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DEN signs P Marquette King

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2 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

True and unless they sure up the QB spot they will be using him alot. But given their weapons even an average QB should get the job done moving the ball

Our weapons are overrated.  DT and Sanders are still great in the short game but DT isn’t the YAC terror in his Peyton days.   Sanders is starting to get dinged more and more.  After that we have no proven TE or 3rd WR.   And our T play and LG play was horrendous in pass pro.   We can fix 1 spot in the draft on the OL and likely add either a difference maker pass catching RB with 3-down ability to upgrade CJ Anderson / Booker combo, or a 3rd WR to be a successor to these guys in Day 2.   But those picks take time, unless we go Nelson or Barkley 1.5 (both plug and play).  

An average QB will be an upgrade on last year, but we don’t have the supporting cast to make an average QB talent-wise be that successful.   Like MIN had in all facets of their O over us.   So sadly King will likely be busy for us.   

The reality is we need a lot of holes addressed so P isn’t a one year priority.  That’s why King being signed at value is important.  We do likely have to part ways with McManus next year (his salary guaranteed this year so a trade is our only way out this year) to balance the books cap wise in 2019 for more health.  Hard to justify 6-7M on kickers unless you have $ to spare and we don’t.   But King taking a significant discount for 3 years it’s hard to pan the signing...as long as his antics stay off the field.  The risk is much lower with the discount already in hand.   We’ll see.  

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Thomas never made that jump to elite #1 that I expected him too. Good player just never made that final push that I thought she’d get and be discussed with Bryant and Jones as the top guy in the league. 

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1 minute ago, Boltstrikes said:

Thomas never made that jump to elite #1 that I expected him too. Good player just never made that final push that I thought she’d get and be discussed with Bryant and Jones as the top guy in the league. 

DT and Bryant are good examples of WR's who are near-elite at their peak - but weren't perfect players skill-wise.   DT isn't a 50-50 vertical ball-fighter and great against press coverage - but he was lethal with the ball in his hands, and great at boxing out and using his body to get position on back-shoulder throws and slants/outs.   He still has those box-out and body position skills.   He's also unbelievably tough, although he got unfairly maligned for taking plays off on the sidelines, he's actually played through injuries that required off-season surgery without missing any games for 2 straight years.    But he was a guy who needed a good QB to multiply his talents.  His talents are lost with an average to below average guy now.   When Peyton was awful, he was still good enough to be an impact WR in 2015, but obviously the gong show in 2016-17 has demonstrated also where DT doesn't win.   Still, he's at least aged better than Bryant, that's for sure.   It's funny, up until 2015's playoffs, DT was cast as the guy DEN shouldn't have paid and focused on Sanders instead, now the PR is much against Sanders given the decline in his production and some of the bad off-the-field optics.   The truth is both were great weapons and still are effective weapons - just no longer elite difference-makers on their own.   I would say if we didn't have them in 2016-17, our O would have been even worse, they certainly bailed out our QB's more than the other way around.

Anyways, all of which to say - without MUCH better OL pass pro, a major 3rd weapon at RB/WR/TE, even an average QB talent-wise won't move the ball up & down the field consistently with us.  So King will certainly be needed. 

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Just to circle back on some discussion on King's impact - along with many others, I couldn't resist poking some fun at Gruden for cutting King.  To me, it's more how it went down, than the decision to cut a P.  But to that point - cutting an expensive punter is certainly justifiable if your team isn't good.    And if you can get a cheaper P, great. 

A punter, even as good as King, doesn't have a big impact on a bad team.     King's impact is what's termed in academic terms as a "multiplier" - he will augment a team's baseline talent with good ST play in the punting game.   He certainly helps our punt coverage be much better with his hang time, and his ability to get the ball downed inside the 20 with his ball placement skills.   That's undeniable for pretty much any team.   This augments an elite D, and it helps with an O that can move the chains enough to win ToP.   In short, good teams benefit greatly from a P. 

But if the O struggles perpetually, or the D isn't elite, that benefit is reduced significantly.   The Rams have had one of the best P's around, and when their O was awful under Jeff Fisher and the D good but not great, the Rams suffered through miserable season after miserable season.    If you are a contender, having a P like King multiplies the play of the D and O - but if your team isn't great on O & D, the relative difference isn't nearly as significant, and in fact, it's probably trivial by itself.   Guys like him matter in close games and between closely matched teams - but if we are overmatched in the other areas, King's superiority barely makes a difference.   

If people think King is getting us to being a better team by himself, it's the other way around - if DEN can build a better team on O and restore the D back to 2016 levels of play (2015 is a pipe dream with our personnel, even 2016 is a reach right now on paper), King's impact will magnify.   He'll have a positive impact unless his antics spill onto the field.   There is no argument that he's a positional upgrade.   But the actual impact is dependent on how much better we'll be on O, and how much worse we'll be on D, after the changes this offseason.   ST is a huge difference-maker when teams are matched up closely - and unlike O and D, coaching has an even bigger impact, given it's back-of-roster talent being used.   So ST shouldn't be understated.  But if your ST are better, but D is worse and O is still just mediocre, well, it's still a bad team...or at least, not a good team.

Before ppl think I'm down on the signing, I'm not - because Elway got King to agree to a discount.   If he was the highest-paid P, I'd say it was completely wasted.  Keep in mind his 3 yr / 7M salary is only top 10 if it pays out completely - it's not even fully guaranteed.   So it's hard to argue with investing such a small amount of extra $ for the 2019-20 impact.    I've been saying it all offseason, we are realistically not a 2018 contender.  Too many holes, too many needs where ppl need to step up who've either not shown it yet or have major injury risk/recoveries with unknown outcomes.  So getting guys who have long-term appeal matters just as much as upgrading 2018.  Assuming he can keep the antics off the field, King would still likely be a no-brainer 2019-20 asset at that salary (although I think we'd be well served to go cheaper at K for 2019 to keep the team fiscally balanced).  So I'm all for it.    

Edited by Broncofan
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Realized this was in wrong thread lol...


So as a post-script, turns out it's a 1-year, 2M deal in terms of guaranteed $, and a 2-year/4M deal with the 2019 salary not guaranteed - and unless he's the 1st team allpro P in 2019, then it's 2M in 2020.  The 7M comes in if he's 1st team all pro in 2019 - then the 2020 salary is 3M.  

The final details:

So, for perspective:

-King's 2018, 2019 & 2020 salary are 1.5M, 2M and 2M - unless he is the top punter in the NFL in 2019, and then it's 2020 3M.

-His 2019 & 2020 salaries are not guaranteed.  Only 1 year of guarantees - that's 500K bonus plus his 1.5M salary.

-If he's a problem, we cut bait with pretty much zero cap hit (367k to be exact) next year.   

-If he's the 2nd best punter in 2019, we still get him at 2M for 2019.

Now, breaking it down further:

-King's 1.67M cap hit puts him as the 19th highest paid punter for cap hit for 2018, behind Dustin Colquitt

-King's 2.133M cap hit puts him as the 14th highest paid punter for cap hit for 2019.  And..the 2M salary is not guaranteed.

And the kicker (pun intended)?  The 2020 salary is 2M unless he's literally the best punter in the league - if he's the 2nd or 3rd best, it's still 2M - and even then, it just increases to 3M, and it's still not guaranteed.  So again, no risk. 


A punter doesn't make us any better by itself, but man, that's a serious bargain for his level of performance, especially with the lack of 2019 / 2020 guaranteed $.  Leaves no risk if there is a problem, and a major discount from his prior OAK deal.  

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On 4/8/2018 at 6:17 PM, SteelKing728 said:

I'm glad a punter got a 3 page thread made over them.

I managed to create 4 page thread on Kevin Hogan.

so ... there!


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