VanS Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 6 hours ago, CWood21 said: You believe the fact that Rodgers is elite is because he throws hard? Hell no. No. Rodgers is elite for many reasons. However, to say that his generational arm strength doesn't play a huge factor in why he's so great is so be blind to reality. Without that crazy arm, Rodgers wouldn't be able to make the ridiculous throws he makes every Sunday. Elite arm strength is a significant contributor to his greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 5 hours ago, AlNFL19 said: To understand my rankings, this is the grading scale I work by: 9.0-10: Perennial All-Pro 8.0-8.99: All-Pro 7.5-7.99: Potential All-Pro 7.25-7.49: Good NFL Starter 7.0-7.24: Potentially good NFL starter 6.5-6.99: Good chance to become good starter 6.0-6.49: Could become late starter 5.5-5.99: Likely backup 5.0-5.49: Developmental player -5.0: Back End of the Roster 1. Sam Darnold, USC - 7.33 - Definitely not my favorite QB in this class, but the best right now. He has the accuracy and the vision to be a solid starter. 2. Josh Rosen, UCLA - 7.0 - Again, not my favorite passer, but he's undeniably good. He's got good touch but won't work in all systems or locker rooms. 3. Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma - 6.88 - One of my favorite QBs in the draft - I think Mayfield has a solid combination of accuracy and athleticism. T-4. Josh Allen, Wyoming - 6.63 - If he's expected to start year one, I think he's in for a Goff-like first campaign. If not, he should be a good NFL quarterback. T-4. Lamar Jackson, Louisville - 6.63 - The next two are my two favorites in the class, and are polar opposites. Jackson is the greatest athlete outside of Randall Cunningham to ever come into the NFL at QB and has enough accuracy to be a good QB. If he goes to the Saints like so many people have mocked him to, he and Kamara will be the stuff of nightmares for defensive coordinators. I'd love Jackson in New England because of his familiarity with an Erdhardt-Perkins offense and his arm strength, because I think he'd be good enough accuracy-wise to run a short-pass offense. T-4. Luke Falk, Washington State - 6.63 - See what I mean about polar opposites? Accuracy is crucial for an NFL quarterback, and Falk has it. He's struggled the past year or so but I think his accuracy and intelligence will give him a shot to be a star. If he can work enough to get his release time faster, he could be the top QB to come out of this class. 7. Mike White, Western Kentucky - 5.78 - Quite a drop-off. I think White is better than prospects such as Kyle Lauletta (5.75) and Mason Rudolph (5.75) because he has a solid combination of arm strength and accuracy (better arm than Lauletta and I think better vision than Rudolph). My favorite QBs in the class are Jackson, Falk, and Mayfield. It is a solid ranking system, but I disagree with some of your rankings! 1. Sam Darnold - 7.73 A very solid pro prospect, who could definitely reach All Pro status! 2. Josh Allen - 7.72 potentially a Perennial All-Pro if he can correct some red flags 3. Josh Rosen - 7.71 a very solid pro prospect who could definitely reach All Pro status if he can stay healthy, a big red flag there! 4. Baker Mayfield - 7.01 solid pro prospect who will have to overcome his height problem, great leader of men and highly competitiive 5. Lamar Jackson - 7.00 Is he the next Vick with more accuracy or just a great athlete??? 6. Mason Rudolph - 6.63 Potentially a NFL starter 7. Mike White - 6.60 Could possibly develop given a few years with decent pro coaching 8. Luke Falk - 5.95 - A career backup at best, if that. Looks like a system QB whose HC is very adapt at hiding weaknesses! As for Falk, his HC has produced numerous QB's, who put up absolutely great stats, but never ever developed into anything as pros!! Falk will have to prove he is different!!! As for my rankings, the top 5 definitely have serious potential and could all be top 12 to 15 picks with the real possibility that the top 4 go 1,2,3, and 4 in the draft!!! That makes them minimally, a potential good pro prospect who can start at the next level!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 16 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Chris Simms is a hack. “Marino and Allen are nothing alike...” “Louis Riddick agrees with me.” ”Arm strength isn’t the most important factor...” ”Chris Simms agrees with me.” Beginning to see a trend here. Paxton Lynch, Brock Osweiler, Colin Kaepernick, Ryan Mallet, Logan Thomas, Jamarcus Russell, how many cases do you need? There’s much more of a trend of smart, good decision makers having success than there are rocket armed QBs having success. Incoming Skip Bayless reference? The only problem with your argument is that practically every starting QB who ever played in the NFL all had above average arm strength. Nobody is saying it guarantees success, obviously it doesn't, but every scout and GM will tell you, that is the first box that is checked before going into much more work on a QB. If a QB does not have above average arm strength, h isn't going to be a NFL starter!!! So again, obviously, a QB must have that kind of arm, why in the world would a scout look seriously at any college QB without checking his arm strength first. After that there are many other boxes that have to be checked before a scout would give a college QB any chance to be a NFL starter. Again, nobody is saying you need elite arm strength, that is just ridiculous, but you do need above average arm strength! I can give you a thousand NFL starting QB's and more, who all had above average arm strength, seeing a trend here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlNFL19 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 14 hours ago, Iamcanadian said: It is a solid ranking system, but I disagree with some of your rankings! 1. Sam Darnold - 7.73 A very solid pro prospect, who could definitely reach All Pro status! 2. Josh Allen - 7.72 potentially a Perennial All-Pro if he can correct some red flags 3. Josh Rosen - 7.71 a very solid pro prospect who could definitely reach All Pro status if he can stay healthy, a big red flag there! 4. Baker Mayfield - 7.01 solid pro prospect who will have to overcome his height problem, great leader of men and highly competitiive 5. Lamar Jackson - 7.00 Is he the next Vick with more accuracy or just a great athlete??? 6. Mason Rudolph - 6.63 Potentially a NFL starter 7. Mike White - 6.60 Could possibly develop given a few years with decent pro coaching 8. Luke Falk - 5.95 - A career backup at best, if that. Looks like a system QB whose HC is very adapt at hiding weaknesses! As for Falk, his HC has produced numerous QB's, who put up absolutely great stats, but never ever developed into anything as pros!! Falk will have to prove he is different!!! As for my rankings, the top 5 definitely have serious potential and could all be top 12 to 15 picks with the real possibility that the top 4 go 1,2,3, and 4 in the draft!!! That makes them minimally, a potential good pro prospect who can start at the next level!!! I’m trying to go more cautious with my grades which explains the lower figures but I definitely think Falk could be an NFL QB in the right offense. And with few All-Pro QBs per year, I’d be surprised to see more than two of these guys ever get to second team All-Pro QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 1. Darnold 2. Rosen 3. Mayfield 4. Allen 5. Jackson 6. Rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 18 hours ago, Groink said: Could be wrong (hope I'm not) but I just can't shake the feeling that Allen is going to turn out to be a very good NFL quarterback. He's getting picked apart and over-analyzed now. I like him. Oh, and I have no idea how to rank this qb class... If you ask me, he's too much Brock Osweiler/Ryan Mallet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Danger said: If you ask me, he's too much Brock Osweiler/Ryan Mallet I don't see Mallet all outside of strong arm and tall. Osweiler? i guess sort of? Osweiler's arm isn't quite Allen's so he's not as equipped to do the gunslinger thing that he wanted to do, and he's not as athletic in my opinion. Both had some judgment issues on the field, that's for certain. So there's some overlap here for sure. I also like Jake Locker as a comp. Locker wasn't a gun slinger to the extent that Allen is, but there's a lot of overlap in their similarities in my opinion. That being said, I've been bullish on Allen last year. I'm not backing off. I think he'll be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 17 hours ago, Iamcanadian said: The only problem with your argument is that practically every starting QB who ever played in the NFL all had above average arm strength. Nobody is saying it guarantees success, obviously it doesn't, but every scout and GM will tell you, that is the first box that is checked before going into much more work on a QB. If a QB does not have above average arm strength, h isn't going to be a NFL starter!!! So again, obviously, a QB must have that kind of arm, why in the world would a scout look seriously at any college QB without checking his arm strength first. After that there are many other boxes that have to be checked before a scout would give a college QB any chance to be a NFL starter. Again, nobody is saying you need elite arm strength, that is just ridiculous, but you do need above average arm strength! I can give you a thousand NFL starting QB's and more, who all had above average arm strength, seeing a trend here!!! I bet I could name more college QBs with strong arms that amounted to nothing in the NFL. I agree you need a solid arm to be good NFL quarterback in 99% of cases, but elite throwing power is not the most important aspect. Meaning, I’ll take the smart guy with an average arm over the dummy with a howitzer. Anyway, my point was that Allen-Marino comps are bad. They’re still bad. They both throw the ball with ease, but Allen just so happens to lack every other aspect of the QB position that Marino had. It’s a bad, lazy comp that is more shock value than anything else. This is like me saying “This amateur guy is like Joe Louis or Sonny Liston because he punches hard”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 18 hours ago, VanS said: No. Rodgers is elite for many reasons. However, to say that his generational arm strength doesn't play a huge factor in why he's so great is so be blind to reality. Without that crazy arm, Rodgers wouldn't be able to make the ridiculous throws he makes every Sunday. Elite arm strength is a significant contributor to his greatness. That's my point. You argued that arm strength was the reason why he was such a good QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 9 hours ago, AlNFL19 said: I’m trying to go more cautious with my grades which explains the lower figures but I definitely think Falk could be an NFL QB in the right offense. And with few All-Pro QBs per year, I’d be surprised to see more than two of these guys ever get to second team All-Pro QB. Every GM has a record of college HC's as to what positions they have sent prospects to the NFL and how successful those prospects were. Every spring, college HC's decide at what position they will put their best recruits and they all have tendencies that can be easily seen. Just as an example, will Ohio St's HC put one of his best recruits at WR or CB, CB takes preference with the Ohio St. HC and he sends many DB's to the NFL who have had wonderful success. As I said, Falk plays for a college HC who has had a multitude of QB's with gaudy stats and none of them has ever amounted to anything as a pro and IMO, Falk is just another in the long line of QB's he has sent to the pros. His HC is a master at hiding a QB's weaknesses and no matter how weak they have been as pro prospects, they all put up unbelievable stats for his teams. This is the primary reason Rodgers fell on draft day, his college HC had had many high drafted QB's and they had all flopped and GM's were scared Rodgers was just another of his creations, who would follow the same route and well, he might have, if he hadn't been able to ride the bench behind Favre and completely rework his mechanics while doing so. If he had had to start in year 1, he might have ended up like the other QB's his HC sent to the pros. If you want to be a solid draftnik, knowing a college HC's tendencies is a must, they rarely ever vary where they put their best athletes, OL vs DL, WR vs DB, TE vs LB, RB vs DB etc. etc. Based on his college HC's record for producing pro QB's, I give Falk about a 10% chance to even make it, even as a career backup, never mind as a starter. Rodgers proved that this formula isn't perfect, but I have followed it for around 65 years of being a draftnik and in that time, I have only seen a about 5 prospects who proved the formula wrong. As for your ratings, you have to separate how they are rated as a prospect from what you really think they will accomplish as pros. Nobody ever knows how a prospect will perform at the next level, nobody can measure heart, determination and character. Some GM's are far better evaluators of these attributes, but nobody ever really come close to perfection. All we can know is that 4 of the 6 possible QB's predicted to go in round 1, are likely to be picked 1, 2, 3, and 4 on draft day and you have to give them their due, till they prove they aren't as good as advertised. Watson and Mahomes were considered after thoughts by most draftniks, but both are looking pretty good right now and the 4 QB's in this year's draft, are going to be picked a lot higher than these 2 were and therefore, are ranked higher by GM's and pro scouts. Again, nobody can predict their futures as pros, that will be decided on the playing field, all we do as draftniks, is rank them where we think they will be drafted and top 5 picks all usually, have a pretty decent rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techbert Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I've got 1. Mayfield, cuz accuracy, leadership, and athleticism 2. Darnold, cuz solid and just as nimble 3. Jackson, cuz good quarterback and great athlete and leader 4. Rudolph, cuz good 2nd tier starter but not as mobile as above 5. Don't care, cuz career backup. Prolly White over Falk, but DC's will tee off against him and bring him down. Rosen off the board, cuz one migraine away from retirement and iffy leadership. Allen off the board cuz bad mechanics which will look fixed until key situation where they come back with a vengeance and his coach finds himself drawing unemployment. Having either on the roster just gets the fans in a tizzy with misguided hope. I have no issue with Darnold #1. He presents as Stafford to me, and probably will play on that level. Jackson at #1 looks weird, unless you remember how Watson was killing it until he went down. Mayfield won't go #1 cuz NFL is very height-conscious at qb. I get that. I really do. It limits your playbook, but Mayfield has adapted and I don't see it limiting his playbook IRL. I think 4 of first 5 picks are qb's, but half those teams will regret their eagerness. I'm fitting Nelson and Barkley for gold jackets, and Chubb will be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBS756 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1a. Mayfield 1b. Allen 2. Darnold 3. Rosen 4. Jackson If grading on only potential Jackson and Allen would be 1a and 1b. my brain says rate darnold no1 ... my gut says no ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanS Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Just started watching some tape on Kyle Lauletta. Very impressed. I might have to bump him into my top 5 QBs list. He reminds me a lot of Alex Smith. As of right now, I would probably take him over Baker Mayfield. Here's how I would rank the top QBs now: Josh Allen (Wyoming) Lamar Jackson (Louisville) Sam Darnold (USC) Josh Rosen (UCLA) Kyle Laulette (Richmond) Baker Mayfield (Oklahoma) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elusive_Tiger Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1. Sam Darnold 2. Josh Rosen 3. Lamar Jackson 4. Josh Allen 5. Baker Mayfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog2372 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1. Darnold 2. Allen 3. Mayfield 4. Rosen 5. Rudolph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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