The Often Overbearing, But Otherwise Ordinary Offensive Line

[vikesfan89]

They must have decent confidence in Samia and Cleveland for them to be the backups on the interior

[PrplChilPill]

On 8/31/2020 at 2:10 PM, Cearbhall said:

Has the guy ever been wrong? Reading back old posts everything he says seems to prove out. Most of the rest of us look to be wrong more often than not. I want to hear more from him and hope he hasn't left shaking his head in frustration at what would likely appear to him as hopeless cases in a futile effort to share his insight.

I'm wrong a lot. I thought Cousins was a good idea (mostly, not great idea).....so that might cancel out my OL thinking completely......

[vikingsrule]

2 hours ago, PrplChilPill said:

I'm wrong a lot. I thought Cousins was a good idea (mostly, not great idea).....so that might cancel out my OL thinking completely......

I thought the signing was a good idea at the time, but only with the caveat that they draft his replacement early and soon enough. If you looked at the deal from a 3 year standpoint, it wasn’t terrible. One decent year, one great year and currently one terribly disappointing year to date, obviously there’s time to turn it around.

Instead of sticking to the original 3 year deal and then handing the reins over to a young QB, they believed he was a franchise level QB and gave him another contract. 

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, vikingsrule said:

I thought the signing was a good idea at the time, but only with the caveat that they draft his replacement early and soon enough. If you looked at the deal from a 3 year standpoint, it wasn’t terrible. One decent year, one great year and currently one terribly disappointing year to date, obviously there’s time to turn it around.

Instead of sticking to the original 3 year deal and then handing the reins over to a young QB, they believed he was a franchise level QB and gave him another contract. 

Still think if they did not sign that extension and he would be gone and Vikings are contract free of him after this season!  That is what they would of had, sure saved a little having to pay him $10 this year under the new extension and was due $29.5 under his  original deal but has more guaranteed money though now.

 

Still would have loved to see him gone after this season.  But even with Cousins the Vikings QB room is really suspect and they have zero hope for the future long term.  Stanley is not an awful QB prospect but bad enough to not beat out Mannion who could be one of the worst backup QBs in the NFL.  Still wish they could have kept Sloter because at least he had upside and some potential athletically, no clue how Sloter cannot be a practice squad guy but Browning can.  Sure Browning has mental aspects of the game to like but physically he is lacking a lot.

 

Back to the OL Cleveland has to start over Samia or at least get a chance and seen if he can swing into guard.  Would love to rotate Udoh in also as either a guard or a RT from time to time, move O'Neill around back over to LT at times and possibly work Cleveland at LT when O'Neill is at RT.  Thought even before the season to sit Udoh, Cleveland and Samia is stupid.  At least one will get a chance now that Elflein is hurt but they have to see who can play and who cannot.    But wow did Samia look awful against Indy.  Buckner threw him around like a doll at times.  

 

 

[CriminalMind]

Re cousins.. i realize wrong thread.

I agreed with the 3 year deal, knowing that I'd like to draft his replacement to be on the roster with him in the 3rd year.  Was completely against signing him to the extension. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by CriminalMind

[dc_vikingfan]

I've come to realize Zimmer words and actions are very hollow. Every team has a weak point. However, the lack of a real competition every year on a team level especially the OL is something that doesn't make any sense. We were saying for months about a potential battle at OG's and yet Dozier and Elfien were handed the jobs. Why didn't they try Odoh, Jones or Reiff( If Erza could holdup at LT). Why not bring in a couple min vets OGs during camp? Every year they make their minds up on starters in the summer and stick with it no matter what.     

 

 

[swede700]

8 hours ago, dc_vikingfan said:

We were saying for months about a potential battle at OG's and yet Dozier and Elfien were handed the jobs. Why didn't they try Odoh, Jones or Reiff( If Erza could holdup at LT). Why not bring in a couple min vets OGs during camp? Every year they make their minds up on starters in the summer and stick with it no matter what.     

I'd like to think that, if COVID hadn't existed and there wasn't a completely virtual offseason, that would have been the case.  However, I don't blame them for at least starting out with the veterans because of that...I suspect that will change here though in short order.

[dc_vikingfan]

10 hours ago, swede700 said:

I'd like to think that, if COVID hadn't existed and there wasn't a completely virtual offseason, that would have been the case.  However, I don't blame them for at least starting out with the veterans because of that...I suspect that will change here though in short order.

I understand COVID was a big reason and can accept that line of thinking, if only it happen this year. However,  every year even pre COVID the OL has been set with no competition. 

Boone cut is probably the only surprise cut/benching coming out of camps on the OL . Zim in general hasn't been proactive in making changes when some not performing ie Anthony Harris over Sendjo or O'Neil. Typically the vet has to struggle for months or get injured for Zim to pull the trigger.

Edited September 25, 2020 by dc_vikingfan

[vikingsrule]

5 hours ago, dc_vikingfan said:

I understand COVID was a big reason and can accept that line of thinking, if only it happen this year. However,  every year even pre COVID the OL has been set with no competition. 

Boone cut is probably the only surprise cut/benching coming out of camps on the OL . Zim in general hasn't been proactive in making changes when some not performing ie Anthony Harris over Sendjo or O'Neil. Typically the vet has to struggle for months or get injured for Zim to pull the trigger.

Agreed. It seems far too often that the August depth chart is the December depth chart, barring injuries. Either the talent level behind the starters is regularly bad or Zimmer is stubborn. 

[Ozzy]

Wonder what would have happened if the Vikings would have kept Nick Easton.

 

Dude still starts on the Saints at OG, brought him in because Max Unger was retiring a few years back.  He is not playing center though, McCoy their draft pick is and is doing a great job.  Hell they even drafted a OG in the 1st round with Cesar Ruiz and do not even have to play him yet.  Sure in time even this season he might take Easton's spot but still would love to be in that type of situation on the OL.  Be absolutely stacked and bring rookies in who are very talented and not even have to play them.  

 

They have had great luck with a lot of their guys not getting hurt along the OL and playing most of the season.  Still they hit on almost everyone they put in there.  

 

Guards the Vikings have had since Easton left to the Saints.

 

Tom Compton
Josh Kline
Mike Remmers
Pat Elflein
Danny Isidora

 

 

Pretty sad when one is thinking back of the glory days at guard with only guys like Nick Easton and Joe Berger.

 

For the love of crap, put Cleveland and Udoh in there to see what they can do.  Vikings actually have depth, starters are not doing great, so put some guys in and change some things around.  Would not mind moving O'Neill to LT, Udoh starting at RT and Cleveland at LG and Dozier at RG.  I mean why not at this point?  

[Cearbhall]

22 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Wonder what would have happened if the Vikings would have kept Nick Easton.

The Vikings would be better with Easton, but they would still have been starting either Elflein or Dozier, which is terrible. If Easton was the worst guy on the line the Vikings might have a decent line. I think that we are going to need to see a change at general manager if we want to see an offensive line that will allow for a consistent offense. Some teams, like the 49ers, will go out and get the best available guy immediately when one of theirs retires. Spielman tries to cobble something together with the scraps that are left over and he isn't very good at evaluating which of the scraps will work out.  I understand why you would want to see Cleveland out there, but based on Spielman's track record there isn't a great chance the Cleveland will be a solid player. Fans are reduced to hoping for development from guys like Isidora, Samia, Yankey, etc...  Some are able to keep their hopes up that these guys will work out. It is so rare though. I'll believe it when I see it.

But sure, if would be nice to see Cleveland get some time in case he is able to show something. Until he does show something, don't bet on him ever being a decent player in the league. The Vikings, under their current leadership, do not have a track record that should give much hope. The results are what they are. The team hasn't had a good offensive line for years. In 2012, I guess, the team had an offensive line that was not bad. 

Samia might have only made the 53 man roster because of the special Covid rules. Without those rules the team may have kept a guy with more versatility on the roster. Under normal rules, it is hard to have more than one backup that can only play one position. Cleveland would have been that guy IMO. Samia might have been put on the practice squad. If that happened, he wouldn't have even been active before the Elflein injury.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Cearbhall

[PrplChilPill]

Cleveland not playing is ridiculous. Second round pick on a terrible oline and he can't play? You can reply with whatever reason you want, but why would anyone trust this staff to be right about oline? They've shown over and over they don't know how to fix this problem. 

[ArcticNorseman]

So, the Vikes had 62 offensive plays today.  Your QB had time enough to air it out deep at times, passes greater than 30 yards downfield and complete 3.  Not great, but at least there was something.  Ya ran the ball 33 times, some great runs in there too.  The way I see it, there were 12-15 plays that were either incompletions or stuffed runs.  Of those 15, how many were killers, 5?  Yes, I'd love to see that number be 0.  Simmons and Clowney did some damage, as expected.  But you add in 226 yards on the ground with two runs over 30 yards and ya have to give the O-line some credit.   Simmons did wreck the OGs, from what I watched, and he's going to be unstoppable sooner, rather than later.

Three penalties for 20 yards is normally great, but for today, look when those occurred?  Missing a FG hasn't even been discussed.  Giving up another 134 yards on the ground?  Oh, and -2 on the TO battle.  

Those are what lost the game. 

The O-line, this O-line, does not have guys we're used to historically (yet) . . . historically great HOF type O-linemen.  Some of you may not remember, but the '90s O-line played nearly every snap together for something like 7 or 8 years in a row.  McDaniel, Dixon, Christy, Zimmerman/Stuessie and Stringer were nothing short of iconic in the chemistry department.  Oh, and those mid-90s teams often went 10-6 or 9-7 or 8-8.  Then the 07-10 line was similarly fashioned.  This team needs that stability and chemistry.  Switching this guy and that every week does nothing great.  

Right now, this team needs healthy guys to play together on the O-Line.  Cleveland may be an answer.  Udoh was a healthy inactive today, right?  So, as much as I really want to see him in there, if they won't suit him up, there's probably a reason.  I liked some of the fight they had out there today, but it wasn't enough.  This offense needs to put up 40 every week to give this team a chance . . . wait, did we just revert to Denny Green's Vikings?

[vikingsrule]

The problem isn’t stability, they’ve shown to have plenty of that sticking to the original OL in camp pretty much every year. The problem is an unwillingness to make in season changes when there’s clearly an issue. 

[Cearbhall]

2 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

The problem isn’t stability, they’ve shown to have plenty of that sticking to the original OL in camp pretty much every year. The problem is an unwillingness to make in season changes when there’s clearly an issue. 

I agree with this. Stability is great but you worry about that after you find five guys that belong in the league as starters. Until then, you churn and you churn looking for those guys. We know with almost 100% certainty that Elflein and Dozier are not guys that belong. Sticking with them now only means delaying the chance to find stability with the right five guys. I will concede that it is likely that the right five guys aren't currently on the roster so the team won't have stability at all five positions until at least next year anyway. Still, maybe they can put in a guy that could possibly give them stability at a third position. Right now, O'Neill and maybe Bradbury are pieces they can build long-term stability around. If Udoh, Cleveland, or anyone else could be a third it would be great.

I do very much doubt we'll see the stability you want until Spielman is gone. That is, unless you want to force the issue and watch a guy like Elflein fail for more years. Spileman, IMO, has already relied on Elflein to start for two years longer than reasonable. We don't need more of the same when it is that quality.