OBJ will not step foot on the field without new deal

[bagh]

20 minutes ago, mattbags2313 said:

lmao, please point out where the name "JPP" was used ANYWHERE in my response. Maybe you should click on that link yourself bud. I want to respond to your post, I really do. But the second I read you would prefer Gordon over OBJ I realized it just isnt worth it. One of the biggest knocks out OBJ is his off the field BS. Yes! So lets amplify that issue with Josh Gordon, and just pray he doesnt smoke weed anymore. It is an absolute mortal lock that Gordon tests positive for something at some point in his career. And the last thing I'll respond to is please stop comparing RB to WR. It has been proven over recent years that RB IS NOT worth investing heavily in. Teams rotate backs all year long,  they use committees, and the top back in the rotation is barely playing 70% of snaps unless your zeke, bell, johnson, gurley or fournette. And at that point I'd still take OBJ over all those guys just because you know their life span is not long at all. Id much rather have a cheap backfield where everyone has their role and it isnt breaking the bank. Like back when we had earth, wind, and fire. Having a stud RB is a luxury these days. Barkley without question is the number one player in this draft and most likely the best back to come out since AP. Yet, he still might fall to 4 or out of the top 5 simply because teams dont value running backs. 

 

Last thing, hypothetically say we draft Darnold at 2 cause thats what it is looking like. Wouldnt it be drastically easier to bring along a rookie QB when you surround him with actual weapons, and not guys that should be on the practice squad like we had last year? And dont give me any of that crap pertaining to Shep's stats from last year. They were inflated cause his volume was through the roof.Its like how Frank Gore still manages 1000 yards on 900 carries.  And god no to Maclin. His play has fallen off a cliff. Talk about wear and tear. As much as I love the idea of having Barkley, it isnt needed for this team.If we gett Darnold at 2, and then in the second round get one of the trillion running backs in this draft such as Michel or Guice, our offense looks pretty solid. Or go line in round 2. This is the year you draft your QB because chances are we wont be picking this high again for awhile. You cant say "OBJ may get hurt or start declining" Come on, you are reaching here. The guy is 25 years old. He isn't just going to start declining out of no where. And in some weird world where that happens, you can say that about any player on the roster. Nate Solder is 30, and was just signed to the largest contract for a LT, and his play has statiscally fallen off in recent years. Its football, any player can get hurt or decline at any point. You cant factor that into the equation, especially injuries. We signed Cruz and his career was immediately ended. Could happen to anyone.

Bro be honest with yourself. The reason you can't respond is because you can't read. It's o.k. Here is a link for support groups in New York to help you come to grips with it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/groups/new-york

The reason being, you took a throwaway argument I made where I admit it's a throwaway argument and used it as the crux of your lack of response. If you could read you would realize that.

As for you central premise about teams devaluing RBs, the Jags and Leonard Fournette and the Cowboys with zeke will disagree with you.

Yogi, the White Knight, I'll get to you after work. I can't figure out how to break apart quotes with this new system.

[YogiBiz]

8 minutes ago, bagh said:

Bro be honest with yourself. The reason you can't respond is because you can't read. It's o.k. Here is a link for support groups in New York to help you come to grips with it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/groups/new-york

The reason being, you took a throwaway argument I made where I admit it's a throwaway argument and used it as the crux of your lack of response. If you could read you would realize that.

As for you central premise about teams devaluing RBs, the Jags and Leonard Fournette and the Cowboys with zeke will disagree with you.

Yogi, the White Knight, I'll get to you after work. I can't figure out how to break apart quotes with this new system.

I am no White Knight. I just can't stand when someone talks down to someone. But then says something just as idiotic. HE CAN READ, OBVIOUSLY. I WOULD LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T CALL HIM ILLITERATE JUST CALL HIM STUPID. Christ. 

That was the main reason for me to comment on the argument after Acgott said not to.

And to break apart quotes, just go to the end of the sentence/paragraph that you would like to end your quote on, then press return twice. 

[Acgott]

@bagh @Kip Smithers @YogiBiz @mattbags2313 And anyone else posting here. Drop the personal attacks. It’s a simple concept. Use the ignore feature if you can’t control yourself around another poster.

[YogiBiz]

1 minute ago, Acgott said:

@bagh @matt_bags2313 @Kip Smithers @YogiBiz And anyone else posting here. Drop the personal attacks. It’s a simple concept. Use the ignore feature if you can’t control yourself around another poster.

Understood. Sorry everybody.

 

[mattbags2313]

27 minutes ago, bagh said:

Bro be honest with yourself. The reason you can't respond is because you can't read. It's o.k. Here is a link for support groups in New York to help you come to grips with it:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/groups/new-york

The reason being, you took a throwaway argument I made where I admit it's a throwaway argument and used it as the crux of your lack of response. If you could read you would realize that.

As for you central premise about teams devaluing RBs, the Jags and Leonard Fournette and the Cowboys with zeke will disagree with you.

Yogi, the White Knight, I'll get to you after work. I can't figure out how to break apart quotes with this new system.

still waiting for you to point out where  I talked about JPP. Or you could just apologize because you clearly made a mistake. And maybe you read past it but I referenced Fournette and Zeke. I also mentioned Gurley, bell, and Johnson. Exception to every rule, those guys are a dime a dozen. Out of the 32 teams, 5 of them dont use a committee, so my point of devaluing RBs remains true. Patriots rotate 15 different running backs and make the super bowl every single year. Get a clue.

 

And I made multiple points, all of which you seem to ignore to continue a personal attack. When you want to talk football, or better yet when you can handle yourself in an argument about football without referencing your personal life or attacking someone for something they didnt even say feel free to let me know.  

[mattbags2313]

25 minutes ago, Acgott said:

@bagh @Kip Smithers @YogiBiz @mattbags2313 And anyone else posting here. Drop the personal attacks. It’s a simple concept. Use the ignore feature if you can’t control yourself around another poster.

ok now I'm done

[BStanRamFan]

It's worth mentioning that ODB has a say in where he is traded in the sense that he can decide whether or not he will sign an extension with the team trading for him. If the Bills give up the farm for ODB, but he refuses to sign longterm and only plays out his rookie deal/franchise tag, it's a mute point. From that standpoint, it could pigeon hold what the Giants can actually get for him. Has ODB said anything negative in regards to re-signing with the Giants or just he won't show up to camp without a new deal?

[bagh]

8 hours ago, YogiBiz said:

I am no White Knight. I just can't stand when someone talks down to someone. But then says something just as idiotic. HE CAN READ, OBVIOUSLY. I WOULD LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T CALL HIM ILLITERATE JUST CALL HIM STUPID. Christ. 

That was the main reason for me to comment on the argument after Acgott said not to.

And to break apart quotes, just go to the end of the sentence/paragraph that you would like to end your quote on, then press return twice. 

This actually had me laughing. No seriously, laughing. So what triggered you wasn't that I insulted Matts. It's seems you don't deny that Matts is stupid but your problem is that my insult wasn't factually correct? This post I am actually going to remember this for a while.

[bagh]

13 hours ago, YogiBiz said:

Lol are you illiterate, or just dyslexic? Because @matt_bags2313 didn't say anything about JPP or his contracts. He must be using invisible font on the computer screen that you can only see. OH WAIT! You must have directed that completely unwarranted personnel attack was directed at @Kip Smithers. Oh man, and also Kip never centered his argument around JPP, he has mentioned him once  in this six pages here. The fact that you focused your argument on this (with a different poster no less), kind of makes you look like a moron. Especially after your Straw Man Response. Cool you might be able to read, but your ability to understand what someone reads is fairly lacking

You spend most of this post attacking other posters. Yes who exactly appreciates the opinions of someone who belittles his fellow fans? You tried to make a point and it was lost in your childish idiocy. BUT I WILL DISMANTLE YOUR STUPID ARGUMENTS; QUITE EASILY, I MIGHT ADD. IDK why I used caps there, but I did regardless. 

All righty Lancelot, I know Kip was the one who made the JPP statement, but he wasn’t the one who quoted my reply of the link and used it as the crux of his response was he. He thought he would smugly question my abilities without ever looking into the context or looking at things holistically.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/holistic (Matts, I thought I would stick a link to it’s definition cause I seriously doubt you would know what it means)

I swear to god Yogi, as soon as I read your response,  I wasn’t insulted. I thought it was the funniest thing I read until I read your post about being triggered. I kept imagining you were saying it like you were a supehero. “I will go in and save the day. I will rush in and make this villainous Cad realize the error of his ways by beating him with my powers of intellect.” Afterwards, the whole time at work, I kept hearing the second verse from E-40’s “Captain Save a Hoe” stuck in my head. Made work fun today. 

Good track I recommend that to any Hip Hop Heada out there.

Side Note: Acgott, are sigs still allowed? If so, I want to see if I can hit Rase up on Facebook and get him to make me a Captain Save a Hoe Sig.  
 

Quote

Yes you are right, but you are forgetting that average QB play can be masked by good receivers. I'll leave this here again, " IF A RECEIVER PUTS UP NUMBERS AKIN TO A #1 RECEIVER, THEN HE IS A #1 RECEIVER." 

Your argument here is just a false alternative. You can't say cause Dak and Dez don't mesh well, that a new QB and OBJ won't work. You have no way of knowing that. You are sounding like it's a guarantee that they won't get along at the beginning. There was also some half-truths thrown in as well, cause looking at Dak does he not have enough comfort with the rest of receivers? 

As for “my” argument, IF A RECEIVER PUTS UP NUMBERS AKIN TO A #1 RECEIVER, THEN HE IS A #1 RECEIVER. I never said that. I am pretty sure my argument was “You don’t build around an expensive WRs.” I am pretty sure I put a number 1 beside it and everything but I guess I will have to bold it and underline next time since it was so understated.  My actual argument that you continually seemed to miss was you don’t need that “once in a generational talent” at the position because you can replace the production. I guess I will keep saying this till I am blue in the face, WR IS THE MOST NEEDY AND DEEPENDENT POSITION ON THE ROSTER.

As for your point about the other positions, I love how you conveniently ignore the fact that every single one of those guys were able to change their respective franchises from being jokes one year to a potential contender the next. The Texans made the playoffs 3 straight years from the year Watt was drafted, the Vikings 2 straight years after Peterson was drafted. They had a bit of a tumble after the Favre fiasco but bounced back, Sanders led the Lions to the playoffs 5 out of the 10 (I think) years he was there. Hell, If I remember right his last year was his 2k yard season and he singlehandedly carried the team to the postseason that year. After he left the team was a laughingstock. The team was the Cleveland Browns before the Cleveland Browns. Even Cousins was able to take the Redskins to the playoffs before they pulled a Dan Snyder and shot themselves in the foot like they always do.  OBJ hasn’t done anything like that. The only year we made the playoffs with him on the roster was after we spent something like $100 million on improving the defense. Not because of OBJ.

As for the Players you listed in the Championship game, not a single one of them fall under the dominant category we are discussing. In fact, I don’t even know who Antonio Bryant is. I am assuming you mean Antonio Bryan and he can potentially be in the conversation but he wasn’t even in the Championship Game last year. If you want to argue for 2017 when the Falcons and the Steelers were there. Fine, they still got their butts handed to them by a good QB. In terms of Gronk, his production is lessened in my mind given Brady and the system. The same system turned that psycho Hernandez and Bennett into top 5 players in their system. Addtionally, he is too hurt to often to be able to point to him and say he is the reason they are winning.

As for the Dak and Dez bit, Shurmur didn’t go to bat for OBJ from the get go. You don’t find it odd that the Coach who doubles as the game caller isn’t banging the drums to keep the guy if he was such a fit for his system.

In terms if generational players, I think of the Johnsons (Andre and Calvin), Larry Fitzgerald, and Randy Moss. Every single one of those are Hall of Famers and none of them would be the sole basis of a team I would build because they have shown that a WR can’t be the focal building block of a team. Fitz made the playoffs 4 out of 14 years (I think) and only after he got 2 good years somehow out Warner and Palmer. How did trading the Seventh Overall Pick for Moss work out for Oakland. Everyone basically knows the story of the Johnsons. If you get 2 picks for OBJ, do it and stack the team.

Quote

You have a lot of insight in how the future plays out. You sound confident in yourself as well that these are the paths that will be walked down. I had no idea I was arguing with God. 

Sigh, The SS87 (Best Nickname alert) went from catching 8 TD's with OBJ on the field to 2 with him off it. You're worried about getting yards cool; I and pretty much every other fan of any sports team anywhere (except maybe Cricket (never understood this game) and Golf), however, are worried about scoring points. And The SS87, I am loving this nickname, had only 50 more yards receiving this year as "The Number 1 guy" 

Yeah we need multiple guys, but we also need THE Guy. Every team has a guy they go to when they need a completion. 

Again with THE GUY, how many teams have been in the Superbowl in the last 10 years with THE GUY and how many have WON. The only team that I can think of is the Falcons with Jones. Every other team relied on a QB or Defense.I am making arguments based on analyzing past trends and putting things into context, but hey if you want to ascribe divinity to that I am cool. I can send you my paypal information and you can make donations to my football Church

Quote

Even if Eli doesn't retire, we will have approximately 52M in cap space. You want to go out an Overpay Robert Quinn (I focused on this cause Barr, and Clowney are not going anywhere) who was traded from a 3-4 Defense because he simply didn't fit? I'm glad you don't run any sports team I am a fan of. Matter of fact, I know a guy in the Eagles FO. I could probably get you the job, if you promise to make the boneheaded signings for them. (this is a joke. I don't know anyone in the Eagles FO). 

And god damn you are undervaluing the hell out of OBJ. He is on pace to shatter records, that have been in place for two decades. Yet, you only want two picks for him. That isn't just generational talent, this is Once-In-A-Lifetime talent. 

So your plan is to stay @ #2 pick up a QB. Trade OBJ, and pick up a RB and G? Terrible idea. 

Actually, I would wait to see if Buffalo into the top 7 and try and get 3 First rounders for them for my pick. I would use one on Chubb or Barkley, trade OBJ for a first and a second and fill as many holes as I can and rebuild on the fly, but that's just me. 

Quote

Oh Boy, Mr. 18 Catches himself, and Jeremy "I can't seem to stay hired anywhere I go because I suck" Maclin. You know how to add to the tool box. 

How can someone be illiterate if they have been typing, and responding to this conversation? You can say he's stupid. Cause he doesn't understand what he's reading. 

You're not right about anything you said. I pointed out most of the fallacies in your argument. I didn't feel like continuing. This is probably the rudest, and most ignorant (You conveniently ignore any counter arguement, even though they would fill your argument with holes) post I have ever read on this site. Congratz 

 

 

Quite frankly you haven't refuted anything because you didn't even get my argument. You made arguments based on what you think I said. So next time, before you jump into someone else's fight, take that stick out your ***, make sure you at least know what the fight is about. 

Acgott, do what you got to do. You know I aint on enough on this forum any more to care bud.  I only came to see if you guys were doing the Mock Draft contest again this year. I am going to block them both after i respond and they can say whatever they want for the masses. It doesnt matter anymore.

[bagh]

10 hours ago, mattbags2313 said:

still waiting for you to point out where  I talked about JPP. Or you could just apologize because you clearly made a mistake. And maybe you read past it but I referenced Fournette and Zeke. I also mentioned Gurley, bell, and Johnson. Exception to every rule, those guys are a dime a dozen. Out of the 32 teams, 5 of them dont use a committee, so my point of devaluing RBs remains true. Patriots rotate 15 different running backs and make the super bowl every single year. Get a clue.

 

And I made multiple points, all of which you seem to ignore to continue a personal attack. When you want to talk football, or better yet when you can handle yourself in an argument about football without referencing your personal life or attacking someone for something they didnt even say feel free to let me know.  

Honestly, I didnt read the rest of your argument. I saw that there was a weird break in the post. I didnt realize that you were editing your post until this butthurt post. I assumed whatever Talk to Text program you were using was to deal with your illiteracy was on the fritz. I figured the rest of your post would be like reading something from Google Translate or autocorrect on an iphone.

For all I knew it could be telling me that you want a BJ from a New York Giraffe and I had no interest in your sexual proclivities, but it seems that you're argument seems to be that only 5 teams are run heavy.  

Forgetting that you have Ingram in San Diego, McCoy in Buffalo, the Card rely heavily in Johnson, the Titans tried to ride Murray like they did last year and it didnt work out, the Panthers took McCaffrey a couple of pick after Fournette with an eye on turning him into a focal point. The only reason we have Stewart. The Chiefs had Hunt if I remember right, and the Falcons had Freeman. There are probably a lot more I am forgetting. The only teams that have consistently rotating RBs successfully was the Saints with Kamara and  but the fact of the matter is you are parotting stuff you hear on ESPN probably about the league devaluing RBs. 

As for the Pats 12 RBs or whatever, they have the best QB to play the game why would they care about a RB. They keep trying to invest in guys for Brady and realize they can plug in a sock puppet at WR and it will work. 

As for the apology, good luck with that. Even the guy working so hard to fight your battles seems to imply he thinks your dumb. 

My advice, just accept the fact that you are stupid and move on with your life. You will be better of for it.

[GmenSeattle]

Lordy.  Can I get some cliff notes for what bagh just wrote up?

[mattbags2313]

12 hours ago, bagh said:

Honestly, I didnt read the rest of your argument. I saw that there was a weird break in the post. I didnt realize that you were editing your post until this butthurt post. I assumed whatever Talk to Text program you were using was to deal with your illiteracy was on the fritz. I figured the rest of your post would be like reading something from Google Translate or autocorrect on an iphone.

For all I knew it could be telling me that you want a BJ from a New York Giraffe and I had no interest in your sexual proclivities, but it seems that you're argument seems to be that only 5 teams are run heavy.  

Forgetting that you have Ingram in San Diego, McCoy in Buffalo, the Card rely heavily in Johnson, the Titans tried to ride Murray like they did last year and it didnt work out, the Panthers took McCaffrey a couple of pick after Fournette with an eye on turning him into a focal point. The only reason we have Stewart. The Chiefs had Hunt if I remember right, and the Falcons had Freeman. There are probably a lot more I am forgetting. The only teams that have consistently rotating RBs successfully was the Saints with Kamara and  but the fact of the matter is you are parotting stuff you hear on ESPN probably about the league devaluing RBs. 

As for the Pats 12 RBs or whatever, they have the best QB to play the game why would they care about a RB. They keep trying to invest in guys for Brady and realize they can plug in a sock puppet at WR and it will work. 

As for the apology, good luck with that. Even the guy working so hard to fight your battles seems to imply he thinks your dumb. 

My advice, just accept the fact that you are stupid and move on with your life. You will be better of for it.

Again your lack of being able to read hurts you in your argument. I don't think you taught any kids anything, at least for their sake I hope not. I mentioned David Johnson right between Bell and Gurley. As for the rest of your backs you mentioned, it is VERY clear you don't watch football. Derrick Henry has slowly been taking the ball out of Demarco Murray's hands for over a year now, but good try! He was pretty much phased out of the offense by mid season if not earlier. Freeman is part of a committee with Coleman, Tevin comes in on most passing downs, and sometimes alternates drives with Freeman. But again good try. Christian McCaffrey? what? He wasnt part of a committee? Dude come on lmao. He had 437 yards rushing on 3.7 a carry, thats wildly ineffective. He excelled as a pass catcher first and foremost. In no world is he even remotely close to a true number 1 back. Stewart had more attempts and yards..."committee" And lastly the chiefs revolved their whole running attack around hunt because both spencer ware and akeem hunt got hurt. That was supposed to be a committee but fell apart. Spencer's knee exploded so bad before the season started that they dont even expect him back to start this upcoming season. And Kareem's play started to fall off by mid season last year. Maybe if he was part of a committee and handled a lesser workload that wouldnt of happened...player preservation...

 

But I will just continue debunking your nonsense cause its easy and fun.  You said the saints are the only team to use a committee with consistent success (which is laughable in itself but whatever) however you said the patriots only have success rotating back because who their QB is. I guess Drew Brees is chop liver? How could one be true for one team, and not another with a similar situation? My answer would just be maybe both teams do a good job of finding players that they know will flourish within their offense if they have a role that is geared to their strengths....idk maybe thats too obvious....

Quick note here are some other teams that rotate backs:

Eagles-just won a super bowl. Blount, Ajayi, Smallwood, Clement. All 4 backs had a role in that offense and all were effective.

Falcons-coleman and freeman

Ravens-Buck Allen and Alex Collins

Bears-jordan howard and tarik cohen

Bengals-hill(on pats now), bernard, mixon

browns-Crowell and duke johnson...this upcoming year hyde and duke johnson

broncos-booker and anderson

lions-abdullah, riddick, washington,and green was even getting snaps. Now toss Blount into the mix

packers-Montgomery, williams, jones

texans-lamar miller and foreman...when foreman got hurt it was blue

honestly even the jags did rotate fournette with yeldon. Yeldon pretty much played all passing downs

raiders- lynch, washington and richard...now doug martin too

fins-last year was drake and williams

jets-forte and powell..this upcoming season crowell, powell and rawls

skins-perine and thompson..rob kelley too before he got hurt

seahawks-davis, carson, prosise

giants-whatever crap they tossed back there

need i continue...if you told me today the giants had the jets back, I'd be completely okay with that. Dirt cheap and you have 3 different types of backs. Crowell is the grinder, rawls is the early down guy, and powell is your pass catching threat. Could make the same argument for many other combinations i listed. Point being, no you dont need to invest heavily or have a gurley, david johnson or zeke to have a successful ground attack. Committees are more effective, versatile, and preserve the life of your players

 

and lastly...you can kiss OBJ going anywhere good bye after the Rams got Cooks because they said we asked for too much.  

[showtime]

I think Beckham Jr. ends up staying with the Giants.  They technically don't have to give him his extension right now, no matter how much he complains about wanting it.  He can say he won't play all season - a lot of players have used that same threat over the years.  In fact, Aaron Donald said the same thing last off-season.  Donald even missed the first game of the season vs the Colts and what happened?  He got his butt back in and played.  Why?  Because the team doesn't have to give you a new deal if you're still currently under contract and going an entire year without playing is not good for you.... oh yea, and an entire year without getting those paychecks isn't good either + the fines and such you rack up as you hold out.

[Gmen]

54 minutes ago, showtime said:

I think Beckham Jr. ends up staying with the Giants.  They technically don't have to give him his extension right now, no matter how much he complains about wanting it.  He can say he won't play all season - a lot of players have used that same threat over the years.  In fact, Aaron Donald said the same thing last off-season.  Donald even missed the first game of the season vs the Colts and what happened?  He got his butt back in and played.  Why?  Because the team doesn't have to give you a new deal if you're still currently under contract and going an entire year without playing is not good for you.... oh yea, and an entire year without getting those paychecks isn't good either + the fines and such you rack up as you hold out.

I feel like these rumors were drummed up by bored talking heads at ESPN.

[Uncle Buck]

If I'm John Mara, I would respond by saying that OBJ will not be getting a new deal until he sets both of his feet inside a barbershop! 

Seriously, though, I don't see him going anywhere.  This is the time of the year when players and FO's talk tough to keep proper posture during the negotiation process.  When all is said and done, OBJ will probably still be a Giant when Week 1 rolls around.  Good luck in the draft and in the 2018 season!