least no one that seems to think he is nothing more than a cheerleader.   

[CKSteeler]

Cowher was a Marty Schottenheimer pupil, and played alot of "Marty-ball", with that plodding, road grating running game that wore defenses down....

Except when he didn't. 1995, when his QB let him down and stopped his team from pulling off an amazing upset. 2002-3 when he got Maddox. And then the 2005 playoffs despite what the run-pass ratios say.

Cowher and Tomlin are pretty similar guys to me, but Cowher, for whatever reason, consistently built up better defensive talent than what I've seen from Tombert. Both are very stubborn, we-do-what-we-do coaches until they make some really big risks. Tomlin is more willing to roll the dice on a consistent basis, in my view, but having Roethlisberger his entire career has probably helped there.

The only noticeable improvement I've seen from Tomlin's teams versus those of Cowher's is that Tomlin's tend to play bigger when the stakes are higher. Which may be a reflection of his personality. Cowher's teams, especially in his later tenure, seemed to play tight. 2005 being the odd exception and which may have been the result of the lowered expectations. Until they got to the Super Bowl.

Personally, I think Tomlin is a solid to good coach who is far from perfect, but outside of a few coaches,  there arent many that I see being NOTABLY better. 

Perhaps its a mistake to view coaches as wives the way the Steelers do. It's all fun to talk about how there's only been three guys in charge since Noll, but right now the goal is to put the team over the hump again before Roethlisberger retires. If Tomlin can't accomplish that, he's not the guy for the job right now. And there's a lot of good reasons to doubt he is the right guy to accomplish the task.

Sometimes, change is good. And as I've said repeatedly, fear of doing worse than what you have is pretty poor logic. Especially if Tomlin really isn't much better than the average. It shows you don't trust your own process. It wasn't like Tomlin was some hot commodity when they found him. Why couldn't they do better? Why couldn't a comparable guy be found? One who might add another spark or just be the right guy for the moment?

This is not a rebuilding team. The Steelers are content for slow and steady. It's not inherently wrong for fans to want to more.

[43M]

2 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

Except when he didn't. 1995, when his QB let him down and stopped his team from pulling off an amazing upset. 2002-3 when he got Maddox. And then the 2005 playoffs despite what the run-pass ratios say.

Cowher and Tomlin are pretty similar guys to me, but Cowher, for whatever reason, consistently built up better defensive talent than what I've seen from Tombert. Both are very stubborn, we-do-what-we-do coaches until they make some really big risks. Tomlin is more willing to roll the dice on a consistent basis, in my view, but having Roethlisberger his entire career has probably helped there.

The only noticeable improvement I've seen from Tomlin's teams versus those of Cowher's is that Tomlin's tend to play bigger when the stakes are higher. Which may be a reflection of his personality. Cowher's teams, especially in his later tenure, seemed to play tight. 2005 being the odd exception and which may have been the result of the lowered expectations. Until they got to the Super Bowl.

 

I get that his QBs let him down, but thats kind of my point.....Cowher never seemed to put a strong emphasis on finding a QB.   I mean...its not all on Cowher, but Tomlin has gotten blame for not putting enough emphasis on secondary, so it stands to reason that Cowher should get some heat for not focusing more on finding a QB.   

And I agree in the 2005 playoffs he let it rip....but Ben even said in 2007 or 2008 that he was happy to finally have coaches that trusted him, and that seemed to be a dig at Cowher and maybe Whiz.

And yes, Tomlin's teams do seem to play better when the stakes are higher, and play down to inferior teams.

Quote

 

Perhaps its a mistake to view coaches as wives the way the Steelers do. It's all fun to talk about how there's only been three guys in charge since Noll, but right now the goal is to put the team over the hump again before Roethlisberger retires. If Tomlin can't accomplish that, he's not the guy for the job right now. And there's a lot of good reasons to doubt he is the right guy to accomplish the task.

Sometimes, change is good. And as I've said repeatedly, fear of doing worse than what you have is pretty poor logic. Especially if Tomlin really isn't much better than the average. It shows you don't trust your own process. It wasn't like Tomlin was some hot commodity when they found him. Why couldn't they do better? Why couldn't a comparable guy be found? One who might add another spark or just be the right guy for the moment?

This is not a rebuilding team. The Steelers are content for slow and steady. It's not inherently wrong for fans to want to more.

 

Change can be good....for sure.

Changing for the sake of change is never a good idea.    Im not saying wanting a change from Tomlin is NECESSARILY bad or wrong, but unless they had someone in mind that they felt strongly about,  I see no justification in letting go of Tomlin.   Meaning....while I could accept certain scenarios of Tomlin being replaced....I wouldnt be happy if they let Tomlin go and THEN decided to start looking for a different coach.....because Tomlin isnt a bad coach by any means, and IMO, you have a better chance of doing worse than doing better than Tomlin.   Obviously, thats just an opinion, but its not based on the belief that Tomlin is something special, and moreso based on the belief that there simply arent many coaches out there I think could do a notably better job.    Are there coaches that could do better?   Most likely.....but there are coaches that could do worse as well, and many who we would just break even with, at best..

And this isnt a "fear" thing.   I just cant think of a justifiable reason to get rid of Tomlin.    What about guys like Sean Peyton, Mike McCarthy, and Tony Dungy....guys who had elite QBs for years and years and havent had much more postseason success, if any, than Tomlin has had with Ben.    Having a franchise QB doesnt guarantee success.    If we werent in an era where the best coach of all time and arguably the best QB of all time were paired together, Tomlin would probably be viewed much better and we would probably have AT LEAST one more SB ring under him.    

Tomlin has plenty of flaws, but Id much rather take my chances sticking with him (for now) than throwing caution to the wind and replacing him with a coach that we HOPE can be better.   Until we start consistently losing or Tomlin loses the team, I cant support wanting to move on from him....and even if I did, its not going to happen with the Rooney's in charge.   They clearly prefer stability, and they wont bounce a head coach unless they feel they arent going anywhere with them....and love Tomlin or hate him, we are in the race with him every year.    The Patriots just have his number....but Belichick had Cowher's and LeBeau's number too.  

[JLambert58]

3 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

Sometimes, change is good. And as I've said repeatedly, fear of doing worse than what you have is pretty poor logic. Especially if Tomlin really isn't much better than the average. It shows you don't trust your own process. It wasn't like Tomlin was some hot commodity when they found him. Why couldn't they do better? Why couldn't a comparable guy be found? One who might add another spark or just be the right guy for the moment?

This is the kind of thinking that has many franchises in the tank.  Change for change sake?  No thanks.  The Steelers were a few good plays away from returning to the Super Bowl.  You think it's that easy to win a championship with ANY team?  Even the great Belichick couldn't win for 10 years - with Tom Brady!   Stability and improvement are keys to winning championships.  Tomlin provides that.  

What does Tomlin not being a hot commodity when he was hired have to do with this topic?  Zero.  Tomlin is easily a top 10 coach, probably top 5.  

[43M]

4 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

This is the kind of thinking that has many franchises in the tank.  Change for change sake?  No thanks.  The Steelers were a few good plays away from returning to the Super Bowl.  You think it's that easy to win a championship with ANY team?  Even the great Belichick couldn't win for 10 years - with Tom Brady!   Stability and improvement are keys to winning championships.  Tomlin provides that.  

What does Tomlin not being a hot commodity when he was hired have to do with this topic?  Zero.  Tomlin is easily a top 10 coach, probably top 5.  

He is definitely top 10.   You could perhaps argue that some coaches below him would have similar success if they had Ben, but thats not really provable.

Top 5 is iffy, but arguable.     Belichick is the only guy that it would be laughable to put Tomlin ahead of.   Then there is Pete Carroll who I believe is better, but isnt without flaws.    Some people like to argue Bruce Arians, but Arians has only been coaching a few years and IMO wasnt that great in 2016.   I want to see where his team is in a few years.

My main issue with Tomlin is he doesnt learn from past mistakes.....and thats  pretty big problem.   However, I still wouldnt dump him when the only thing that really stands between us and being a SB winning team again is the Patriots....and they stand in everyone's way. 

[Magnus-Viktor]

20 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

The horrific in game decisions...fine, Im not arguing that.   Thats a provable fact.    However, even great coaches make bad in game decisions....even the almighty Belichick.   Im not saying Tomlin is anywhere close to Belichick, nor am I saying Tomlin is a great coach.....but certain bad decisions he has made are decisions that are much easier to criticize when you are a fan sitting at home.   For example, I forget which game it was, but I remember Tomlin elected not to kick FGs and we ultimately ended up losing...and fans were bashing him, claiming that if we kicked those FGs we would have won, even though Im pretty sure thats when our kicking game was having some issues and there was no way of knowing how the game was going to play out when he elected to go for those.    Not that Tomlin didnt deserve any blame for his decisions, but he got so much hate for that game when it clearly wasnt all on him.

The "writing checks with his mouth" thing is overblown, mainly based on the time he said "We're going to unleash hell" and we didnt really do much.     Based on the way youre speaking of him, you would think he is Rex Ryan, guaranteeing to win SBs every year.  

Most Steeler fans that think Tomlin is better than Cowher are likely younger ones who dont have a strong recollection of the Cowher years.    I dont think Tomlin was better than Cowher, but some Steeler fans act like Cowher was infallible when he wasnt.  He got quite a bit of hate himself, especially from about 1999 to pre-Ben 2004, when fans were getting tired of us spinning our tires and not winning because of the same reasons....mainly the lack of a QB.    The win% argument between the two is flawed as well.     Cowher didnt have a QB, but (reportedly) he is a big reason we always overlooked that position and didnt win a SB until late in his tenure.   He had some pretty loaded teams outside of QB....and yes, he inherited a good bit of talent himself.    

On top of that, Cowher coached in a different league.   As much as I liked Cowher, he was extremely stubborn himself, so I often wonder how some of his philosophies wouldve worked in todays league if he wasnt willing to change.    Cowher was a Marty Schottenheimer pupil, and played alot of "Marty-ball", with that plodding, road grating running game that wore defenses down....but that doesnt work the way it used to.     If reports are to believed (and I take them with a grain of salt), there are claims that Cowher wanted to take Shawn Andrews (OG) over Ben in 2004, but Colbert and Rooney wouldnt let him pass on a potential franchise QB.   Not sure how true that is, but its seems like it could be true given Cowher's love of the power running game and the fact that our top 2 backs at that time (Bettis and Duce Staley) were bonafide power backs.

Bottom line....I have no issue with you or anyone else criticizing Tomlin.    However, if I feel its unfair, I will argue it with anyone.....and its not just Tomlin either.   Ive defended coaches and players who arent even on our team....and even divisional rivals like Joe Flacco, who Im not a big fan of, but I felt he was getting some unfair treatment at times.    

Personally, I think Tomlin is a solid to good coach who is far from perfect, but outside of a few coaches,  there arent many that I see being NOTABLY better.    Too many Steeler fans seem to want to compare him to Belichick, which  is pretty silly, because no other coach in this league is close to Belichick.     Tomlin is far from perfect....but so are most other coaches.    Look at how coaches have wasted Drew Brees and Philip Rivers.  At the very least, we are usually in the thick of things.   Ben has elite weapons around him, a very good OLine and a defense thats slowly getting better after losing some insanely good players that arent easily replaced (Polamalu, Prime James Harrison, Casey Hampton, Aaron Smith, etc...).    I dont know exactly where Tomlin's influence on this team begins and ends, but thats my overall point....no one does, at least no one that seems to think he is nothing more than a cheerleader.   

 

I can agree with a lot of that post.  One of the worst is the example you brought up.  Going for 2 instead of 1 and we lost the game as a result.  

As I said with Cowher, he won without a QB.  He is at least partially to blame for the lack of a QB though, since if I'm giving him credit for assembling a great team, he also gets the blame for the shortcomings.  He might have inherited talent, but they weren't winning.  They were .500.  His coaching and continued adding to the roster made them great his first 6 years.  I think Cowher was a top notch coach, but he wasn't the best.  I remember watching those games back then and I would only half watch the offense because it was boring, especially the Bettis years.  I like speed, not a big fat guy, even if he did have amazing feet.  But boy did I LOVE watching those defenses.  I used to joke that I'd get my offensive fix by watching the Vikings with Randy Moss, but I lived and breathed the Blitzburgh 34.  As for what he would've been doing if coaching now, I personally think the OC would've changed to someone more pass-oriented eventually, or maybe Whisenhunt (if we could've kept him) would've been a good one and the passing game would've expanded as Ben developed.  But that's all just speculation, on something we'll never know.  I'm basing Cowher on what I saw, just as I'm basing Tomlin on what I have seen....but of course I'm speculating about the future without Ben, since this thread is about his contract extension and thus the real and present future we'll soon see.  

In the end, I just hope if Ben does retire after this season, Tomlin is a lot better than I think he is, because the team is in for a world of hurt if he isn't and they don't have Ben to carry them anymore.  

[skywlker32]

@Magnus-Viktor

You mention it as a small thing that Cowher was partially responsible for not getting a QB, but give him full credit for everything else roster-wise. The other thing is, Ben hasn't been the sole reason that the team has played well. The Steelers have been a 9-8 team with anyone else starting aside from Ben. That's a winning record with, at times, preparing on a week or short week's notice. That's also with QBs that would not be relied on going into a season as the starter. Also, don't forget that the Steelers likely wouldn't have taken Ben had it been up to Cowher (Colbert and Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews until Dan Rooney stepped in, source), leaving them without a top QB for his entire career. The lack of QBs has to be partially put on him.

The roster took some hits with Troy and the entire DL aging/retiring in Tomlin's tenure, but two of the bigger names for the Steelers defense during Tomlin's early years in Woodley/Harrison were drafted by/finally started by Tomlin.

While Cowher took a 7-9 team and got them to 11-5, Tomlin took a 8-8 team and brought them to 10-6. Both are good coaches, Cowher may not have had his heart in it in the end, but that shouldn't lessen how good Tomlin has been.

[Magnus-Viktor]

8 hours ago, skywlker32 said:

@Magnus-Viktor

You mention it as a small thing that Cowher was partially responsible for not getting a QB, but give him full credit for everything else roster-wise. The other thing is, Ben hasn't been the sole reason that the team has played well. The Steelers have been a 9-8 team with anyone else starting aside from Ben. That's a winning record with, at times, preparing on a week or short week's notice. That's also with QBs that would not be relied on going into a season as the starter. Also, don't forget that the Steelers likely wouldn't have taken Ben had it been up to Cowher (Colbert and Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews until Dan Rooney stepped in, source), leaving them without a top QB for his entire career. The lack of QBs has to be partially put on him.

The roster took some hits with Troy and the entire DL aging/retiring in Tomlin's tenure, but two of the bigger names for the Steelers defense during Tomlin's early years in Woodley/Harrison were drafted by/finally started by Tomlin.

While Cowher took a 7-9 team and got them to 11-5, Tomlin took a 8-8 team and brought them to 10-6. Both are good coaches, Cowher may not have had his heart in it in the end, but that shouldn't lessen how good Tomlin has been.

 

The main thing I disagree with there is you calling that team that Tomlin inherited 8-8.  Not a chance.  That's more like the 15 and 11 win teams in '04 and '05 if Ben was healthy and Cowher was himself.  Minimum.  Back to back SB championships.  3 straight trips to the AFCC (and 3 straight SBs if not for Spygate).  Ben was playing at about 20% in '06.  He looked horrible.  Cowher coached horrible.  I throw that out as an anomaly, because of the combination of those 2 things.  Even just Ben being so hampered all year to that extent would do it.  Just like I would if Tomlin went through the same situation.  

[skywlker32]

2 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

 

The main thing I disagree with there is you calling that team that Tomlin inherited 8-8.  Not a chance.  That's more like the 15 and 11 win teams in '04 and '05 if Ben was healthy and Cowher was himself.  Minimum.  Back to back SB championships.  3 straight trips to the AFCC (and 3 straight SBs if not for Spygate).  Ben was playing at about 20% in '06.  He looked horrible.  Cowher coached horrible.  I throw that out as an anomaly, because of the combination of those 2 things.  Even just Ben being so hampered all year to that extent would do it.  Just like I would if Tomlin went through the same situation.  

Facts are the facts, they went 8-8.

[Magnus-Viktor]

19 hours ago, skywlker32 said:

Facts are the facts, they went 8-8.

Facts are the facts.  Anyone with a brain could see that Ben was not himself.  By far the worst QB rating of his entire career, with 75.4 (his career average was 94.1, and the 2 years before it were 98.1 and 98.6, and it was immediately followed by 104.1.  I distinctly remember a play against the Jaguars that year where he threw the ball and then winced and doubled over to try and protect his midsection from being hit (he was not only recovering from facial reconstruction and a concussion from the motorcycle accident, but also an emergency appendectomy remember?).  Logically that pass was a horrible pass and not his normal.  Now I don't  remember the stats line for that game, but that was the first game he played that year.  I just looked it up, and here it is:  38.7 QB rate.  4.4 yards per attempt.  2 INTs, 2 Sacks, only 141 yards, 53.1% completions and a fumble.  His next game against the Bungals was a 30.7 QB rate.  Then a bye week.  Followed by a 58.5 QB rate against the Chargers.  They lost all 3 of course, only managing 11 points a game.  How's that for facts for you?  

It is also a fact that Cowher's wife was DYING.  No one is going to be themselves in that situation.  So you can take the 8-8 and do you know what with it.  It means nothing to me.  It is not representative of Cowher or Ben's career whatsoever and no one with a brain will ever think so.  

[Chieferific]

Yes, and Ben's been the picture of health ever since. You make excuses (give reasons) for Cowher's ineptitude but don't give Tomlin the same leniency.