"Alex Lewis to LG, James Hurst to RT" - Harbaugh

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0770248931543095561-4

What are your thoughts? Mine are as such: "Why?"

[Danand]

I just see it as "this is our current lineup" comments. Obviously most of it will be changed after the draft and again come training camp. I believe, that they believe, that they could go into the season with Collins as a starting back supported by Allen and Dixon, and that Hurst might only be a lateral move or slight downgrade from Howard.

Its no secret we lack a pass catching tight end, so that is an easy way to talk about a need.

[wackywabbit]

It's what I expect him to say at this point. Lewis is the RG in name, until he's moved, which hasn't happened yet. It would only happen in camp at the earliest. He said Hurst was the RT at this same point last year and we had this same thread. 

I'm not saying that I'm sure they'll flip, just that this statement now is to be expected.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Hurst is going to start. They're not paying him that contract for him not to start. He's either the LG or the RT, and from what Harbaugh says it's the RT. That's not good.

[berlin calling]

say it ain't so Harbaugh. you finally found a position Hurst is actually a decent fit and yet move him again because he worked out so well at T already. i talked myself into Hursts contract being decent for his play at LG but now i am not so sure anymore. please draft a T early Ozzie.

[wackywabbit]

11 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

Hurst is going to start. They're not paying him that contract for him not to start. He's either the LG or the RT, and from what Harbaugh says it's the RT. That's not good.

I firmly disagree with this assessment. A 26 year old locked in starter does not settle for 4.375M per in the current market. That is a perfectly reasonable backup/6th man contract. That's not starter money; not even close. A likely but potentially replacable starter anywhere on the line in his prime athletic years would get 6.5-8M. Lineman that actually look pretty good even over short periods would get around 10M. And the really good guys won't hit UFA.

Also, Hurst may be OK at guard. If he sustains or improves his play there, which given his age is not impossible, then this contract is a steal. That upside being in the price means that the downside of him going back to being someone who we never want on the field is also there.

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

2 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I firmly disagree with this assessment. A 26 year old locked in starter does not settle for 4.375M per in the current market. That is a perfectly reasonable backup/6th man contract. That's not starter money; not even close. A likely but potentially replacable starter anywhere on the line in his prime athletic years would get 6.5-8M. Lineman that actually look pretty good even over short periods would get around 10M. And the really good guys won't hit UFA.

Also, Hurst may be OK at guard. If he sustains or improves his play there, which given his age is not impossible, then this contract is a steal. That upside being in the price means that the downside of him going back to being someone who we never want on the field is also there

If Hurst right now was regarded as a RT, his contract would make him the 16th highest paid RT in the NFL (in total value $17,500,000), and his APY would make him the 18th highest paid RT in the NFL. source

This contract is not backup-tier. This is starting money.

[paraven]

Overall I'm good with that line, as long as Hurst isn't playing left tackle. He will be better then Howard was last year. If they aren't comfortable with him by the time camp rolls around, look for a veteran camp casualty to be signed. I like the youth in the line though. All the guys seem to be tough hard competitors, there are no gaithers or mckinneys in this line 

[wackywabbit]

8 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

If Hurst right now was regarded as a RT, his contract would make him the 16th highest paid RT in the NFL (in total value $17,500,000), and his APY would make him the 18th highest paid RT in the NFL. source

This contract is not backup-tier. This is starting money.

18th among RTs? Wow, that's even lower than I would have thought. MOST of the NFL is on rookie contracts. Very few rookie contracts are significant money. Most of the NFL didn't sign their contracts this year; as we all know contracts are rising with the cap now over $177, so older contracts will be cheaper. Then you factor in teams that have current holes at The position. Then you factor in that a few rookies will be in starting RT roles from the coming draft... And Hurst STILL couldn't do better than 18th among RT's as a veteran UFA in his prime years?

Backup-tier confirmed. His contract positions him like Brandon Carr for our O-line going into this seasons with 2 outside CBs and probably a NCB in front of him. It's the closest, though imperfect comparison. Hurst is still cheaper than Carr despite Carr being very old for his position. 

[baltimoreRebel]

I know it's horrible to say this and it goes against being a fan in so many ways. 

I wouldn't be upset if this year was a massive failure so we can start from scratch next year with Decosta taking over as GM. Hire an entire new coaching staff and get a new ball rolling. 

I just don't see how this makes sense? Would he have gotten this contract had he not played LG? He wasn't a great RT. 

[diamondbull424]

James Hurst is a solid swing tackle option. Right now, he’s the only player on the team that has OT experience in the NFL, thus it only makes sense for Harbaugh to mention him as the starting RT and Alex Lewis as the starting LG. I’m sure his ideal position might be inside, but until we have a RT we have to utilize his positional versatility.

If we go into the draft and we don’t find an OT as a BPA at any point within the first two days, then I expect this lineup to be bolstered with a cap casualty.

But I’m sure we’ll head into the draft with OT about as big of a need as a playmaking TE, ILB, WR, and center. That’s too many positional needs to say with certainty what the starting lineups will be some 6 months from now. Any freaking out about Harbaugh’s at this point would be an overreaction, especially considering he’s not the GM or assistant GM that resigned Hurst in the first place.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

29 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

James Hurst is a solid swing tackle option.

Since when? Every time he's played OT for us it's been a nightmare.

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, Darth Pees said:

Since when? Every time he's played OT for us it's been a nightmare.

He has the positional understanding to play OT is the point. What’s more he’s looked horrible at LT. He only ever played RT twice and that was without an offseason work to get comfortable with the spot. 

Hes started 32 games to date:

15 games at LG

15 games at LT

2 games at RT

Again, to say he’s looked terrible at LT is accurate. To say he’s looked pretty good at LG is accurate. To say he’s looked terrible at RT is jumping to conclusions. Especially since he looked average to below average at RT (not terrible) within a COMPLETELY different blocking scheme that was based on heavy ZBS principles and without an offseason to practice. He was thrust into the position when the usually durable Ricky Wagner went out for two games in 2016.

We honestly don’t really know what Hurst will look like at RT. So again, it would be an overreaction to say that he can’t be solid on the right side without a large enough sample size at the position.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

12 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

He has the positional understanding to play OT is the point. What’s more he’s looked horrible at LT. He only ever played RT twice and that was without an offseason work to get comfortable with the spot. 

Hes started 32 games to date:

15 games at LG

15 games at LT

2 games at RT

Again, to say he’s looked terrible at LT is accurate. To say he’s looked pretty good at LG is accurate. To say he’s looked terrible at RT is jumping to conclusions. Especially since he looked average to below average at RT (not terrible) within a COMPLETELY different blocking scheme that was based on heavy ZBS principles and without an offseason to practice. He was thrust into the position when the usually durable Ricky Wagner went out for two games in 2016.

We honestly don’t really know what Hurst will look like at RT. So again, it would be an overreaction to say that he can’t be solid on the right side without a large enough sample size at the position.

We don't know what Lewis would look like at RT, either. So why not go with Hurst where we know he can succeed and take our chances with the more-talented Lewis rather than gamble with both Hurst and Lewis?

To think that while we've seen 15 disastrous games with him at LT that he'd be remarkably much better at RT is.....a stretch, IMO. For me, there's more upside with Lewis at RT than Hurst at RT, and we know what we have with Hurst at LG whereas we don't with Lewis at LG. Either way you're taking a chance with Lewis since we haven't seen him. Might as well maximize our potential, don't you think?

[diamondbull424]

24 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

We don't know what Lewis would look like at RT, either. So why not go with Hurst where we know he can succeed and take our chances with the more-talented Lewis rather than gamble with both Hurst and Lewis?

To think that while we've seen 15 disastrous games with him at LT that he'd be remarkably much better at RT is.....a stretch, IMO. For me, there's more upside with Lewis at RT than Hurst at RT, and we know what we have with Hurst at LG whereas we don't with Lewis at LG. Either way you're taking a chance with Lewis since we haven't seen him. Might as well maximize our potential, don't you think?

James Hurst was the much more decorated player coming out of college at the OT position.

Lewis was a college LT that earned honorable mention in his junior year and second team his senior year.

Hurst was a 2nd team and 1st team player respectively, while being a year younger at that point. He was also considered a fringe 1st round pick before he broke his leg his final collegiate game forcing him to go undrafted.

He hasn’t had the same level of athleticism since the injury, but he’s steadily been working his way back to that point.

Lewis started had collegiate experience at guard and has been at guard for the past couple seasons, having him switch now would be less productive then having Hurst kick back out to OT. Granted he’s only sparingly played RT, he still has more OT experience (recent and collegiate) at the position than Lewis.