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My ideal draft (fortuitous slidings)


Magnus-Viktor

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5 hours ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

To settle that dispute:

Dupree's best year:  40 tackles, 6 sacks, 1 PDef

Dupree's average year:  30 tackles, under 5 sacks, 1 Pdef, .3 FF

Watt's rookie year:  54 tackles, 7 sacks, SEVEN PDef, 1 INT, 1 FF

That blows Dupree out of the water and it is nowhere near debatable.  Hubbard = Watt.  Thus Hubbard >>>>>>>> Dupree.  Dupree is flashy with that burst, but that is literally the only thing he has.

I don't see this in the games, but I do see slowness off the snap and the lack of counter moves etc. All this talk of athleticism, but when it comes to dupree vs OT, its usually the same result with bud losing. Watt was already much better than dupree, despite if the stats appear similar on paper. A reason why I don't like stats is much of that is who they were made against and how. It's more accurate  to watch and if you can't stand watching the player (due to lack of skills/effectiveness) then it's a reason to hope we draft edge early on and move on. They will have dupree as the starter and he will continue on unless he gets hurt, so get used to it. If they pick up the 5th year option, then continue on to next year as well9_9

Wit RD1 edge picks like dupree and jarvis, I'm not cure I trust the FO with another RD1 edge pick. We got lucky with Watt, but there is a family history with Watt and the NFL tooxD.  UFA would have been good for helping out edge, but that hasn't happened either.

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7 hours ago, JLambert58 said:

Of course a rookie could do better than Dupree.  Watt did it last year.  

exactly.  Watt is a solid player, but not exactly JJ either ,  JJ Watt that is xD.   We should be grateful TJ got the chance last year. There was a time when our rookies never even were allowed to play on D, remember?  I don't care for dupree and it's one of the problems I have going into the 2018 season, him starting and knowing he will be the starter unless he is hurt.  He would have to improve drastically and I doubt that will happen or matter if he is still slow off the snap.  If every team has a Mamula award, dupree is the winner for the steelers. 

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11 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

I don't see this in the games, but I do see slowness off the snap and the lack of counter moves etc. All this talk of athleticism, but when it comes to dupree vs OT, its usually the same result with bud losing. Watt was already much better than dupree, despite if the stats appear similar on paper. A reason why I don't like stats is much of that is who they were made against and how. It's more accurate  to watch and if you can't stand watching the player (due to lack of skills/effectiveness) then it's a reason to hope we draft edge early on and move on. They will have dupree as the starter and he will continue on unless he gets hurt, so get used to it. If they pick up the 5th year option, then continue on to next year as well9_9

Wit RD1 edge picks like dupree and jarvis, I'm not cure I trust the FO with another RD1 edge pick. We got lucky with Watt, but there is a family history with Watt and the NFL tooxD.  UFA would have been good for helping out edge, but that hasn't happened either.

I see the burst from Dupree when he has chased down guys.  But yes, he has zero pass rush moves really, and is a pretty inferior player to me.  But some people buy into the potential and might think they can coach him up.  Maybe a schematic change.  I agree with stats, but other than stats, all we can go by is our personal opinion that he "looks" better or not.  So stats are the best way of comparing rather than stating opinion as fact.  Watt dominated games at times last year.  Splash plays.  You don't see those from Dupree much.  

I agree the FO appears brain dead when it comes to certain positions.  OLB (Watt aside) is the most glaring.  ILB isn't far behind though really, with only Shazier being a quality pick in my book, in over a decade.

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1 minute ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

I see the burst from Dupree when he has chased

Ok, that makes sense, but not off the snap for  edge pass rushing, just to clarify .  The FO has been lucky that certain players have fallen to them . DDC, Shazier are examples, and possibly Watt since even if he is 1/10th of the ability of his brother that still is better than most.  The FO does well with WR though, and we can't expect that for every position.  For me though is it about 8 years of starting RD1 OLB picks that were never starting quality? That really bothers me because it's a waste of RD1 pick and every year there are players in UFA that would be better as well. The result is that our edge is stagnated and the FO accepts that in order to try to validate their draft pick(s) .  Since they never got help for OLB in UFA, I can't see them trading dupree. Maybe they are happy with him, they could be and we will wait and see. If Watt gets hurt, what is the plan ? Dupree was terrible in the jags playoff game, will the FO remember that in the draft or UFA? So far, answer - NOPE:ph34r:

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11 hours ago, Chieferific said:

I believe that to be the harsh reality. I think Carter can be that guy but that leaves some unanswered questions. Are you gonna take him in the 1st? Who does that leave for ILB in the 2nd or later? Are you gonna gamble and hope he makes it to the 2nd?  I wait until the draft to decide on extending him. I have that much faith in Carter. If you are able to land him, cut Dupree. 

And that's where this idea takes, I'm sorry but this is the only way to put it, a turn for stupid.

Cutting Dupree does nothing to save money.  We don't have Moats anymore, so your main backup with be Chickilo who is worse than Dupree.  You would go into the season with only 4 OLB's on the roster, meaning to have the typical depth you would be spending another pick or UDFA to bring in another guy.  If Carter ends up busting, then you lost a guy that could give you even average play for nothing, just because.

Cutting Dupree just because you drafted someone could be the single dumbest thing this franchise could do.

Also, Carter is stupid overrated now.

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9 hours ago, 3rivers said:

Ok, that makes sense, but not off the snap for  edge pass rushing, just to clarify .  The FO has been lucky that certain players have fallen to them . DDC, Shazier are examples, and possibly Watt since even if he is 1/10th of the ability of his brother that still is better than most.  The FO does well with WR though, and we can't expect that for every position.  For me though is it about 8 years of starting RD1 OLB picks that were never starting quality? That really bothers me because it's a waste of RD1 pick and every year there are players in UFA that would be better as well. The result is that our edge is stagnated and the FO accepts that in order to try to validate their draft pick(s) .  Since they never got help for OLB in UFA, I can't see them trading dupree. Maybe they are happy with him, they could be and we will wait and see. If Watt gets hurt, what is the plan ? Dupree was terrible in the jags playoff game, will the FO remember that in the draft or UFA? So far, answer - NOPE:ph34r:

I agree.  He has impressive burst, but doesn't have the get off.  He lacks the instincts.  I agree that the FO does better than the previous when it comes to WRs and maybe OL (I think it's just coaching on the OL).  But on D they're sorely lacking, especially LB.  It has been the achilles heal to me.  That Jarvis Jones blunder was epic.  I would've been shocked if I was wrong about him, and unfortunately I was definitely not wrong on him (like almost every fan it seems).  

Keep in mind here, these mocks are what I would do.  Not what I think the FO is smart enough to do.  I know they're not smart enough to do it.  They've proven that, unless last year with Watt was a turning point.  

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3 hours ago, warfelg said:

And that's where this idea takes, I'm sorry but this is the only way to put it, a turn for stupid.

Cutting Dupree does nothing to save money.  We don't have Moats anymore, so your main backup with be Chickilo who is worse than Dupree.  You would go into the season with only 4 OLB's on the roster, meaning to have the typical depth you would be spending another pick or UDFA to bring in another guy.  If Carter ends up busting, then you lost a guy that could give you even average play for nothing, just because.

Cutting Dupree just because you drafted someone could be the single dumbest thing this franchise could do.

Also, Carter is stupid overrated now.

I wouldn't cut Dupree.  I'd trade him.  I certainly wouldn't pay big money for him next year.  So might as well trade him now instead of let him walk and HOPE for a 3rd comp in '20.  Moats is still available.  

Lorenzo Carter has always caught my eye.  I think he'll get drafted fairly high.  Too many people will look at his frame and athleticism and salivate the same way the Steelers obviously did over Dupree.  I see he was in the 40s on one draft site last night.  It wasn't long ago he was a 3rd rounder.  I would've double dipped with him and Hubbard if he was actually going to be around that late.  

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cutting dupree makes no sense when we don't have other players to replace him. The problem is we don't have other players and haven't made any effort either.  I thought in UFA we would have made a move, but here we are

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5 minutes ago, Magnus-Viktor said:

I wouldn't cut Dupree.  I'd trade him.  I certainly wouldn't pay big money for him next year.  So might as well trade him now instead of let him walk and HOPE for a 3rd comp in '20.  Moats is still available.  

No one is giving up anything of value and Moats is a downgrade from Dupree.  Dupree will be on this team for the 2018 season.  Anything else is silly.  It is.  No one is going to trade for a guy that hasn't had his 5th year option picked up.  And he isn't going to get a big enough contract elsewhere for a 3rd round comp.  Maybe a 5th at best, likely a 6th or 7th.

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16 minutes ago, warfelg said:

No one is giving up anything of value and Moats is a downgrade from Dupree.  Dupree will be on this team for the 2018 season.  Anything else is silly.  It is.  No one is going to trade for a guy that hasn't had his 5th year option picked up.  And he isn't going to get a big enough contract elsewhere for a 3rd round comp.  Maybe a 5th at best, likely a 6th or 7th.

I know Moats is a downgrade.  I wasn't advocating for him.  I simply stated the facts that he is gone, but he could be brought back for depth.  

If he blew up with his next team and won awards a 3 would be possible.  It isn't salary-only.  It's a formula that includes playing time and awards, combined with salary.

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11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

So he's so bad we need to get him off the team via cut or trade, but he's good enough to warrant a comp 3rd pick?  Yea...ok.

Come on man.  I said I would NOT cut him.  But if I got a good return for him after drafting Hubbard, you're damn right I'd trade his a$$!  The 3rd comp is not likely, but it is possible. Guys get overpaid all the time.  I'm saying in the unlikely event he explodes in a new scheme or the light comes on for whatever reason (he does have great athleticism, he just has no instincts and marginal skillset), if he was an all pro or pro bowler and played the whole season, etc, you could get a higher comp pick than you think.  

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16 hours ago, Chieferific said:

I believe that to be the harsh reality. I think Carter can be that guy but that leaves some unanswered questions. Are you gonna take him in the 1st? Who does that leave for ILB in the 2nd or later? Are you gonna gamble and hope he makes it to the 2nd?  I wait until the draft to decide on extending him. I have that much faith in Carter. If you are able to land him, cut Dupree. 

As much as I have a problem with Dupree's game, I don't see a scenario where you cut him.  He's still cheap for this year and probably the 3rd best OLB on the team after you draft his replacement.  

But unfortunately the FO is still clinging to a hope that the light will go on for him and save their skin from another 1st round miss.

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2 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

But unfortunately the FO is still clinging to a hope that the light will go on for him and save their skin from another 1st round miss.

exactly. This is the problem with our FO. I understand having patience, but they have so much that it appears they want to save their skin.  OLB could be seen by some as what is holding back the team. It's not the OL, RB, WR, QB, DE/DT thats for sure. CB, not bad and PK is solid. I would say the main weaknesses are OLB, S and then ILB.  A great ILB could help but  can't watch dupree anymore,  not the calibre of OLB we are used to . 

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6 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

exactly. This is the problem with our FO. I understand having patience, but they have so much that it appears they want to save their skin.  OLB could be seen by some as what is holding back the team. It's not the OL, RB, WR, QB, DE/DT thats for sure. CB, not bad and PK is solid. I would say the main weaknesses are OLB, S and then ILB.  A great ILB could help but  can't watch dupree anymore,  not the calibre of OLB we are used to . 

I believe they've had ZERO visits with OLBs during the pre-draft process.  SMDH

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