bMiller031 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, germ-x said: Haha, that’s who many are comparing Allen to. Hopefully one of them is a GM drafting before us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 minute ago, bMiller031 said: Hopefully one of them is a GM drafting before us! It will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I don't love Allen in Denver based on our pedigree of developing players, but I think he could be very successful in the right spot. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 39 minutes ago, champ11 said: I don't love Allen in Denver based on our pedigree of developing players, but I think he could be very successful in the right spot. Who knows. So lamar and allen aren't fits with us check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 4 hours ago, germ-x said: It will be. He's going to be the latest Jets QB bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 My 2nd biggest nightmare is Elway taking Allen 1.5. My biggest is Elway trading up for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Broncofan said: My 2nd biggest nightmare is Elway taking Allen 1.5. My biggest is Elway trading up for him. I'm in two minds over this. I'm hoping that Elway himself has been smart enough to realise that the last two times he spent a premium draft choice on a tall, cannon armed QB who is not accurate, they turned out to be massive busts. Allen is Elway's prototypical type of QB, but hopefully Elway realises himself that his last few QB evaluations have been so terrible that he'll change his beliefs a little and select one of the three QBs that are blatantly superior NFL prospects to Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, paul-mac said: I'm in two minds over this. I'm hoping that Elway himself has been smart enough to realise that the last two times he spent a premium draft choice on a tall, cannon armed QB who is not accurate, they turned out to be massive busts. Allen is Elway's prototypical type of QB, but hopefully Elway realises himself that his last few QB evaluations have been so terrible that he'll change his beliefs a little and select one of the three QBs that are blatantly superior NFL prospects to Josh Allen. I hope so. Like I said it’s just a nightmare lol. I do really hope someone takes away Elway’s choice though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, Broncofan said: I hope so. Like I said it’s just a nightmare lol. I do really hope someone takes away Elway’s choice though. I’m on the almost polar opposite side of this with Mayfield. Want no business with that guy. Just average. Was listening to a Greg Cosell podcast and he mentioned you can justify taking Allen and failing. He’s the prototype for an NFL QB. He said it’s a lot harder to justify Mayfield and he likes Mayfield. He said NFL teams picking that high will ask the people in the room, why shouldn’t we draft him? With Allen the only thing that will come up is mechanics (which are coachable) with Mayfield you’ll have size, system, arm, athleticism. Basically the only reason you don’t take Allen is if he has a severe mental or character red flag because he has everything else physically or you don’t think your coaches can get the job done. With Mayfield he just flat out might not be good enough physically to be an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, germ-x said: I’m on the almost polar opposite side of this with Mayfield. Want no business with that guy. Just average. Was listening to a Greg Cosell podcast and he mentioned you can justify taking Allen and failing. He’s the prototype for an NFL QB. He said it’s a lot harder to justify Mayfield and he likes Mayfield. He said NFL teams picking that high will ask the people in the room, why shouldn’t we draft him? With Allen the only thing that will come up is mechanics (which are coachable) with Mayfield you’ll have size, system, arm, athleticism. Basically the only reason you don’t take Allen is if he has a severe mental or character red flag because he has everything else physically or you don’t think your coaches can get the job done. With Mayfield he just flat out might not be good enough physically to be an NFL QB. Where's your proof that mechanics are "coachable"? QBs with a completion percentage in college that's as poor as Allen's almost always fail in the NFL. Now, you can give me the excuse that his WRs weren't very good or that he looked good at his pro day (laughable) but if I'm a GM and I have to gamble my job on the success of a first round QB, I want a guy who can at least pass this most basic analytic that appears to be predictive of a guy's NFL career. https://fansided.com/2018/02/21/josh-allen-rumors-scouting-report-nfl-draft-history/ Read this piece on why Josh Allen is going to fail in the NFL. Now for Mayfield, you bring up four concerns: Size: Irrelevant. Russell Wilson has single handedly made GMs look silly for passing on a QB on the grounds that he is short. System: Irrelevant. Almost all colleges are running the spread now and the NFL is increasingly becoming a 70% shotgun league too. You're going to have this concern with nearly everyone and to be honest the best way round it is to introduce college concepts into your NFL offense. Arm: Not particularly relevant. The best QBs in the NFL aren't the guys who can throw the ball the furthest. A cannon-arm is just a "nice to have" trait, it's not the end of the world. Athleticism: Almost laughable that you think Mayfield's athleticism is a concern. He has better rushing stats than Josh Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 23 minutes ago, paul-mac said: Where's your proof that mechanics are "coachable"? QBs with a completion percentage in college that's as poor as Allen's almost always fail in the NFL. Now, you can give me the excuse that his WRs weren't very good or that he looked good at his pro day (laughable) but if I'm a GM and I have to gamble my job on the success of a first round QB, I want a guy who can at least pass this most basic analytic that appears to be predictive of a guy's NFL career. https://fansided.com/2018/02/21/josh-allen-rumors-scouting-report-nfl-draft-history/ Read this piece on why Josh Allen is going to fail in the NFL. Now for Mayfield, you bring up four concerns: Size: Irrelevant. Russell Wilson has single handedly made GMs look silly for passing on a QB on the grounds that he is short. System: Irrelevant. Almost all colleges are running the spread now and the NFL is increasingly becoming a 70% shotgun league too. You're going to have this concern with nearly everyone and to be honest the best way round it is to introduce college concepts into your NFL offense. Arm: Not particularly relevant. The best QBs in the NFL aren't the guys who can throw the ball the furthest. A cannon-arm is just a "nice to have" trait, it's not the end of the world. Athleticism: Almost laughable that you think Mayfield's athleticism is a concern. He has better rushing stats than Josh Allen. Size, system, and arm are all completely relevant to success in the NFL. Athleticism is to a degree, but Mayfield has no concerns there, IMO. Still, bringing up one QB (Wilson) to prove size is not an issue is foolish. Short QBs are the clear exception, not the rule by any means. System is still relevant. The NFL is changing slowly, but the reality is that a lot of the concepts used in college are short lived in the NFL, mostly because the talent level on defense far surpasses that of college. You still need to be able to play from under center in the NFL and Mayfield has serious questions there. Arm strength is relevant. I agree with you that people tend to fall in love with the big arm wonders in hopes they can coach them up, but you still need to have an average to above average arm to succeed. If you can't throw deep outs and crisp sideline passes in the NFL, you're toast. Anticipation only gets you so far. Elite QBs in the league have the arms to make every throw. They may not have an elite arm in that they're not throwing 70 yard bombs- that is the nice to have trait. Mayfield has a lot to like, and also a lot of questions. He could very well succeed just as much as he could fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 To be transparent I only want 2 guys at 1.5 for QB - Darnold or Rosen. My biggest fears are on Allen because he could flat out bust. His floor is that low. Re: Mayfield I’m just not sold he will be an elite ceiling QB. He also carries bust risk but it’s much lower than Allen’s. At this stage it’s pretty clear Darnold is a pipe dream. Rosen has a shot if the off-the-field and frame / size concerns keep popping up as legit. Otherwise I’m fine with any of the big 3 elite nonQB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 37 minutes ago, paul-mac said: Where's your proof that mechanics are "coachable"? QBs with a completion percentage in college that's as poor as Allen's almost always fail in the NFL. Now, you can give me the excuse that his WRs weren't very good or that he looked good at his pro day (laughable) but if I'm a GM and I have to gamble my job on the success of a first round QB, I want a guy who can at least pass this most basic analytic that appears to be predictive of a guy's NFL career. https://fansided.com/2018/02/21/josh-allen-rumors-scouting-report-nfl-draft-history/ Read this piece on why Josh Allen is going to fail in the NFL. Now for Mayfield, you bring up four concerns: Size: Irrelevant. Russell Wilson has single handedly made GMs look silly for passing on a QB on the grounds that he is short. System: Irrelevant. Almost all colleges are running the spread now and the NFL is increasingly becoming a 70% shotgun league too. You're going to have this concern with nearly everyone and to be honest the best way round it is to introduce college concepts into your NFL offense. Arm: Not particularly relevant. The best QBs in the NFL aren't the guys who can throw the ball the furthest. A cannon-arm is just a "nice to have" trait, it's not the end of the world. Athleticism: Almost laughable that you think Mayfield's athleticism is a concern. He has better rushing stats than Josh Allen. I’d respond but clearly you’re tied down to the Mayfield bandwagon that even if he lost 4 fingers on his throwing hand you’d be giving us reasons he’d succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
germ-x Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Broncofan said: To be transparent I only want 2 guys at 1.5 for QB - Darnold or Rosen. My biggest fears are on Allen because he could flat out bust. His floor is that low. Re: Mayfield I’m just not sold he will be an elite ceiling QB. He also carries bust risk but it’s much lower than Allen’s. At this stage it’s pretty clear Darnold is a pipe dream. Rosen has a shot if the off-the-field and frame / size concerns keep popping up as legit. Otherwise I’m fine with any of the big 3 elite nonQB. Last report I had read it appeared to indicate that Cleveland is debating between Darnold/Allen. NYG wants Darnold, so if they don’t get him that pick is in the air. NYJ is Rosen/Mayfield, and obviously 1.4 is up for debate with Cleveland taking a QB 1.1 and being able to take BPA or trade down with a QB needy team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 4 hours ago, broncos67 said: Size, system, and arm are all completely relevant to success in the NFL. Athleticism is to a degree, but Mayfield has no concerns there, IMO. Still, bringing up one QB (Wilson) to prove size is not an issue is foolish. Short QBs are the clear exception, not the rule by any means. System is still relevant. The NFL is changing slowly, but the reality is that a lot of the concepts used in college are short lived in the NFL, mostly because the talent level on defense far surpasses that of college. You still need to be able to play from under center in the NFL and Mayfield has serious questions there. Arm strength is relevant. I agree with you that people tend to fall in love with the big arm wonders in hopes they can coach them up, but you still need to have an average to above average arm to succeed. If you can't throw deep outs and crisp sideline passes in the NFL, you're toast. Anticipation only gets you so far. Elite QBs in the league have the arms to make every throw. They may not have an elite arm in that they're not throwing 70 yard bombs- that is the nice to have trait. Mayfield has a lot to like, and also a lot of questions. He could very well succeed just as much as he could fail. Nice analysis. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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