Is Bradley Chubb a blue chip elite prospect?

[BleedTheClock]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

He's absolutely a better prospect than Chris Long or Ezekiel Ansah.

Disagree. I would take both of those guys over him without the benefit of hindsight. Chris Long was an incredible draft prospect. He was a superstar at Virginia playing in a 3-4 defense. Ansah is a little closer of a call, but I'm taking the upside that Zeke had as a pass rusher over Chubb's hustle. 

[Ozzy]

8 hours ago, CWood21 said:

He's absolutely a better prospect than Chris Long or Ezekiel Ansah.

Maybe, but when Chris Long was coming out I had him ranked very high as a DE prospect with his family history and how productive he was that last season.  He had a great final year of college and was a big part of the success on a team that usually does not have all that much success.  He had less talent around him on defense yet arguably did just as much as Chubb did this past year with a ton of talent around him especially at DL, they could have four total DLs drafted from NC State and maybe a fifth next year with Roseboro.  Sure Long has not become that great of player in the NFL though, at least not quite what was expected so easy to say Chubb is better based on that.   But look at that 2008 Draft, there was some very highly rated guys coming out that year, yet Long was no question as that high of a pick at #2.  Chubb could potentially fall in this draft to what 6 or 7 easily.   

 

As for Ansah, he was wildly impressive and had arguably more upside coming out of college with his lack of player experience yet tons of athletic skills at his size.  Very impressive athlete and was so raw yet ridiculously talented I thought.  No way I would have taken Dion Jordan over him.  

[VanS]

20 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Where did you get that info from?  Sub-par athleticism? Bosa's 3 cone and Broad Jump was on par with Von Miller and he is 3 inches taller and 25lbs heavier, pfffft...... In laymen's terms, a big guy moving like a little one, not to mention his bend, This is hilarious

You must not have watched the combine coverage on ESPN then.  After running that 4.8 40 yard dash there was a cascade of people saying he was not athletic enough to warrant a top 5-10 selection.  The most prominent being Bill Polian.  The only guy who defended Bosa still being a top pick was Todd McShay who said despite the slow 40 his tape warranted a top 5 selection.

Also remember when San Diego took him 3rd overall it was a surprise.  After the combine his stock took a dip so people were surprised when he was the first non-QB taken.

[MSURacerDT55]

2 hours ago, VanS said:

You must not have watched the combine coverage on ESPN then.  After running that 4.8 40 yard dash there was a cascade of people saying he was not athletic enough to warrant a top 5-10 selection.  The most prominent being Bill Polian.  The only guy who defended Bosa still being a top pick was Todd McShay who said despite the slow 40 his tape warranted a top 5 selection.

Also remember when San Diego took him 3rd overall it was a surprise.  After the combine his stock took a dip so people were surprised when he was the first non-QB taken.

No, I watched every snap of Bosa and know what I see with my own two eyes, plus you all were fools for suggesting he wasn't athletic when film clearly told you otherwise and why is that you only reference 40 time when that doesn't determine success in the NFL?  Show me where a 40 yard dash is actually relevant to what he does on a down to down basis, why aren't you bringing up his 3 cone, and broad jump,shuttle or 10 yard split,or the fact that he ran a 4.77 at his pro day? And conversely there was talk of him being the #1 pick as well up until late in the process. Sorry, I don't rely on Bill Polian to tell me what my own two eyes can see.

[Scout]

Not even close. 

[Jayteedee]

Bosa is an Elite hand fighter with an amazing punch, slap and swim moves.  He also has Elite Strength.  He uses his punch to get to get an offensive lineman on his heels and once he gets him off balance has enough speed to get the edge but really excels at bull rushing straight through to the quarterback.  There are a lot of "quick" guys who don't have the strength to get an offensive linemen out of position and have to rely on moves only.    That is why Bosa is and will be a superb player

[VanS]

11 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

No, I watched every snap of Bosa and know what I see with my own two eyes, plus you all were fools for suggesting he wasn't athletic when film clearly told you otherwise and why is that you only reference 40 time when that doesn't determine success in the NFL?  Show me where a 40 yard dash is actually relevant to what he does on a down to down basis, why aren't you bringing up his 3 cone, and broad jump,shuttle or 10 yard split,or the fact that he ran a 4.77 at his pro day? And conversely there was talk of him being the #1 pick as well up until late in the process. Sorry, I don't rely on Bill Polian to tell me what my own two eyes can see.

No there wasn't.  Laremy Tunsil was the projected #1 pick until the Rams and Eagles traded up.  Then everyone knew it would be QBs going #1 and #2.  No one knew who the Chargers would pick with most mock drafts starting out with Tunsil or Ramsey then as draft day approached the pick changed to Ronnie Stanley.  Joey Bosa going 3rd was a surprise.  I actually paid very close attention to that draft.  Almost no one had Bosa projected to the Chargers.

I think you're confusing how a guy plays versus how they test.  For example, no one would call Antonio Brown a freak athlete.  His numbers at the combine were mediocre at best and sub-par in most cases.  And yet he's the best WR in the NFL right now and arguable one of the best ever.  Just because Antonio Brown is an elite NFL player doesn't make him an elite athlete.  You can argue that Joey Bosa is a great NFL player despite average athleticism.  But to say he's a freak athlete is just not supported by objective metrics.  Bosa ran 4.86 at the combine at 269 lbs and jumped 32 inches.  Those are not awful numbers.  But they are not FREAKY.  A freak athlete is someone who doesn't come along very often.  Its someone who has testing metrics that are above and beyond the rest.  Mario Williams running 4.6 at 295 lbs and jumping over 40 inches is FREAKY.  Myles Garrett running 4.64 and jumping 41 inches at 272 lbs is FREAKY.

I'm glad you use your eye test and make your own determinations.  However, the testing metrics simply don't support Joey Bosa as a FREAKY athlete.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

No there wasn't.  Laremy Tunsil was the projected #1 pick until the Rams and Eagles traded up.  Then everyone knew it would be QBs going #1 and #2.  No one knew who the Chargers would pick with most mock drafts starting out with Tunsil or Ramsey then as draft day approached the pick changed to Ronnie Stanley.  Joey Bosa going 3rd was a surprise.  I actually paid very close attention to that draft.  Almost no one had Bosa projected to the Chargers.

I think you're confusing how a guy plays versus how they test.  For example, no one would call Antonio Brown a freak athlete.  His numbers at the combine were mediocre at best and sub-par in most cases.  And yet he's the best WR in the NFL right now and arguable one of the best ever.  Just because Antonio Brown is an elite NFL player doesn't make him an elite athlete.  You can argue that Joey Bosa is a great NFL player despite average athleticism.  But to say he's a freak athlete is just not supported by objective metrics.  Bosa ran 4.86 at the combine at 269 lbs and jumped 32 inches.  Those are not awful numbers.  But they are not FREAKY.  A freak athlete is someone who doesn't come along very often.  Its someone who has testing metrics that are above and beyond the rest.  Mario Williams running 4.6 at 295 lbs and jumping over 40 inches is FREAKY.  Myles Garrett running 4.64 and jumping 41 inches at 272 lbs is FREAKY.

I'm glad you use your eye test and make your own determinations.  However, the testing metrics simply don't support Joey Bosa as a FREAKY athlete.

You said Bosa had sub-par athleticism. @MSURacerDT55 disagreed, now you’re saying Bosa wasn’t a freak athlete (which I agree with). 

Bosa wasn’t a sub-par athlete though. Nor was he questionable as a top pick (in my eyes). The fact that he didn’t run a fast 40 or have a high vertical doesn’t detract from the uncanny quickness, violence, and explosiveness that he showed on film. 

I agree that he doesn’t belong in the same tier as Garrett, Clowney, Williams, or Peppers as far as pure athleticism goes - but that doesn’t make him sub par.

[VanS]

1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

You said Bosa had sub-par athleticism. @MSURacerDT55 disagreed, now you’re saying Bosa wasn’t a freak athlete (which I agree with). 

Bosa wasn’t a sub-par athlete though. Nor was he questionable as a top pick (in my eyes). The fact that he didn’t run a fast 40 or have a high vertical doesn’t detract from the uncanny quickness, violence, and explosiveness that he showed on film. 

I agree that he doesn’t belong in the same tier as Garrett, Clowney, Williams, or Peppers as far as pure athleticism goes - but that doesn’t make him sub par.

I said he had sup-par athleticism IN RESPONSE to this post:

On 4/9/2018 at 3:14 PM, MistaBohmbastic said:

Bosa, Garrett, etc...Those guys are athletic freaks.

I thought he was the same guy who initially got me to post in this thread that was arguing Bosa was a freak athlete.  My bad. 

Nonetheless, I can support my view that Joey Bosa is a "sup-par" athlete.  You can value other aspects on athletic testing when it comes to judging an edge rusher.  I value the 40-yard dash and more importantly the vertical jump over the agility tests.  Why?  Because initial explosion is how I judge athleticism for an edge rusher.  That's simply my opinion.  And I consider a 4.86 40-yard dash and 32 inch vertical for a 269 lbs DE to be "sub-par".

IMO a sub-4.70 40-yard dash and 35+" vertical jump is what I consider to be a good athlete for a 269 lbs edge rusher.

[Soko]

8 minutes ago, VanS said:

Nonetheless, I can support my view that Joey Bosa is a "sup-par" athlete.  You can value other aspects on athletic testing when it comes to judging an edge rusher.  I value the 40-yard dash and more importantly the vertical jump over the agility tests.  Why?  Because initial explosion is how I judge athleticism for an edge rusher.  That's simply my opinion.  And I consider a 4.86 40-yard dash and 32 inch vertical for a 269 lbs DE to be "sub-par".

IMO a sub-4.70 40-yard dash and 35+" vertical jump is what I consider to be a good athlete for a 269 lbs edge rusher.

It’s your prerogative to solely use combine numbers to measure athleticism. For me - and I’m assuming @MSURacerDT55 - it makes sense to look at what the athletes do on the field of play as well as looking at numbers. Call me crazy, but I prefer ability on the field opposed to ability at the combine. 

Do you feel Chandler Jones is a good athlete? He was the same or worse than Bosa in every combine drill other than vertical (32 to 35). Similar 10 yard splits (1.66 vs 1.69). 

Ansah was better in the 40 and vertical, but worse in the 3-cone, broadjump, shuttle, and bench.

Slower than Dion Jordan, but virtually even in broad jump and vertical while being better in the 3-cone and shuttle (at ~20 pounds heavier). 

Slower than Dante Fowler in the 40, virtually even in vertical, than much better in bench, 3-cone, and 20 yard shuttle.

Anyway, like I said, I don’t even care all that much about the combine numbers. But it seems like you’re arbitrarily picking the 40 and the vertical over the 3-come and 20-yard shuttle.

 

[VanS]

4 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

It’s your prerogative to solely use combine numbers to measure athleticism. For me - and I’m assuming @MSURacerDT55 - it makes sense to look at what the athletes do on the field of play as well as looking at numbers. Call me crazy, but I prefer ability on the field opposed to ability at the combine. 

Do you feel Chandler Jones is a good athlete? He was the same or worse than Bosa in every combine drill other than vertical (32 to 35). Similar 10 yard splits (1.66 vs 1.69). 

Ansah was better in the 40 and vertical, but worse in the 3-cone, broadjump, shuttle, and bench.

Slower than Dion Jordan, but virtually even in broad jump and vertical while being better in the 3-cone and shuttle (at ~20 pounds heavier). 

Slower than Dante Fowler in the 40, virtually even in vertical, than much better in bench, 3-cone, and 20 yard shuttle.

Anyway, like I said, I don’t even care all that much about the combine numbers. But it seems like you’re arbitrarily picking the 40 and the vertical over the 3-come and 20-yard shuttle.

 

I value the vertical a lot for edge rushers.  35" being my threshold to consider a guy a good athlete.  So based on the vertical and from what I've seen of Chandler in the NFL, I would say he's a good athlete.  For the record, I was not heavy into scouting players back in 2012 when Chandler came out so I had no opinion of his athleticism before that draft.

With regard to Dante Fowler, his athleticism never impressed me watching him on tape.  Neither did Dion Jordan or Ansah.   I feel pretty good about my evaluation of Fowler and Jordan since neither has lived up to their draft billing thus far.  I will admit I missed on Ansah.  I wasn't scouting heavy back then but I did remember seeing some of his highlights and being unimpressed.  His success in the NFL has surprised me.

[MSURacerDT55]

8 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

It’s your prerogative to solely use combine numbers to measure athleticism. For me - and I’m assuming @MSURacerDT55 - it makes sense to look at what the athletes do on the field of play as well as looking at numbers. Call me crazy, but I prefer ability on the field opposed to ability at the combine.

Yeah,I like numbers too but I only use numbers to verify what I see on film. Whats the use of having great combine numbers if you don't see it being translated on the field?

[Da_Ducktator]

It's comical to me that Joey Bosa, who has emerged as one of the most terrifying edge rushers in just two years (without training camp the first year), is being questioned for his athleticism because of forty time and vertical jump, two things of minimal importance as an EDGE, and while completely ignoring his 89th percentile 20-yard shuttle and 93rd percentile 3-cone drill, the two bigger indicators of EDGE success and athleticism specifically to that position.

Apologies that he is not Myles Garrett or Mario Williams, but Bosa is a damn good athlete for the position.

To get back to the thread and correlate it, I like Chubb, I think he is a top 10 prospect because he is a safe EDGE guy who has gives great effort every snap and it's clear he comes from a heavy football family, but his 3-cone drill was in the 27th percentile and his 20-yard shuttle was in the 47th. Great, not elite prospect. 

[MSURacerDT55]

42 minutes ago, Da_Ducktator said:

It's comical to me that Joey Bosa, who has emerged as one of the most terrifying edge rushers in just two years (without training camp the first year), is being questioned for his athleticism because of forty time and vertical jump, two things of minimal importance as an EDGE, and while completely ignoring his 89th percentile 20-yard shuttle and 93rd percentile 3-cone drill, the two bigger indicators of EDGE success and athleticism specifically to that position.

Apologies that he is not Myles Garrett or Mario Williams, but Bosa is a damn good athlete for the position.

To get back to the thread and correlate it, I like Chubb, I think he is a top 10 prospect because he is a safe EDGE guy who has gives great effort every snap and it's clear he comes from a heavy football family, but his 3-cone drill was in the 27th percentile and his 20-yard shuttle was in the 47th. Great, not elite prospect. 

Bingo

[TheChancellor]

47 minutes ago, Da_Ducktator said:

It's comical to me that Joey Bosa, who has emerged as one of the most terrifying edge rushers in just two years (without training camp the first year), is being questioned for his athleticism because of forty time and vertical jump, two things of minimal importance as an EDGE, and while completely ignoring his 89th percentile 20-yard shuttle and 93rd percentile 3-cone drill, the two bigger indicators of EDGE success and athleticism specifically to that position.

Apologies that he is not Myles Garrett or Mario Williams, but Bosa is a damn good athlete for the position.

To get back to the thread and correlate it, I like Chubb, I think he is a top 10 prospect because he is a safe EDGE guy who has gives great effort every snap and it's clear he comes from a heavy football family, but his 3-cone drill was in the 27th percentile and his 20-yard shuttle was in the 47th. Great, not elite prospect. 

Couldn't agree more with your Bosa remarks. That man is an animal and is showing it on the pitch without fail.