Josh Allen

[VanS]

59 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Lulz.  I'm not sure you understand what project QB means.  It means you're toolsy, but in terms of projecting there's more questions that need to be asked.  Allen is the project QB, not Mayfield.

Player A: 4.75 40, 33.5" vertical, 9'11" broad, 6.9 3 cone
Player B: 4.84 40, 29" vertical, 9'3" broad, 7.0 3 cone

Player is Josh Allen, Player B is Baker Mayfield.  I'd really LOVE to know where you're drawing the line what is considered good athleticism, and what is athletic.  My guess is something like 4.8/30", 9'6", and 6.95 or something along those lines.  Neither one is a plus athlete, but calling Mayfield unathletic is a joke.

Josh Allen is 6'5" 240 lbs while Mayfield is 6'0" 215 lbs.  When you take the difference in size into account, that is what makes the gap in those numbers larger than the numerical values you posted.  Josh Allen has a much larger body and he's moving it at a faster speed than Mayfield. 

4.84 40 yard dash and a 29" vertical at 6'0" 215 lbs is unathletic.  No other way to slice it.  If you think Mayfield will be able to run around on NFL defenses you are sorely mistaken.

This isn't the Big 12 anymore.

[VanS]

7 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

Is he as ready as Dobbs?  IIBS

I never said Dobbs was ready to play last year.  I only said he would eventually be the best from that class.  And in this case, I didn't say Josh Allen was the most ready either.  Just that he was far more ready than Mayfield and Darnold.

The QB most ready to play now is Lamar Jackson (because of his athleticism) and Rosen if you can surround him with good talent on the offensive line and at the skill positions.

[CWood21]

15 minutes ago, VanS said:

Josh Allen is 6'5" 240 lbs while Mayfield is 6'0" 215 lbs.  When you take the difference in size into account, that is what makes the gap in those numbers larger than the numerical values you posted.  Josh Allen has a much larger body and he's moving it at a faster speed than Mayfield. 

4.84 40 yard dash and a 29" vertical at 6'0" 215 lbs is unathletic.  No other way to slice it.  If you think Mayfield will be able to run around on NFL defenses you are sorely mistaken.

This isn't the Big 12 anymore.

That wasn't the point I'm trying to make.  Neither one of them are going to run around defenses, and if you think Josh Allen is you're going to be mistaken.  Unlike the Bills, the Browns actually made a concerted effort to protect Baker Mayfield.  The Bills OL is miserable to say the least, and I think all of the Browns' IOL would easily start for them.  If you want to draft the better athlete at QB, go right ahead.  Just don't be surprised when he's out of the league in 2 years.

[Iamcanadian]

15 minutes ago, VanS said:

I never said Dobbs was ready to play last year.  I only said he would eventually be the best from that class.  And in this case, I didn't say Josh Allen was the most ready either.  Just that he was far more ready than Mayfield and Darnold.

The QB most ready to play now is Lamar Jackson (because of his athleticism) and Rosen if you can surround him with good talent on the offensive line and at the skill positions.

Well, I think we can put your Dobbs thoughts in the garbage can for good, because if Pittsburgh thought even for a minute that Dobbs had any chance to develop, there is no way they waste a pick on Rudolph. It is an absolute decimal point to Dobbs' career possibilities!!!

As for who is the most ready, I put Rosen and Mayfield at the top of the list, however in Rosen's case, I just have to wonder how many games before he suffers another injury and is lost for the season.

I would definitely rate Allen as the least likely to be ready as his mechanics need a lot of work!!!

[Iamcanadian]

26 minutes ago, VanS said:

Josh Allen is 6'5" 240 lbs while Mayfield is 6'0" 215 lbs.  When you take the difference in size into account, that is what makes the gap in those numbers larger than the numerical values you posted.  Josh Allen has a much larger body and he's moving it at a faster speed than Mayfield. 

4.84 40 yard dash and a 29" vertical at 6'0" 215 lbs is unathletic.  No other way to slice it.  If you think Mayfield will be able to run around on NFL defenses you are sorely mistaken.

This isn't the Big 12 anymore.

I am not expecting Mayfield to run around defenses on any consistent basis, but his movement skills in the pocket are first rate and he does seem to understand when to run and when not to run. Running is always a last option for him.

I am sure Brady's athletic skills are limited, but his movement skills in the pocket are top notch and even he can take off running on occasion and it has nothing to do with size, 40 time, or verticals!!! 

[BayRaider]

2 hours ago, VanS said:

LOL.  No.  The biggest project QB in the 1st round was Baker Mayfield.  He's undersized, unathletic, and came from an air raid offense.  Josh Allen on the other hand has plus size, good athleticism, and played in a pro-style offense his entire college career.  He's far more ready to play now than Mayfield or Darnold.

 

Lol more ready than Darnold? Not even close. Just because Allen played in a pro system doesn't mean he's ready. Allen wasn't even very good in college. He's being drafted mostly on potential and size just like Bortles in was in 2014 (although I'm not saying he'll be another Bortles).

[VanS]

2 hours ago, CWood21 said:

That wasn't the point I'm trying to make.  Neither one of them are going to run around defenses, and if you think Josh Allen is you're going to be mistaken.  Unlike the Bills, the Browns actually made a concerted effort to protect Baker Mayfield.  The Bills OL is miserable to say the least, and I think all of the Browns' IOL would easily start for them.  If you want to draft the better athlete at QB, go right ahead.  Just don't be surprised when he's out of the league in 2 years.

If anyone is gonna be outta the league in 2 years it'll be Mayfield.  And while Josh Allen won't be a prolific runner, he can buy time in the pocket like Carson Wentz and his athleticism will allow him to do some designed runs near the goaline like Wentz.

Also I don't know why you keep assuming Mayfield is gonna play this year.  Tyrod Taylor is already a solid NFL starter and will start this year as long as he stays healthy.

[Iamcanadian]

6 minutes ago, VanS said:

If anyone is gonna be outta the league in 2 years it'll be Mayfield.  And while Josh Allen won't be a prolific runner, he can buy time in the pocket like Carson Wentz and his athleticism will allow him to do some designed runs near the goaline like Wentz.

Also I don't know why you keep assuming Mayfield is gonna play this year.  Tyrod Taylor is already a solid NFL starter and will start this year as long as he stays healthy.

If Taylor is such an accomplished starter why did Buffalo trade him and draft Allen??? "Solid" seems a bit much to me!!!

Taylor will start no more than 7 to 9 games before Mayfield takes over the team, if not sooner.

[VanS]

2 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Well, I think we can put your Dobbs thoughts in the garbage can for good, because if Pittsburgh thought even for a minute that Dobbs had any chance to develop, there is no way they waste a pick on Rudolph. It is an absolute decimal point to Dobbs' career possibilities!!!

As for who is the most ready, I put Rosen and Mayfield at the top of the list, however in Rosen's case, I just have to wonder how many games before he suffers another injury and is lost for the season.

I would definitely rate Allen as the least likely to be ready as his mechanics need a lot of work!!!

Green Bay Packers cut Kurt Warner while keeping Ty Detmer on the roster in 1994.  Pittsburgh Steelers cut James Harrison several times early in his career before he became the Defensive Player of the Year in 2008.  Redskins have twice drafted a QB in the 1st round that was eventually beaten out by a QB they drafted in Day 3 of that very same draft (Health Shuler/Gus Frerotte in 1994 and RG3/Kirk Cousins in 2012).  St. Louis Rams were ready to start Trent Green ahead of Kurt Warner in 1999 and only an injury to Trent Green started what developed into a Hall of Fame career for Kurt Warner and arguably one of the best offenses in NFL history with the Greatest Show on Turf.  Same thing with Tom Brady and the Patriots.  It took an injury to Drew Bledsoe for Tom Brady to see the field as well.

I could keep going and name countless front office blunders by NFL teams where the better player emerged despite the front office and coaches mistakes rather than because of it.  What Pittsburgh thinks is not dispositive in this situation.  They could think Dobbs has no shot as a starter in the NFL and he could still prove them wrong.  James Harrison did so to this very same organization.  As well as many other players over the year.

[VanS]

2 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

If Taylor is such an accomplished starter why did Buffalo trade him and draft Allen??? "Solid" seems a bit much to me!!!

Taylor will start no more than 7 to 9 games before Mayfield takes over the team, if not sooner.

Cause front offices in the NFL and coaches make dumb decisions all the time.  Look no further than the Bills benching Tyrod Taylor for a rookie QB who ended up throwing 5 INTs in the 1st half of a NFL game.

You guys place too much faith into the decision-making of these NFL teams.  They make dumb decisions continually every year.  The only thing that changes is who is making the dumb decisions.

[VanS]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

Lol more ready than Darnold? Not even close. Just because Allen played in a pro system doesn't mean he's ready. Allen wasn't even very good in college. He's being drafted mostly on potential and size just like Bortles in was in 2014 (although I'm not saying he'll be another Bortles).

When will ya'll learn that stats and wins are just as much a by-product of what you have around you as it is a by-product of your ability?

Josh Allen was very good in college.  He carried a very untalented team on his back and made them a lot better than they really were.  He's the only reason his football team even won a game last year.  Just look at how they performed when he was out.  They lost to a 2-win team whose only other win other than for beating Wyoming was over an FCS team.

It wouldn't shock me if Josh Allen is the Offensive Rookie of the Year next season and leads the Bills to the playoffs.  He's far more ready to play and play at a high level than you or anyone else thinks.