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Non-QBs projected to go high in the draft that you are not sold on


VanS

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On 3/29/2018 at 7:16 PM, Teen Girl Squad said:

ITs fair to say but my opinion on WRs is similar to RBs, unless its 'generational' talent (an overused phrase), I generally don't want to draft WR in round1. Complete pacakage guys like CJ, Julio, AJ Green, Fitzgerald (tall, fast, good route runners etc...) are the only guys I'd draft high, usually. Like most players, he certainly can be good despite that but I'm not gambling on it on day 1 except maybe at the tail end if I were a team just a WR short (which I don't see this year).

He is going to be drafted somewhere between 17 and 25 in round 1. The Jones', Greens' and Fitzgeralds' of this world get taken in the top 10 if not the top 5, so comparing him to these types is just unfair, he is not that kind of talent, but I ask you, if you think he can be an Edelman clone, would you think that is good enough to fit into round 1, somewhere more reasonable!

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On 3/29/2018 at 7:57 AM, VanS said:

I've seen the following players projected to go high in the 1st round in almost every mock draft.  I'm personally not as sold on them as most.

  • LB Roquan Smith (Georgia) - I know everyone loves him but I just don't see top of the first round talent with him.  IMO the top inside linebacker in this year's draft is Leighton Vander Esch.  Roquan Smith reminds me a lot of Keith Rivers.  Very highly touted prospect from USC that was drafted 9th overall in 2008.  Similar size.  Similar athleticism.  And on tape they move the same.  It wouldn't surprise me if Roquan Smith ended up being a similar player.
  • CB Denzel Ward (Ohio State) - Another guy everyone else loves that I'm not quite sold on.  I know he's flying up the draft boards but I just don't see lock down corner.  I know he's a great athlete, but he was very grabby on his tape.  This could lead to lots of penalties.  Also not sold on his size even with the positive measurement at the combine.  Big receivers will be able to make plays on him.
  • LB Tremaine Edmunds (Virginia Tech) - Incredible size and athleticism.  I question the instincts.  He's not as consistent on tape as his physical traits say he should be.  As I said earlier, my top inside linebacker in this draft is Leighton Vander Esch and its not even close.
  • RB Derruis Guice (LSU) - I know he's not projected to go high in the 1st round but he's the #2 RB behind Saquon Barkley on most people's lists and I just don't see it.  I have him rated closer to #10 in this class than #2.  He has a weird top heavy built to his body.  He's not very elusive.  I don't see him creating much in the way of yardage.  Most of his big runs come from perfect blocking.  He's not the type of guy who you can put behind a mediocre offensive line and get major production from.  I'm not saying he won't be effective in the NFL.  He's just not anywhere close to being the #2 RB in what is an absolutely LOADED RB class.

I agree with Ward, but regardless he will be picked quite high and be the 1st CB taken most likely.  That speed is hard to duplicate and his coverage ability is so smooth.  His tackling has a lot to be desired though for sure, as a tackler I would take Carlton Davis over him all day.  And Ward will benefit off of Lattimore's success last year being from Ohio State, even though Ward is not as good of a player I do not think.  Did wish to see Ward play a little better this past season, make more plays on the football for sure but he did not do much of that, and not playing the bowl game was kind of pathetic I thought.  Oddly enough they still beat USC easily but most of that was to do with the DL and not having Ward was not really any issue at all.

 

Termaine Edmunds sure is a little raw still but you do not find linebackers 6-5 250 with his ability to do everything on the field, he can rush the passer, he is decent in coverage and he could play arguably inside or outside linebacker.  The guy is a freak athlete and linebacker now a days, it is hard to find elite level talent that size because most become DEs or 3/4 OLB pass rushers.  Edmunds is legit I feel and a rare prospect athletically who you could do a variety of things with.  Should be the first LB taken.

 

Roquan Smith, again it is not that easy to find linebackers and he far out played Carter on his own team who is physically bigger and more talented athletically with that size.  Smith is a wonderful athlete, some of the workouts surprised me how nimble he is out there.  And the kid can simply tackle and do so with aggression and power.  I would be surprised to see a head seeking missile like him fail big time in the NFL.  Only knock is the system, similar to Alabama where the front really allows freedom for those ILBs to make a ton of plays, but still he has impressed a lot and is well worth a 1st round pick.

 

Guice did not play behind some great offensive line this past season at all.  They were super inexperienced and played a ton of freshman, sure talented but not finished products at all.  Best part is when Fournette went out two years ago because of injury, LSU did not miss a beat with Guice and if anything he played better than Fournette did previously.  Love Guice's toughness as a runner and that will help him a lot at the next level, he is hard to bring down and is not afraid of contact.  

 

 

 

 

 

Hayden Hurst is one, for sure he is a 2nd round pick but 1st round talent, not sure about that.  Especially if he is picked over Goedert and especially Gesicki.  Gesicki is not getting attention he should be, kid can really jump, run and be potentially a great red zone target.  Athletic ability alone he should be the 1st TE talent I feel.  Then two I feel will drop but are better players than when they are drafted, are Vita Vea and Calvin Ridley.  Could easily seem them dropping, especially Ridley but kid is a solid WR and Vea will drop just on team needs but kid is a stud for any DL.  

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4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Bradley Chubb

Maurice Hurst

Harold Landry

I agree on Chubb. I gave him a very good grade but not a Top-5-in-the-class grade. I like Landry, though. I haven't scouted Hurst yet, so I have no comment on him.

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On 3/29/2018 at 5:57 AM, VanS said:

LB Tremaine Edmunds (Virginia Tech) - Incredible size and athleticism.  I question the instincts.  He's not as consistent on tape as his physical traits say he should be.  As I said earlier, my top inside linebacker in this draft is Leighton Vander Esch and its not even close.

I think it has to be mentioned that there's no guarantee that Edmunds ends up as an ILB at the next level, so if you're basing your opinion on him in that, it could be off kilter. If he's drafted for the 49ers he could play the 4-3 SAM role a'la Bruce Irvin where a lot of his focus is going to be blitzing. I feel like somewhere I've read that people thought he could play pass rush specialist in a leo type spot as well, don't know if that modifies your stance on him, but it bears mentioning. 

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19 hours ago, AlNFL19 said:

I agree on Chubb. I gave him a very good grade but not a Top-5-in-the-class grade. I like Landry, though. I haven't scouted Hurst yet, so I have no comment on him.

- Yeah, I just don't see him in the same class as a Myles Garrett, Khalil Mack, Von Miller, Clowney. Just a notch below, there just isn't anything extraordinary about him and his game, basically good but not great.

- Landry is a one trick pony as a pass rusher who didn't offer anything to the run game in college and won't all of the sudden be great at it in the next level. I think Shane Ray is a safe comparison for him if all goes well.

 

- Hurst, just because he was good in college doesn't mean he will be good on the next level, he is undersized and has physical limitations, not a good combination heading to the next level where guys are humongous, strong and have outstanding technique. His lower body is just plain insufficient in my book.

 

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As a diehard LSU fan, I know for a fact that I wouldn't touch Arden Key. I don't care for anything about his game. Talent is there, but I don't think the kid has any heart. Nothing in his game wows me. Watching games he didn't seem to have the motor or drive you see from other big name defenders. I think the kid will bust hard.

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Josh Jackson and Marcus Davenport are probably the two that standout to me. Jackson is going to be scheme dependent and struggle if put on an island at the next level. Could be awesome if he allowed to be a zone corner, but he is going to be limited as to where he can play in the league. Davenport is an athletic freak but still quite raw. Certainly saw some bad moments during the Senior Bowl week. People cry boo about Josh Allen having bad games against P5 team, but Davenport had a tackle for loss (1.5) against Texas A&M in 2016 and failed to pick-up any in his three other key non-conference games (Colorado State, Arizona State, and bowl game vs New Mexico) and was limited to 1 TFL and 2 Pressures against Baylor this year.

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Bradley Chubb: I think that he'll be VERY solid for a long time (if healthy), but I don't see him as an elite pass rusher. I think that he's a high motor guy with solid but not elite athleticism that will be very well balanced.

Arden Key: I'm honestly not sure what's to like as a football player or a person. He's a good athlete, granted, but I don't get the hype.

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On 29/03/2018 at 6:57 AM, VanS said:

I've seen the following players projected to go high in the 1st round in almost every mock draft.  I'm personally not as sold on them as most.

  • LB Roquan Smith (Georgia) - I know everyone loves him but I just don't see top of the first round talent with him.  IMO the top inside linebacker in this year's draft is Leighton Vander Esch.  Roquan Smith reminds me a lot of Keith Rivers.  Very highly touted prospect from USC that was drafted 9th overall in 2008.  Similar size.  Similar athleticism.  And on tape they move the same.  It wouldn't surprise me if Roquan Smith ended up being a similar player.
  • CB Denzel Ward (Ohio State) - Another guy everyone else loves that I'm not quite sold on.  I know he's flying up the draft boards but I just don't see lock down corner.  I know he's a great athlete, but he was very grabby on his tape.  This could lead to lots of penalties.  Also not sold on his size even with the positive measurement at the combine.  Big receivers will be able to make plays on him.
  • LB Tremaine Edmunds (Virginia Tech) - Incredible size and athleticism.  I question the instincts.  He's not as consistent on tape as his physical traits say he should be.  As I said earlier, my top inside linebacker in this draft is Leighton Vander Esch and its not even close.
  • RB Derruis Guice (LSU) - I know he's not projected to go high in the 1st round but he's the #2 RB behind Saquon Barkley on most people's lists and I just don't see it.  I have him rated closer to #10 in this class than #2.  He has a weird top heavy built to his body.  He's not very elusive.  I don't see him creating much in the way of yardage.  Most of his big runs come from perfect blocking.  He's not the type of guy who you can put behind a mediocre offensive line and get major production from.  I'm not saying he won't be effective in the NFL.  He's just not anywhere close to being the #2 RB in what is an absolutely LOADED RB class.

Frankly, i kinda like this list for this thread.  Minus Denzel Ward.  I get that he's not as big as ideal in a CB, but he's a natural, athletic corner who plays a lot bigger than his size.

 

The rest though, i can get behind.

Roquan Smith - i like his game and think he's going to be a great LBer for someone, but with his frame and skillset, i can't help but think he's going to be either a 4-3 WLB or a 3-4 WILL inside.  Which is becoming more and more important in today's game...but is that a top-10 value position?  I'm not convinced.  It's a crucial spot, but also a tough spot to have that sort of gamebreaking impact from.  There are some other really exciting WLB guys i love in this draft too.

Tremaine Edmunds - obviously has all the athletic tools, and has some games where he looks the part.  Has games where he doesn't really look the part though, and is still not entirely settled as an inside LBer.  Always a risk when teams are looking at a guys length and projecting them as someone to move outside and do something different than what they mostly did on film.

Derrius Guice - i think i like this guy more than most here, but the talk of him as a 1st round RB is too much for me.  I think he's got every ability to be a solid workhorse 3 down RB for somebody for a long time, but i don't see a "special" back there.  There's no standout tone-setting quality there, that i'd want in a 1st round RB...when the market is always littered with serviceable "guys" of various quality.

 

I'll add for my contribution:

James Daniels, C Iowa - I know he's not touted as a super high pick, but even 1st round feels rich to me.  He moves easy and he makes a lot of smart adjustments with great combo blocks, but man...he's a Center who i rarely see mano-a-mano moving people effectively.  I really question his play strength.  I've seen him get knocked on his buttock by blitzing LBers, and just generally ends up on the ground too much or on the wrong side of things when he gets singled up with an opponent to beat.  Despite the nice movement, he seems to struggle to find guys to actually block at the second level quite a bit.  I think he's got the skillset to "hide" well enough inside of a solid line, but he doesn't seem like the sort of anchor i'd want to see in a real 1st round Center draft selection.

Hayden Hurst, TE, South Carolina - Everything about him is just..."okay".  He's got an okay frame, catches the ball okay, runs okay routes with okay athleticism.  He's okay as a blocker, and is okay off the field as a clear "football is my second choice" guy who works hard enough.  I think he's a safe bet to be an "okay" TE in the league.  But at the same time...he's already Brandon Weeden old, not appreciably more polished than some other guys, and doesn't have anything that really stands out.  Not the sort of special "upside" i'd want in a 1st round TE, where he's often been discussed.

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On 3/29/2018 at 5:07 PM, VanS said:

Good one.  I forgot to include him in my initial list.  He's another guy I'm also not impressed by.  He isn't even one of my top 5 rated WRs in this class.  I have Antonio Callaway (Florida), Equanimeous St. Brown (Notre Dame), DJ Moore (Maryland), Michael Gallup (Colorado St.), and Anthony Miller (Memphis) rated higher than him.

Calloway should go in the 5th round due to his serious red flags.  Great talent but not a great person.  Ridley is the best route runner of the bunch.  This is a very weak WR class.

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On 3/31/2018 at 6:26 PM, AlNFL19 said:

I agree on Chubb. I gave him a very good grade but not a Top-5-in-the-class grade. I like Landry, though. I haven't scouted Hurst yet, so I have no comment on him.

Pretty much where I’m at with Chubb. He’s a solid DE and the best in this class but he’s not an elite/blue chip type of guy. 

Hes pretty much Ogbah, IMO (which is pretty good).

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