Apparition Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, youngosu said: Who is gonna establish this union? Right now colleges don't even consider them employees, you think colleges are gonna let them unionize? Because the NFL wants them too? You have to get the ball rolling somehow. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's absolutely in the players' interest to agitate on this front. I don't know if they can follow the model that grad students have used to push for unionization, but there are definitely legal avenues they can explore to at a minimum be recognized as employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Starless said: You have to get the ball rolling somehow. It's not going to happen overnight, but it's absolutely in the players' interest to agitate on this front. I don't know if they can follow the model that grad students have used to push for unionization, but there are definitely legal avenues they can explore to at a minimum be recognized as employees. Sure, they could try but as I said above the end result would be most schools shutting down most of their athletic programs and players would be in even worse shape than now. Its simply not going to happen. If you believe players need to be paid to keep playing past high school than you should call for the NFL to establish such a league, colleges are never gonna do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 13 minutes ago, youngosu said: Most sports lose money, most athletic departments lose money. If the NCAA were somehow able to force schools to pay players it would be the end of most college athletic programs and you'd end up with even less guys for the NFL to choose from. The Big Ten, Pac 12, ACC, and all the small conferences will never agree to pay its players directly even if they could afford it (and most of the schools couldn't) so you'd be left with the SEC and parts of the Big 12. You'd go from 130 FBS schools to around 20. $11 billion in tax-free annual revenue for a "non-profit" organization... ???? (note: this is the Marc Edelman figure. I've seen other numbers that suggest it's much less, but given how corrupt the NCAA is, I'm more inclined to believe this figure) I dunno, somehow I have a hard time believing they couldn't make it work. Revenue sharing would have to be instituted somehow to preserve lower-level programs. But as things stand right now it's probably in the best interest of most DII and DIII programs to shut down anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biletnikoff Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Don't worry,plenty of college jocks have been paid for years, the nfl and the ncaa work in unison with the billions in tv money. Some of that tv money and your tax dollars are paying college jocks and the coaches. Any jock walking into a stadium full of fans on national tv is definitely getting paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Starless said: $11 billion in annual revenue for a "non-profit" organization... ???? I dunno, somehow I have a hard time believing they couldn't make it work. Sure that 11 billion sounds like a ton when you don't put it in context. In reality that money is spread across nearly 1300 universities that participate in NCAA sanctioned sports. Its not like its 50 schools (or even a couple hundred) splitting that cash, its 1281 schools as of this moment. http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ Take a look for yourself, most athletic departments have to borrow money from the university general fund just to break even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, youngosu said: Sure that 11 billion sounds like a ton when you don't put it in context. In reality that money is spread across nearly 1300 universities that participate in NCAA sanctioned sports. Its not like its 50 schools (or even a couple hundred) splitting that cash, its 1281 schools as of this moment. http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/ Take a look for yourself, most athletic departments have to borrow money from the university general fund just to break even. This is where I start talking about excessive salaries for athletic directors, coaches and conference commissioners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, Starless said: I dunno, somehow I have a hard time believing they couldn't make it work. Revenue sharing would have to be instituted somehow to preserve lower-level programs. But as things stand right now it's probably in the best interest of most DII and DIII programs to shut down anyway. Really? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. And even if it were in the best interest of those schools to shut down their athletic programs how would it be in the best interests of athletes (or the NFL for that matter) to have those programs shut down? And because I am curious, how would this sharing work? You gonna force Alabama to take money someone donated to the Alabama athletic department and give it to Tennessee? Or are you gonna take Alabama tax money used to run Alabama and force Alabama to give that tax money to Tennessee? The only revenue that can be shared is pretty much already being shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Starless said: This is where I start talking about excessive salaries for athletic directors, coaches and conference commissioners. Okay, I just want you to make this really clear. You want players to get more compensation but somehow think that would include less compensation for the people making the decisions? I don't understand that logic at all. If players start getting more money its only going to increase the amount AD's, coaches, and commissioners demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, youngosu said: Okay, I just want you to make this really clear. You want players to get more compensation but somehow think that would include less compensation for the people making the decisions? I don't understand that logic at all. If players start getting more money its only going to increase the amount AD's, coaches, and commissioners demand. My point being that there are serious questions to be asked about the way the NCAA currently allocates its money and parallel to the players trying to be recognized as employees and unionizing, there needs to be an inquiry into the organization's finances. https://thebiglead.com/2016/03/14/reminder-ncaa-amateurism-is-a-corrupt-sham-we-are-all-complicit/ This article summarizes the worst of it pretty well... and that's just what's known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Starless said: My point being that there are serious questions to be asked about the way the NCAA currently allocates its money and parallel to the players trying to be recognized as employees and unionizing, there needs to be an inquiry into the organization's finances. Corruption within the NCAA is an unrelated topic. The "NCAA" doesn't control most of the money to begin with. Its not like the money goes to the NCAA then they decide what to pay coaches. The NCAA doesn't even touch most of the money. It goes directly to the conferences and schools. The NCAA is corrupt, I agree with you on that but the idea that because the NCAA is corrupt it means there is plenty of revenue to start paying all the athletes is simply untrue. The NCAA can be corrupt and colleges can't afford to pay all their athletes (beyond what they get now), both of those statement can be true. If the NFL is worried about losing players, the NFL should start a league, advocating for schools in the NCAA to shut down division 2 and 3 along with eliminating multiple sports in division 1 to protect the NFL seems silly to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngosu Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 http://www.businessinsider.com/paying-college-athletes-would-cost-200-million-each-year-2011-8 Interesting article on the topic here. This is also likely the only realistic way it could ever be done. Lets assume schools are willing to pay the players the maximum work study amount ($7,000 per year nearly a decade ago), based on numbers that are nearly a decade old it would cost schools over 1 billion dollars per year just for division 1 athletes to get paid not counting the cost to the taxpayer. And this is the only realistic way you'd ever see this done. And its barely realistic. Another interesting read on the topic https://venngage.com/blog/paying-college-athletes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Wake up guys, colleges already pay players under the table. Few stars in either football or basketball are not being paid and it has been that way for many a year!!! The NCAA simply looks the other way since almost every Div 1 school does it! College sports in both basketball and football, are huge businesses and anytime you have a business that brings in millions to your school, teams are going to find a way to ensure success and if that means paying players under the table, so be it. Recruiting has long been a very dirty business and suddenly, recruits from extremely poor families are driving new cars and their parents are moving into new housing close to the school. Heck, back in the late 50's, a letter whose envelop carried the University of Kentucky insignia, broke open in the post office containing $20,000, addressed to a top basketball recruit. If they were paying $20,000 in the 50's, imagine what a top recruit might get today!!! If the school isn't paying them, then their boosters are and there isn't much the NCAA can do about it, since they would half to punish most of the top schools in college sports!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 There is no doubt that both concussions and serious injuries are being looked at by a lot of parents, it is one of the reasons, the NFL includes non guaranteed money when talking about salaries, they want to create an illusion about how much a player can make playing pro football even though they make peanuts their first 3 to 5 years in the league and outside of QB's their salaries do not come even close to what MLB and NBA players make and a lot of it is in non guaranteed money which the majority of players never get to see!!! There is no way in hell, you should ever make your son a RB, they make the least amount of money over their short careers, no matter how great they are! Given the size of NFL rosters, you have a better shot at becoming a pro in that sport, just do not expect to be paid like a MLB or NBA player is! The NFL really does not care if fewer and fewer players actually play football, for all poor kids, scholarships are a way out of the slums where white politicians have kept them, so they have no real choice but to play and if the talent declines, nobody will notice it, because what is left will still produce stars even if they are inferior to previous generations. the stats will remain the same and in reality, each generation of fans really do not have a clue about previous generations of players, they just look at the stats or championship rings and assume their generation is the best !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 3 hours ago, DontTazeMeBro said: We’re talking about teenage boys. No one pays them to eat laundry detergent or ride down hills in shopping carts but they still do it God bless America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Tbh I think your timeline is a little off. The real risk for the NFL is much earlier, its kids not playing or not being allowed to play football from a very early age. And for those kids and more importantly parents the idea of maybe getting a stipend at a D1 school isn't going to be the decisive factor. Some 18 year old kid whose played football their entire life and thinks they have a real shot at the NFL is probably not going to walk away, money or not. And if they do walk away its unlikely a little extra cash would change their mind, since they are already walking away from $100K+ of scholarship money and a shot, in their mind, at millions in the NFL. Lot of good reasons to pay players or better idea in my opinion allow endorsements but I think this is probably pretty far down that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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