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Josh Allen


Kiwibrown

drafting josh Allen  

144 members have voted

  1. 1. Id draft Josh Allen



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I remember making a lot of similar arguments for Christian Hackenberg that I've seen some make with Josh Allen in this thread (doesn't mean they're automatically wrong).  But I remember harping on the fact that after his impressive freshman year, CH was left with a historically bad OL (not an exaggeration) and a very young WR corps that couldn't separate once Allen Robinson left, in a bad offense that didn't fit his skillset against tough competition week in and week out.

I was steadfast in that he had a good arm, was big, incredibly smart, had a pretty release, had good footwork under center, and had even produced at a high level as a freshman in a pro-style system.  I doubled down in saying that those who simply looked at the dip in numbers and pointed out his poor completion % were presenting shallow arguments without context.  Now, maybe he became a victim of David Carr syndrome.  Maybe it's that the Jets were a complete mess and were one of the worst landing spots for him. 

Maybe those arguments I made for Hackenberg will hold true for Allen.  But I have to admit, I'm pretty gun shy on Allen as a result.

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9 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

He's this year's Patrick Mahomes II. What more is there to say?

J

Kind of a lazy comparison just based on arm talent. Drastically different college careers, in both production and team/conference situation. Both are considered excellent athletes with flaws, but the flaws aren't quite the same. Mahomes's criticisms dealt with footwork and a bit of gunslinging. His accuracy was never really a concern coming out, which is the big point of contention with Allen. Same to a lesser degree with timing on throws. They do share the gunslinging, though. But even with that, Mahomes had a 2.1% INT rate to Allen's 3.2%.

Mahomes is an easy comparison, because he's the recent guy with a similarish arm talent, but that's about it.

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You say that like comparing arm strength was nothing. There is a lot more: lesser known school, less talented team, in short similar overcomes and a carry-the-team mentailty. The arm strength--all the physicality-- is very important, but the real comparison is growth potential.  These are the not-ready-to-play guys with unlimited upside.  Style differences and accuracy have more to do with placement and scheme.

The thing that did not come out last year was Mahomes' intensity. The teams probably saw more of it in the interviews than we ever saw from the sidelines. Does 
Allen have the intense desire?

J

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3 hours ago, lancerman said:

He’s struggled with accuracy and it doesn’t get easier to throw in the NFL

Just thinking the way his accuracy is discussed is overblown ... in games his accuracy looks pretty decent, he does miss badly once in a while ... but so did Cam Newton in college ... remember cam throwing some insanely ugly ducks in college because of lousy mechanics, and hes definitely improved it in the NFL.

And before anyone gets into stats Cam definitely had better WRs and a system that got him a high count of easier passes wide open screens crossers, plays off his runs.

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6 minutes ago, KBS756 said:

Just thinking the way his accuracy is discussed is overblown ... in games his accuracy looks pretty decent, he does miss badly once in a while ... but so did Cam Newton in college ... remember cam throwing some insanely ugly ducks in college because of lousy mechanics, and hes definitely improved it in the NFL.

And before anyone gets into stats Cam definitely had better WRs and a system that got him a high count of easier passes wide open screens crossers, plays off his runs.

Cam Newton is the guy that always comes to mind to me when people argue the accuracy. I know that he was a 66% guy in college, but people can't tell me that they thought he was / is actually that accurate throwing the football. He's not. Do I think that Allen is any worse accuracy wise? Yes and no - he has some balls that are just cracked out every once in a while. A screen pass that bounces 4 feet in front of the receiver for example. Just more "wth throws" as someone said earlier. But taking those out, I don't think he's a less accurate quarterback than either Cam or Kaep. Now granted, he doesn't have their mobility and running ability - his is good, but not that good, but I also do think that he is more advanced as a passer, so it offsets a little bit. I really don't see a reason why the accuracy is the end all be all for him here - I think he can be accurate enough to succeed. I don't see a reason that he can't be 60-62% at the next level. It's not the best, but it's good enough to succeed in my opinion. 

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On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 6:51 AM, BleedTheClock said:

Man there are some big-time haters on here. Every QB prospect has flaws. Josh Allen is hated on because it's cool to hate him methinks. Everyone gets drafted because of their traits. Flaws are overlooked at every single position because nobody is perfect.

And a lot of these big-armed QB's that failed in the NFL came from spread systems, had long exaggerated deliveries, had issues reading a defense, and created a ton of turnovers. They also player with more talented players. Literally all of them. Because Wyoming is as bad of a D1 program as you'll find. People just don't want to like Josh Allen. They cite his completion percentage but don't take into context why it was so low. Accuracy isn't great on Allen, for sure. But it's not as bad as the numbers would lead people to believe. He doesn't get to take easy completions all game long on checkdowns and screens. He's driving the football down the field off of play action 90% of the time. Also, his WR's aren't ever open. He has the least talented WR group on the planet and he's constantly scanning the field frantically looking for someone to get free. For a dude that buys as much time as he does running around and extending plays, the fact that his WR's can't win in that amount of time is pathetic. If you put any of the other top 3 QB's at Wyoming I think the narrative would be similar on them as well. Context, people.

 

He's my #4 rated QB, but I'd be shocked if he fell out of the top 5. If I needed a QB, I'd have no problems taking him in the top 5. I wouldn't even throw something through the TV if my Browns took him #1 overall, although I do think Darnold is going to be better & safer.

No, its because his mental side is severely lacking, and QB is mostly mental. It doesn't matter if you can throw the ball 75 yards when you can't hit an 8 yard slant.

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48 minutes ago, KBS756 said:

Just thinking the way his accuracy is discussed is overblown ... in games his accuracy looks pretty decent, he does miss badly once in a while ... but so did Cam Newton in college ... remember cam throwing some insanely ugly ducks in college because of lousy mechanics, and hes definitely improved it in the NFL.

And before anyone gets into stats Cam definitely had better WRs and a system that got him a high count of easier passes wide open screens crossers, plays off his runs.

Josh Allen doesn’t have the run game Cam has to fall back on. When Cam’s banged up or the run game is limited he becomes mediocre when forced as a pocket passer.  Accuracy is a big deal and it rarely improves in the league. If anything it gets worse 

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4 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Josh Allen doesn’t have the run game Cam has to fall back on. When Cam’s banged up or the run game is limited he becomes mediocre when forced as a pocket passer.  Accuracy is a big deal and it rarely improves in the league. If anything it gets worse 

But as I said, i'd argue that Allen is far more advanced as a pocket passer, going through progressions, etc. Now, maybe that flatlines at the next level, I don't know. But if Cam can complete 58% of his passes at the NFL level, and I don't view Allen as being any less accurate but more advanced in going through reads, seeing the field, etc, I see no reason he can't be in that 60-62 range. 

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