Ozzy Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Torchezim said: I was a strong supporter of Bradbury so I am surprised he has played as bad as he has this season. I am assuming it is indeed him just needing time to get settled in for what type of D linemen the NFL will throw at him but he has been even worst than I could have thought. We will see though. I still have high hopes for the center. I was not a huge fan of that pick honestly, but I did not have these all world expectations of Bradbury so I would say he has been impressive and decent enough as a rookie. Good athlete, does get pushed around at times and will never be a Maurkice Pouncey type All Pro but is better than Elflein that is for sure. Fits the system well and his mobility and intelligence helps a ton. Elflein to guard has not worked out though but sure they will move on form Elflein in a year or two anyway. PS Quenton Nelson is an amazing guard in the NFL, 1st team All Pro as a rookie and will be again as a 2nd year player no doubt. Was amazing against the Chiefs last night and is arguably at this point in time the best guard in the NFL. What a freak show, I would trade a lot to get him but sure that would never happen, Colts have a potential Hall of Famer with him, kid is amazing at the position. Wish the Vikings had a legit talent like that on the OL, but nice to see how well O'Neill has played as a 2nd year player and if they can get another guard and young OT they should be fine. Not sure Bradbury will ever be a Pro bowl level player but he is better than what we have had recently at the position no doubt and that run game is working so sure Bradbury is a big part of that which is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 O'Neill still hasn't given up a sack, right? Philly will be a huge test for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 If Bradbury pans out and lives up to his ability, does this change the narrative on Speilman and the offensive line? O'Neill is a hit Kline looks to be a hit in FA Reiff has lived up to his contract (13th highest paid LT, and middle of the pack performance) Dozier has been pretty decent as a backup. If they have LT/C/RG/RT and developmental depth in place on reasonable or rookie deals, does Speilman deserve credit for putting the right pieces in place for the scheme? I've always argued that they have thrown adequate resources at the position group despite the outcome, but now the pieces seem to be coming together on the field. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 The only thing that is new is coaching and Kubiaks blocking scheme. That’s what deserves the most credit. Spielman is at least able to identify players who fit, maybe a lack of direction along the OL held it back more than anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 So wait, he gets all of the fault for not being able to find offensive lineman, then when they have 2 new players including a rookie this year, and progress from a 2nd year player he doesn't get credit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Part of the blame in the past also has to be the offensive line coaches and the coordinators as Spielman relies on them a lot in explaining to him what traits they are looking for in an offensive lineman. And the coaches/coordinators have changed so frequently, it's difficult to actually be able to fit the pieces in, because what they were looking for one year, changed the next. Now, at least, it seems that they finally picked the coaches that matched the skill-set of the players that are already on the roster...or at least the coaches who know how to modify their scheme to suit the players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: So wait, he gets all of the fault for not being able to find offensive lineman, then when they have 2 new players including a rookie this year, and progress from a 2nd year player he doesn't get credit? Sure he does. but what changed the most from last year? Coaching and the direction up front. Do I believe Spielman suddenly has an eye for OL talent or does he now have better direction on what to draft? A positive is the early investments made rather than relying on poor coaches to develop mid round level talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I don't think it can be understated how much Tony Sparano's death impacted the offensive line last year either. I think my point here is that the early returns on this incarnation of the Vikings offensive line are positive, and that Speilman has identified talented players in the draft and free agency recently. We've just started to see that realized with the style playing to the strengths of the personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: I don't think it can be understated how much Tony Sparano's death impacted the offensive line last year either. I think my point here is that the early returns on this incarnation of the Vikings offensive line are positive, and that Speilman has identified talented players in the draft and free agency recently. We've just started to see that realized with the style playing to the strengths of the personnel. I am not sure what Sparano has to do with the OL improving though or what did he did to help Spielman find talent. The OL issues were still present with Sparano and certainly they didn’t add the right talent while he was the coach. Remmers was a bust. Reiff is below average and overpaid. Was Boone here with Sparano? I’m not sure whom influenced the O’Neill pick, he’s been great regardless but the team has also avoided using first and second round picks on OL, up until the last two drafts. Spielman deserves credit for realizing that he needs to invest in the OL early rather than putting it off. But we need to see what happens with Bradbury before we call this OL a success because as of now, LT and LG are below average, C is worst in the league, RG is average and RT is great. So 1 out of 5 as above average isn’t anything to get excited about, yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: I am not sure what Sparano has to do with the OL improving though or what did he did to help Spielman find talent. The OL issues were still present with Sparano and certainly they didn’t add the right talent while he was the coach. Remmers was a bust. Reiff is below average and overpaid. Was Boone here with Sparano? I’m not sure whom influenced the O’Neill pick, he’s been great regardless but the team has also avoided using first and second round picks on OL, up until the last two drafts. Spielman deserves credit for realizing that he needs to invest in the OL early rather than putting it off. But we need to see what happens with Bradbury before we call this OL a success because as of now, LT and LG are below average, C is worst in the league, RG is average and RT is great. So 1 out of 5 as above average isn’t anything to get excited about, yet. On a historical basis, Reiff might be below average, but in today's NFL, he's exactly what we call average. He's somewhere around the middle of the pack amongst LTs. Edited October 9, 2019 by swede700 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, swede700 said: On a historical basis, Reiff might be below average, but in today's NFL, he's exactly what we'd call average. Maybe last year he was average. Seems he’s on a decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, vikingsrule said: I am not sure what Sparano has to do with the OL improving though or what did he did to help Spielman find talent. The OL issues were still present with Sparano and certainly they didn’t add the right talent while he was the coach. Remmers was a bust. Reiff is below average and overpaid. Was Boone here with Sparano? I’m not sure whom influenced the O’Neill pick, he’s been great regardless but the team has also avoided using first and second round picks on OL, up until the last two drafts. Spielman deserves credit for realizing that he needs to invest in the OL early rather than putting it off. But we need to see what happens with Bradbury before we call this OL a success because as of now, LT and LG are below average, C is worst in the league, RG is average and RT is great. So 1 out of 5 as above average isn’t anything to get excited about, yet. Tony Sparano was the OL coach in 2016 and 2017. The offensive line improved in 2017, and Elflein looked promising in his rookie year. He passed away right before the season last year, and my assertion is that part of the miserable offensive line play was due to his death. Reiff/Easton/Elflein/Berger/Remmers led a top 10 rushing unit, and allowed the 7th fewest sacks in 2017. Perhaps the problem in 2018 was JDF's offense and Sparano's passing, because it seemed like the personnel performed well the previous year. The "doesn't allocate enough resources" argument has been debunked time and again. Go look through drafts and free agency spending if you want, I've done it too many times. I agree that they need to see what happens with Bradbury, which was my point. LT is average, LG bad, C is a rookie, RG has been good, RT is great. Considering the investments elsewhere on the team, that's a decent offensive line in the modern NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I’m not dissatisfied with Bradbury’s play, outside of penalties. He’s definitely shown flashes of why they took him. He’s made some excellent blocks and pickups. He moves very well in space. Strength seems to be an issue, but that will improve. If we just go by PFF grades, everyone is going to panic and overreact. He doesn’t look nearly as bad as Elflein did last year. I’m confident he’s going to be a good one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 Before Steve asks again... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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