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LeeEvans

Richie Incognito Retires

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1 hour ago, BillsGuy82 said:

So you believe a QB can actually progress properly when under constant bombardment ? I don't .. Tim Couch and David Carr come to mind from this post.

 

Thats why the bills got McCarron...You let the qb sit as long as possible this year. 2018 season is going to be a lame season nothing we can do. You go in to 2019 offseason and build the oline up to where your rookie qb can succeed. This building a franchise thing takes years not over night. You start with the one piece that is the most important which is qb, then the next year build the oline and offensive weapons as much as you can. By Week 1 of 2020 the bills should be fully set to go deep in to the playoffs if they drafted the correct qb this year. This organization is looking to be around like the Belichec's Tomlin's etc not fizzle out in 2-3 years because they are focused on filling other holes then the main issue which is qb

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I mean it sucks for this year but Guard was always a need and that isn't changing. 

Luckily, Beane doesn't seem like the type to panic.

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The more I hear about this thing the more it sounds like a pay dispute than an actual retirement. 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, LeeEvans said:

The more I hear about this thing the more it sounds like a pay dispute than an actual retirement. 

It is a money dispute...You dont publicly fire your agent after 10+ years complaining about what they recently did which we all know was a contract restructure. then a week later announce retiring. I get it hes upset and I guess the bills werent willing to work with him so the only thing he could do is retire without coming off like a diva asking to be traded or cut. This will force bills hand to give him more money which I think is one of the few guys on the team deserving of one. I wanted the bills to extend him an extra year cause he has been so good

Edited by soflbillsfan

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So odd. Huhhh well our OLine isnt the best looking right now but at least it's filled with serviceable players. No giant holes on the OLine but we could always use upgrades. 

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Did you guys see Shady said he would give him 300K if he stayed lol. He knows how important he is. This is a huge blow.

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37 minutes ago, marshawn lynch said:

So odd. Huhhh well our OLine isnt the best looking right now but at least it's filled with serviceable players. No giant holes on the OLine but we could always use upgrades. 

Serviceable ? It was horrendous in pass protection and just lost Incognito, Wood and Glenn. 

You switch Tyrod Taylor to AJ McCarron and you add another 12-15 sacks onto last seasons total

Teams will be stacking the box on Shady and McCarron will spend this season on his ***. Trading the 2019 pick imo will be dumb 

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2 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said:

Serviceable ? It was horrendous in pass protection and just lost Incognito, Wood and Glenn. 

You switch Tyrod Taylor to AJ McCarron and you add another 12-15 sacks onto last seasons total

Teams will be stacking the box on Shady and McCarron will spend this season on his ***. Trading the 2019 pick imo will be dumb 

Well Wood and Incognito were much better run blockers than pass blockers... And Tyrod held onto the ball longer that a majority of starting QBs due to his legs that skew the sack total. Sacks will probably go down for the simple fact that Tyrod won't be holding onto the ball and trying to make plays with his legs anymore. I believe he held on to the ball the 2nd longest among QBs.

And besides that... We didn't lose Glenn... He barely played last year.  How could losing a guy who barely play make our OLine worse than last year? It cant.

As for Eric Wood... Groys 2016 season > Woods 2017 season. And it's really not even close. He could become our new Center but with Incognito leaving I think Groy moves to LG and we start Bodine at C

Losing Incognito does hurt but our backups have starting experience... That's what I meant by serviceable... We wouldn't just be throwing a bunch of no name guys out there. All of them have started before. They arent the best but indivdiually they are serviceable

LT: Dion Dawkins

LG: Ryan Groy

C: Russell Bodine

RG: Vlad Ducasse / John Miller

RT: Jordan Mills / Marsha Newhouse

And I think that switching back to the power blocking scheme will really help guys like Miller and Groy. They we're much better in power scheme then the Zone blocking scheme.

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19 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said:

Yea, what I'm basically saying is I'm against to moving up at the expense of..

12,22, 2nd round pick and 2019 1, which will be bare minimum to what Giants and Browns will want.

If we go say 12, 22 to get to 6,7 and down by being creative like you said, I'm totally on board.

 

 

Right now we are only guessing as to what the cost is...again everyone was all over Kirk Cousins saying he was going to make over 100 mil in guarantees and 150 mil in contract....for all we know McShay could be right and the bills only give up 12 22 and 53 for pick 2. Either way if the bills need to give up more then that to get the franchise qb so be it atleast that position will be answered for the next 10+ years. 

 

Outside of Eric Wood when was the last time the bills spent a 1st rd pick on an olineman anyways? Mike Williams in 2002 so I dont know why some people are freaking out like the world is ending.

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If you're in the camp of not trading up for a franchise QB because of a 35 year old guard retiring, something is wrong with your thinking. #SorryNotSorry

Nothing should change in terms of getting the most important position in sports filled. You can find a serviceable guard in the mid-later rounds.

If we we desperate for a left tackle it might be a different conversation.

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On 4/10/2018 at 1:56 PM, BillsGuy82 said:

Yea, what I'm basically saying is I'm against to moving up at the expense of..

12,22, 2nd round pick and 2019 1, which will be bare minimum to what Giants and Browns will want.

If we go say 12, 22 to get to 6,7 and down by being creative like you said, I'm totally on board.

 

 

Given what the Jets paid to a team looking to trade down, that's the absolute minimum with the Giants.  I assume it'll take another 2nd round pick to get it done.

Trading up to the 6th or 7th pick is a terrible idea pre-draft.  There's a very good chance all 4 QBs are off the board by then.  The next best QB would be available at 12th easily.  Also, if the Bills don't trade up pre-draft, I hope they don't trade up to the 6th or 7th pick unless at least 2 out of the top 4 QBs are available.  I just don't want history to repeat itself.... Remember, Bills traded up to get Losman (the 4th best QB in the 2004 draft that had Eli Manning, Rivers and Big Ben).

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Posted (edited)

I haven't seen one person state there against trading up. A few of you guys straight over value your players. You guys are so starved for a franchise QB you guys are in the mind set "let's go all in" with the mentality of assuming we're gonna hit on all our mid - late round picks, when in reality that's simply not gonna happen unless the Bills have some magic up there sleeves

The Jets made a smart tactical move imo by over paying and setting a market ridiculously high to move up knowing a divisional rival is in the same position. That doesn't mean the team has to take the bait and pull what I think would be a unwise move.

This team over achieved and was a good story last season. I'm yet to see the addition by subtraction philosophy work in the NFL and I believe we'll be patient, maybe move up a couple spots but not top 4 

Edited by BillsGuy82

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15 minutes ago, BillsGuy82 said:

I haven't seen one person state there against trading up. A few of you guys straight over value your players. You guys are so starved for a franchise QB you guys are in the mind set "let's go all in" with the mentality of assuming we're gonna hit on all our mid - late round picks, when in reality that's simply not gonna happen unless the Bills have some magic up there sleeves

The Jets made a smart tactical move imo by over paying and setting a market ridiculously high to move up knowing a divisional rival is in the same position. That doesn't mean the team has to take the bait and pull what I think would be a unwise move.

This team over achieved and was a good story last season. I'm yet to see the addition by subtraction philosophy work in the NFL and I believe we'll be patient, maybe move up a couple spots but not top 4 

I think all you have to do is point to the Eagles for an example that worked. Maybe that first season it was a set back but they are very well set up going forward. It's addition by subtraction but the addition is a franchise QB. 

There was a breakdown on Path to the Draft last night by percentage of starting QBs the last five seasons based on draft position. 1st round QB was 52% of starters, second round was 11% and so was rounds 3-6. 6th round and undrafted was the second highest with 18%. 

You hit on franchise QBs the higher up in the draft you go, I think that's pretty clear. You can obviously still miss but the odds are much better. 

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2 hours ago, BillsGuy82 said:

I haven't seen one person state there against trading up. A few of you guys straight over value your players. You guys are so starved for a franchise QB you guys are in the mind set "let's go all in" with the mentality of assuming we're gonna hit on all our mid - late round picks, when in reality that's simply not gonna happen unless the Bills have some magic up there sleeves

The Jets made a smart tactical move imo by over paying and setting a market ridiculously high to move up knowing a divisional rival is in the same position. That doesn't mean the team has to take the bait and pull what I think would be a unwise move.

This team over achieved and was a good story last season. I'm yet to see the addition by subtraction philosophy work in the NFL and I believe we'll be patient, maybe move up a couple spots but not top 4 

Im not expecting to hit on mid to late round picks on everyone. Bills need a franchise qb and if it takes multiple first rd picks so be it..At one point a franchise has to go all in on a qb as they are unable to hit on the mid to late rd qbs and pull out a tom brady. Buffalo has a rotating door of GMs and HCs for the last 20-25 years and these guys see that when taking the job. One thing that every GM and HC that was working for the bills have one common issue and that was a franchise qb. Whether the jets overpaid or not the bills still need a qb even with the holes they have. I expect the bills to take a massive step back with or without moving up, atleast they have future promise by moving up and getting a qb. If the bills are happy with either Rosen or Mayfield then they move up to 4 if they want one over the other then they need to move up with Giants. More and more rumors are coming out on giants side whether they are true or not it has some form of context to it. Apparently a trade template is in place with Giants and Bills for the #2 spot and if no other team comes in and wows the giants then they will likely take the move with the bills as they are in the same rebuild boat but need other positions filled and can do so with multiple first round picks. I think it will take pick 12 22 and next years 1st rd pick or 12 22 53 and 56 this year. I would much rather give up the 3 first rd picks and look to add talent with the other 2 second rd picks and 2 third rd picks. Losing out next years 1st would hurt but they will have over 65 million in cap space, have a franchise qb and the guys they landed in the draft. If 3 of those top 5 picks make an impact (includes QB) like they did this year it will help out. You cant sit at 12 and fill in other positions and continue with the retread of back up qbs from other teams and end up with the same record at 6-10 to 9-7 for awhile . I wanted Kirk Cousins but that was clearly not happening as I believe he is truly a franchise qb since the only other option is moving up and getting a franchise qb it has to be done. No way is Allen Jackson and Rudolph are no where near the same level as Darnold Rosen and Mayfield so settling for them is like settling for Jp Losman when you had the chance at getting big ben rivers or eli. It will be a guessing game until the bills are on the clock but the people who want to trade up are tired of watching the same bills play without answering the qb position.

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3 hours ago, LeeEvans said:

I think all you have to do is point to the Eagles for an example that worked. Maybe that first season it was a set back but they are very well set up going forward. It's addition by subtraction but the addition is a franchise QB. 

There was a breakdown on Path to the Draft last night by percentage of starting QBs the last five seasons based on draft position. 1st round QB was 52% of starters, second round was 11% and so was rounds 3-6. 6th round and undrafted was the second highest with 18%. 

You hit on franchise QBs the higher up in the draft you go, I think that's pretty clear. You can obviously still miss but the odds are much better. 

To add on to this.

Beane didn't collect all that capital to just sit back and take whats left. Once they have (and maybe they already have) determined who their guy is, they'll go get him. @BillsGuy82 I don't think anyone is saying the Bills will hit on all of their mid round picks. In fact I have seen the opposite. Most of us agree that this year is a transition year and likely a set back from 9-7. Next season, and more specifically 2020 when the McBean era will be in their 3rd full year, is when I expect the Bills to make a true run in the playoffs, assuming their selection at QB was right. 

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