Jordan Howard trade chatter

[ripsean21]

I don’t agree. Just my opinion. The rules are even worse for the defense now and I don’t think Bailey is as good as Norman. And honestly I don’t think Norman is a special player I think he’s a really really good player. Norman tackles better I’d say they both are about the same in the playmaker dept and I think Norman is alittle bit better at anticipating. Bailey was very good for a long time but it wasn’t like a lot of that time was with us.

I like Bailey I just honestly think there are a lot better CB’s then him and I think it’s close but Norman I do think is just slightly better

[Marcus21]

I am all in for Jordan Howard if the price is right. Our 5th and a conditional comp pick next year. I personally don’t think the asking price will be very high!  He checks all the boxes for me. Young, Productive, and High Character! He is far better than any other player we could get in the 5th round. It also allows us to target another starter in round 2! Round to is going to be loaded TEs CBs and WRs!

[ripsean21]

35 minutes ago, Marcus21 said:

I am all in for Jordan Howard if the price is right. Our 5th and a conditional comp pick next year. I personally don’t think the asking price will be very high!  He checks all the boxes for me. Young, Productive, and High Character! He is far better than any other player we could get in the 5th round. It also allows us to target another starter in round 2! Round to is going to be loaded TEs CBs and WRs!

For a 5th yeah heck why not!!! The whole second third or even a 4th are to rich for me.!!

[turtle28]

52 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

For a 5th yeah heck why not!!! The whole second third or even a 4th are to rich for me.!!

He’s still young and a proven starting rb. There is no guarantee ant RB we take in the draft will ever be as good as Howard, he’s definitely worth a mid round pick. We haven’t had a 1,000 yd back since Morris in 2014, Howard has the ability to end that drought for us if we could trade for him.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

Norman is a better CB then Bailey was and Howard isn’t as good a RB as Portis this would be a stupid trade!!! I know I’ll get killed for the Bailey comment but that’s my opinion Bailey was good he wasn’t great IMO.

Bailey will be a Hall of Fame inductee next year. Norman has only played at that level in one year of his career - 2015. Norman is a great corner, but Bailey was elite and he was one of the best ballhawks during his career as well, something Norman hasn’t shown except in 2015. In order for Norman to get on Bailey’s level he’s going to have to help lead the Redskins on playoff runs the way Bailey did for the Redskins in 99 and the Broncos and the way Norman did for the Panthers in 2015. Norman is also going to have to also start catching his interception opportunities instead of dropping them the way he has the last two years. Interceptions are key beyond just great coverage for how corners are viewed. Bailey was better at getting ints than Norman (5 his rookie & 2nd years, 10 & 8 in back to back years in Denv) and until Norman starts getting 4 or 5 ints per season, this isn’t even a true comparison.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000823496/article/who-should-be-in-the-hall-of-fame-picking-the-class-of-2019

Quote

Not only will Bailey ease into the Hall of Fame in his first year of eligibility -- his name belongs among the elite to ever play his position. Bailey was arguably the top cover corner in football during his prime, a bridge between the Deion Sanders and Darrelle Revis eras of shutting down one side of the field. Starting his fantastic career in Washington, Bailey learned from a legendary defensive back in Darrell Green, not only taking in tricks of the trade, but also learning how to prepare mentally and physically. Each would play a part in Bailey performing for over a decade at a high level. A top-flight athlete, his career spanned 15 seasons, 12 of which resulted in a Pro Bowl selection (with three netting first-team All-Pro honors). What a player.

[MKnight82]

1 hour ago, ripsean21 said:

I don’t agree. Just my opinion. The rules are even worse for the defense now and I don’t think Bailey is as good as Norman. And honestly I don’t think Norman is a special player I think he’s a really really good player. Norman tackles better I’d say they both are about the same in the playmaker dept and I think Norman is alittle bit better at anticipating. Bailey was very good for a long time but it wasn’t like a lot of that time was with us.

I like Bailey I just honestly think there are a lot better CB’s then him and I think it’s close but Norman I do think is just slightly better

Bailey was a HOFer dude.

[turtle28]

5 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Bailey was a HOFer dude.

Not yet, but next year Bailey will be in the hall of fame, he’s not eligible until 2019. He’ll go in with Tony González and Ed Reed.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I don’t agree. Just my opinion. The rules are even worse for the defense now and I don’t think Bailey is as good as Norman. And honestly I don’t think Norman is a special player I think he’s a really really good player. Norman tackles better I’d say they both are about the same in the playmaker dept and I think Norman is alittle bit better at anticipating. Bailey was very good for a long time but it wasn’t like a lot of that time was with us.

I like Bailey I just honestly think there are a lot better CB’s then him and I think it’s close but Norman I do think is just slightly better

Bailey spent the first 5 years of his career with the Redskins. He had 18 ints in those 5 years and as a rookie he helped the Redskins get to within a botched snap on a FG from beating the Bucs in the 99 playoffs and playing in the NFC championship game.

[ripsean21]

I get he was a beast again I’m not saying he wasn’t and I agree he is a HOF player. But let’s not act like he played during the Manning Brady era where there are going to be what 7 or 8 HOF QB’s in the same period. QB play during Baileys era wasn’t at the level it is now the rules for CB’s were way different and I’m just stating my case based on what I saw.

I’m not saying he wasn’t a heck of a player he was he was the best CB in a weaker era of CB play and QB play. Farve was probably the staple of the QB position for Baileys era and while Farve was a great QB he kinda exemplified what was going on in that era. Lots of turnovers and really very few QB’s were excelling and that could have been due to the fact CB’s could ride WR’s down the field. 

But let’s be real what Revis and Prime and what I’d say Peterson and Sherman and quite a few guys do now is more impressive! Bailey wasn’t single covering Randy Moss and TO and shutting them down like these guys are doing today. Just because Norman plays in a era where you have 10 guys you can argue all do something special shouldn’t fault him for the fact Bailey played in a era where he was simply better then the rest by far in a era where offenses weren’t as precise and didn’t execute a passing game like they do now with QB’s who execute their schemes to a tee. Just go down the list of top QB’s for Baileys era and go down the list now. You could honestly put fringe top 10 QB’s over top 5 guys in that time and that is the truth

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I get he was a beast again I’m not saying he wasn’t and I agree he is a HOF player. But let’s not act like he played during the Manning Brady era where there are going to be what 7 or 8 HOF QB’s in the same period. QB play during Baileys era wasn’t at the level it is now the rules for CB’s were way different and I’m just stating my case based on what I saw.

I’m not saying he wasn’t a heck of a player he was he was the best CB in a weaker era of CB play and QB play. Farve was probably the staple of the QB position for Baileys era and while Farve was a great QB he kinda exemplified what was going on in that era. Lots of turnovers and really very few QB’s were excelling and that could have been due to the fact CB’s could ride WR’s down the field. 

But let’s be real what Revis and Prime and what I’d say Peterson and Sherman and quite a few guys do now is more impressive! Bailey wasn’t single covering Randy Moss and TO and shutting them down like these guys are doing today. Just because Norman plays in a era where you have 10 guys you can argue all do something special shouldn’t fault him for the fact Bailey played in a era where he was simply better then the rest by far in a era where offenses weren’t as precise and didn’t execute a passing game like they do now with QB’s who execute their schemes to a tee. Just go down the list of top QB’s for Baileys era and go down the list now. You could honestly put fringe top 10 QB’s over top 5 guys in that time and that is the truth

What? Champ Bailey was drafted a year after Peyton Manning and in the same draft as Tom Brady. He played in more of the Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Kurt Warner and Big Ben era than any other corner in the NFL and he faced Brady, Manning, Big Ben and Rivers every year he made the playoffs.

The only guy from your list of 4 corners there who was more impressive is Deion Sanders because Deion is arguably the best corner to ever play the game. Bailey is in the discussion to be the next best behind him and in the conversation with Revis and Charles Woodson. Bailey was a better cover corner than Peterson and Sherman in my mind, Bailey was like Prime and Woodson, they rarely got beat and often times forced a lot of turnovers like in back to back years when Bailey had 5 ints as a rookie and 2nd yr player for the Redskins and when he had 10 and then 8 ints for the Broncos in back to back years. I think you have a bit of amnesia as to how good Bailey was last decade.

How old are you, do you even truly remember watching Bailey as a Redskins rookie in 99? 

Sherman has played mostly in a zone defense his entire career and just 1 side of the field with an elite FS - maybe a top 5 all-time - behind him. Bailey never played with a FS as elite as Earl Thomas.

Just because you don’t remember the good and great corners and safeties of Bailey’s era doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. Charles Woodson; Rod Woodson was still playing in Bailey’s first few years in the league and Bailey learned from Darrell Green his first 2 years in the NFL, Shawn Springs, Ty Law, Revis, Samari Rolle, DeAngelo Hall, Dre Bly, Asante Samuel, Nnamdi Asamough and I’m sure I’m missing some.

As for your last paragraph it’s actually the opposite of what your are saying, actually you’re entire 3 or 4 posts on this are exactly the opposite of what you’re claiming. The guys of today mostly play sides of the field and don’t go one on vs the NFL’s best corners, last decade and for the first few years of this decade when Bailey played, corners played more man to man and guys like Bailey did go 1 on 1 vs guys like Moss, TO, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Torrey Holt, Issac Bruce and Vincent Jackson all game and he shut them down.

I just honestly don’t know how you’re coming to the conclusion you’re coming to. Lastly, I’ll say this and I think most agree with this eventhough everyone loves Clinton Portis, if we had had Champ Bailey his entire career, we would have been better off. 

Bailey & Betts > Portis & Springs IMO and we would have kept that 2004 2nd round pick which could have ended up being a starting WR to go opposite Moss, a LG/C or a defensive player for us.

[Ghostnote]

12 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

For a 5th yeah heck why not!!! The whole second third or even a 4th are to rich for me.!!

So if the Bears asked for a 4th for Howard, knowing that he is a productive back, is only 23 and still on a rookie contract, you wouldnt do it? That could open up a top level prospect at 13 and 44, with the potential to still trade back. 

Considering we don't have a 3rd, if they asked for a future 3rd, by itself, then I would do that too. Hell, I would do a future 3rd and the later of our 5th's for Howard. I know what I am getting. Done deal. 

[turtle28]

44 minutes ago, mike23md said:

So if the Bears asked for a 4th for Howard, knowing that he is a productive back, is only 23 and still on a rookie contract, you wouldnt do it? That could open up a top level prospect at 13 and 44, with the potential to still trade back. 

Considering we don't have a 3rd, if they asked for a future 3rd, by itself, then I would do that too. Hell, I would do a future 3rd and the later of our 5th's for Howard. I know what I am getting. Done deal. 

Exactly. I can’t endorse this comment more!

This is a classic case of people overvaluing a mid round pick more than a definite top half of the league starter - which we don’t have currently at the position - and we hope to find in the draft, but may not.

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

What? Champ Bailey was drafted a year after Peyton Manning and in the same draft as Tom Brady. He played in more of the Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers, Kurt Warner and Big Ben era than any other corner in the NFL and he faced Brady, Manning, Big Ben and Rivers every year he made the playoffs.

The only guy from your list of 4 corners there who was more impressive is Deion Sanders because Deion is arguably the best corner to ever play the game. Bailey is in the discussion to be the next best behind him and in the conversation with Revis and Charles Woodson. Bailey was a better cover corner than Peterson and Sherman in my mind, Bailey was like Prime and Woodson, they rarely got beat and often times forced a lot of turnovers like in back to back years when Bailey had 5 ints as a rookie and 2nd yr player for the Redskins and when he had 10 and then 8 ints for the Broncos in back to back years. I think you have a bit of amnesia as to how good Bailey was last decade.

How old are you, do you even truly remember watching Bailey as a Redskins rookie in 99? 

Sherman has played mostly in a zone defense his entire career and just 1 side of the field with an elite FS - maybe a top 5 all-time - behind him. Bailey never played with a FS as elite as Earl Thomas.

Just because you don’t remember the good and great corners and safeties of Bailey’s era doesn’t mean they didn’t exist. Charles Woodson; Rod Woodson was still playing in Bailey’s first few years in the league and Bailey learned from Darrell Green his first 2 years in the NFL, Shawn Springs, Ty Law, Revis, Samari Rolle, DeAngelo Hall, Dre Bly, Asante Samuel, Nnamdi Asamough and I’m sure I’m missing some.

As for your last paragraph it’s actually the opposite of what your are saying, actually you’re entire 3 or 4 posts on this are exactly the opposite of what you’re claiming. The guys of today mostly play sides of the field and don’t go one on vs the NFL’s best corners, last decade and for the first few years of this decade when Bailey played, corners played more man to man and guys like Bailey did go 1 on 1 vs guys like Moss, TO, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Torrey Holt, Issac Bruce and Vincent Jackson all game and he shut them down.

I just honestly don’t know how you’re coming to the conclusion you’re coming to. Lastly, I’ll say this and I think most agree with this eventhough everyone loves Clinton Portis, if we had had Champ Bailey his entire career, we would have been better off. 

Bailey & Betts > Portis & Springs IMO and we would have kept that 2004 2nd round pick which could have ended up being a starting WR to go opposite Moss, a LG/C or a defensive player for us.

I remeber his rookie years all I’m really saying is I don’t remeber him actually locking guys down. He was very good at baiting QB’s. Idk I just remember watching Law Samuel and Woodson and just didn’t think he was with them. Again by no means I’m not saying he was bad I just value a lot more CB’s then I did Bailey it’s not disrespect or anything like that I just like other players game more.

[turtle28]

13 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

I remeber his rookie years all I’m really saying is I don’t remeber him actually locking guys down. He was very good at baiting QB’s. Idk I just remember watching Law Samuel and Woodson and just didn’t think he was with them. Again by no means I’m not saying he was bad I just value a lot more CB’s then I did Bailey it’s not disrespect or anything like that I just like other players game more.

Well the Hall of Fame will disagree. Bailey will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee next year and Ty Law and Asante Samuel probably won’t get into the Hall of Fame.

[ripsean21]

Just now, turtle28 said:

Well the Hall of Fame will disagree. Bailey will be a first ballot Hall of Fame inductee next year and Ty Law and Asante Samuel probably won’t get into the Hall of Fame.

I get that lol. Again I did say it’s not a popular opinion but there are people who have different preferences or standards or even just values to how players play. Just because I think Revis and Woodson were much better doesn’t mean it’s true to someone else. And part of my opinion happens to be based of circumstances. I love Sherman. He might not be asked to do this or that but if he’s doing what he’s asked to do and he’s all pro because what he does fits him why would I knock him for that? I can like Watt someone can like Donald and someone could say Sapp went against better OL’s and it’s just opinion and preference. 

Like im not saying I’m right or wrong I just say I value others more. I will say early AM had me tripping about the QB’s. But to the topic I like Howard but I value our own Rb. This team hasn’t drafted a RB in the first since the 60’s I think. It’s just my preference to not trade for a RB who is gonna have to be paid around the same time guys we’ve drafted will need to be paid. I’m not saying I would hate the move but I value our picks because we always talk about drafting here then when players are on the block we forget about drafting our own guys. In this class of RB’s I don’t see the value of trading for a guy when this class has a bunch of guys who can be better