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Steelers give Tomlin a contract extension.

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skywlker32    17

@Magnus-Viktor Nowhere did I say that it was representative or Ben's or Cowher's career. As Chief said though, you make excuses on excuses for Cowher, yet all that is wrong gets put on Tomlin (yet he gets none of the credit for successes). You can say if this and if that, but the team was 8-8. It's not the only year that Ben wasn't healthy and whatever else, but that was their record.

Also, with Ben so not himself, why did Cowher allow him to continue to play? You use it as an excuse for Cowher's team, yet fail to realize that it was a mistake itself.

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3 hours ago, skywlker32 said:

@Magnus-Viktor Nowhere did I say that it was representative or Ben's or Cowher's career. As Chief said though, you make excuses on excuses for Cowher, yet all that is wrong gets put on Tomlin (yet he gets none of the credit for successes). You can say if this and if that, but the team was 8-8. It's not the only year that Ben wasn't healthy and whatever else, but that was their record.

Also, with Ben so not himself, why did Cowher allow him to continue to play? You use it as an excuse for Cowher's team, yet fail to realize that it was a mistake itself.

Like I said, that year is an outlier and I disregard it.  There has been no situation like that with Tomlin.  Not even remotely close.  When something like that happens for him, I will be the first to do so.  

My point was simply that we'll see if he's worth a damn when he no longer has Ben to carry him.  Anyone can look good when they're being carried.

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Chieferific    3

You give Bill a pass for the 8-8 record in '06. What are the reasons for the 3 losing seasons to which Tomlin has had none? QB again? 

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skywlker32    17
43 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

Like I said, that year is an outlier and I disregard it.  There has been no situation like that with Tomlin.  Not even remotely close.  When something like that happens for him, I will be the first to do so.  

My point was simply that we'll see if he's worth a damn when he no longer has Ben to carry him.  Anyone can look good when they're being carried.

Again, Tomlin is 9-8 with backup quality QBs...I'm not too worried.

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4 hours ago, skywlker32 said:

Again, Tomlin is 9-8 with backup quality QBs...I'm not too worried.

If you're content with 1 game over .500, that's pretty sad.  I expect a hell of a lot better.  

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skywlker32    17
18 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

If you're content with 1 game over .500, that's pretty sad.  I expect a hell of a lot better.  

That's 1 game over 500 with QBs that have no business starting in the NFL. After Ben hangs them up, the quality of QB will likely be somewhere between those backups and Ben's quality of player. There would likely also be more cap to spend on non-QB players assuming the next QB isn't on Ben's level.

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1 hour ago, skywlker32 said:

That's 1 game over 500 with QBs that have no business starting in the NFL. After Ben hangs them up, the quality of QB will likely be somewhere between those backups and Ben's quality of player. There would likely also be more cap to spend on non-QB players assuming the next QB isn't on Ben's level.

Agreed.

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54 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

Then you should be pretty happy with Tomlin going forward also then.

Uh no.  Not until he proves he can actually coach without being carried.  We'll have to evaluate him under those guidelines you laid out there, which I agree will be accurate.  He doesn't get a pass if they suck without Ben.  

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skywlker32    17
2 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

Uh no.  Not until he proves he can actually coach without being carried.  We'll have to evaluate him under those guidelines you laid out there, which I agree will be accurate.  He doesn't get a pass if they suck without Ben.  

He has had more than a season's worth of work with less to work with and less time to prepare than they will have when Ben is gone and he still has a winning record. Keep in mind that the QBs replacing Ben in 10 of those 17 games were Dennis Dixon, Mike Vick and Landry Jones. In those games, they were 6-4. That's some bad QB play to overcome and still have a winning record.

If you don't see how Tomlin has done a very good job already (regardless of Ben's presence), it's useless for me to even bother with this conversation.

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18 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

Uh no.  Not until he proves he can actually coach without being carried.  We'll have to evaluate him under those guidelines you laid out there, which I agree will be accurate.  He doesn't get a pass if they suck without Ben.  

Being carried?     So should we just dismiss the success of any coach who has ever had a franchise QB?  

Earlier, you brought up about how Cowher had success without a great QB for years, but you seem to ignore that Cowher coached during a different era.    In this era, Cowher wouldnt have nearly as much success with QBs like Kordell Stewart and Mike Tomzack, and didnt even get over the hump until Colbert and Rooney basically forced him to draft a QB and then stopped playing "Marty Ball" in the 2005 playoffs.

And Tomlin's teams have actually had decent success without Ben over the years.    We started 3-1 when Ben was suspended 4 games a few years back, and played the Ravens tough multiple times without Ben....almost beating them with the likes of Dennis Dixon and Byron Leftwich.    I know thats a limited example....but its better than blindly assuming that the only reason Tomlin has had success is because of Ben.  

Some Steeler fans overrate Tomlin.....but fans like you UNDERRATE Tomlin, because you seem to like to attribute all of his success to anyone but him, without any reason supporting arguments other than stuff like "Tomlin inherited Ben".   While, Cowher supposedly never even wanted Ben, and even if he was, he sure the hell isnt the one that made Ben the QB what he is today.     Tomlin isnt either.....but the point is, Cowher doesnt deserve any more credit for Ben than Tomlin.       

Now, will Tomlin have success without Ben?  I dont know.....maybe, maybe not.   I know Tomlin haters will hate on him the moment Ben is gone if the team regresses, ignoring how hard it is to find a QB and that many great coaches wouldnt be considered great without their QBs....and alot of supposedly bad coaches would likely be viewed much better if they DID have good QBs.  

If Tomlin doesnt have success after Ben, then yes....eventually, it will be time to look beyond him, but it will also be time to look beyond Kevin Colbert as well, because that would likely mean the talent isnt being brought in just as much as it might been the coaching isnt good enough.

As of right now, though, despite his flaws, Tomlin has kept this team competitive every year, with the only coach that has clearly outperformed him being the best coach of all time, and if youre comparing your head coach to Bill Belichick, youre likely never going to be satisfied with any coach, Tomlin or otherwise.  

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Chieferific    3
1 hour ago, FourThreeMafia said:

If Tomlin doesnt have success after Ben, then yes....eventually, it will be time to look beyond him, but it will also be time to look beyond Kevin Colbert as well, because that would likely mean the talent isnt being brought in just as much as it might been the coaching isnt good enough.

Next year's draft class is QB loaded. Obviously QB is a difficult position to project but there are several possible replacements for Ben in next year's crop. I assume they won't be in position to draft Darnold and I have no interest in Rosen but guys like Jackson, Rudolph, Falk and Allen are intriguing prospects that would prolly garner a high pick. It will be interesting to see how early they pull the trigger on the position.  Wouldn't it be nice to have a seamless transition from QB to QB like the Colts did but without the putrid record that created it?  Then follow that up with a RB and never skip a beat. Easy. Right? Seriously though, check out Oregon's Royce Freeman. He has some serious COD skills (especially behind the LOS) that remind me a lot of Bell. In fact, his whole game does. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

Edited by Chieferific

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JLambert58    0
22 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

Uh no.  Not until he proves he can actually coach without being carried.  We'll have to evaluate him under those guidelines you laid out there, which I agree will be accurate.  He doesn't get a pass if they suck without Ben.  

You're kidding, right?  How well did Belichick do without being "carried" by Tom Brady when he coached the Browns?  Tomlin has a 10 year track record of success.  Not perfect, but who is?  He's provided stability, consistency (usually) and a strong culture of competitiveness.  There is only so much you can control as a head coach.  Your job is to prepare your team for success and I believe he has done that better than most.  

I'm not a Tomlin apologist by any means, he's made some really dumb in-game coaching and clock management decisions at times.  I hate his philosophy on 2-point conversions, for instance.  (Glad he toned that down)  But you have to give the man credit for building a competitive team after losing an entire "generation" of great players besides Ben & Deebo.  Cowher, it can be argued, had bigger strengths than Tomlin but he also had bigger weaknesses imo.  

 

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5 hours ago, Chieferific said:

Next year's draft class is QB loaded. Obviously QB is a difficult position to project but there are several possible replacements for Ben in next year's crop. I assume they won't be in position to draft Darnold and I have no interest in Rosen but guys like Jackson, Rudolph, Falk and Allen are intriguing prospects that would prolly garner a high pick. It will be interesting to see how early they pull the trigger on the position.  Wouldn't it be nice to have a seamless transition from QB to QB like the Colts did but without the putrid record that created it?  Then follow that up with a RB and never skip a beat. Easy. Right? Seriously though, check out Oregon's Royce Freeman. He has some serious COD skills (especially behind the LOS) that remind me a lot of Bell. In fact, his whole game does. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

I agree about QB....which is why I was so against drafting a QB from this past class, most of which I thought were overrated.

Still, its never that easy, as you know.   

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