Ozzy Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, PrplChilPill said: No way I move O'Neil to LT. No way. He's one of the best RT in the game. Just keep him there. In the game? Based on what? You think he will be a All Pro or something? He has played great, not sure he is the best in the game but is easily the best tackle on the Vikings no question. If he is not moved to LT they will have to draft another OT in the draft potentially because if Reiff is done for they need someone and not sure Hill is that guy. I would rather have O'Neill at LT and Hill at RT if that is how it goes down but doubt Reiff is cut or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ozzy said: In the game? Based on what? You think he will be a All Pro or something? He has played great, not sure he is the best in the game but is easily the best tackle on the Vikings no question. If he is not moved to LT they will have to draft another OT in the draft potentially because if Reiff is done for they need someone and not sure Hill is that guy. I would rather have O'Neill at LT and Hill at RT if that is how it goes down but doubt Reiff is cut or something. Where else where the Vikes find the money if they don’t cut Reiff? Isn’t MN projected to be over the cap despite needing to resign some key secondary players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 14, 2019 Author Share Posted October 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Where else where the Vikes find the money if they don’t cut Reiff? Isn’t MN projected to be over the cap despite needing to resign some key secondary players? If the cap rises to $200M, which would be on par with previous years’ increases, the Vikings are projected to be $1.5M over the cap. It’s not going to take a lot to get under the cap at that amount. Heck, if Griffen’s contract voids, or if he options out, that alone would move the team to $12M under the cap. They could also restructure a number of players as well, like Harrison Smith, Hunter, Reiff, Rhodes, etc. And while no one is taking about it, there’s also the possibility of extending Cousins to knock his cap hit down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Where else where the Vikes find the money if they don’t cut Reiff? Isn’t MN projected to be over the cap despite needing to resign some key secondary players? https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/ You are correct, this list has them dead last next year in cap space. So sadly something is going to have to give, and I doubt they can resign any of the free agents we have. Got Everson Griffen (Club Option) Trae Waynes Anthony Harris Rashod Hill Mackensie Alexander Dan Bailey Eric Wilson Stephen Weatherly Britton Colquitt Jayron Kearse Dakota Dozier Sean Mannion Ameer Abdullah Brett Jones Maybe it is just me but without Harris or Kearse they have what freaking Epps at safety. That would be awful, and no kicker and or punter and or backup QB either. Wilson would be a big loss as well much less Dozier who is arguably just as good as Elflein is. So yeah they have to do something but not sure cutting Reiff will give them the money they need. Obviously they have to win now and do so in a big way. Heck say they do not sign Waynes or Rhodes or Alexander. What the starting corners would be Hughes and Hill? That would be awful obviously not to mention a safety core of Harrison Smith with Epps. Could be bad news, and if Reiff is gone and they do not sign Hill one has O'Neill and what Udoh as the other tackle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, SemperFeist said: This scheme requires athletic offensive linemen with movement skills. Elflein is the exact opposite of that. True. Elflein is the opposite of that. Power man requires players with power. Elflein is also the opposite of that. Everyone knew that Elflein was terrible in the old scheme. Some people held out hope that he would stink less in the new scheme. I think that is why people say he is better in the zone scheme -- just because they already knew how terrible he was and wanted to rationalize how it might be reasonable to go into a season with Elflein as a starter. Truth be told, it was never a reasonable to be counting on Elflein to start. Hope is fine, but an NFL team shouldn't be counting on those prayers being answered. I was mind blown when Rick Spielman didn't do something more to address the offensive line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 36 minutes ago, Ozzy said: In the game? Based on what? You think he will be a All Pro or something? He has played great, not sure he is the best in the game but is easily the best tackle on the Vikings no question. If he is not moved to LT they will have to draft another OT in the draft potentially because if Reiff is done for they need someone and not sure Hill is that guy. I would rather have O'Neill at LT and Hill at RT if that is how it goes down but doubt Reiff is cut or something. ONE OF THE BEST RT is not THE BEST RT........ Why move a guy that is great where he is? If he bombs at LT, or is mediocre, you won't be able to move him back for a year. You'll have weakened two positions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Cearbhall said: True. Elflein is the opposite of that. Power man requires players with power. Elflein is also the opposite of that. Everyone knew that Elflein was terrible in the old scheme. Some people held out hope that he would stink less in the new scheme. I think that is why people say he is better in the zone scheme -- just because they already knew how terrible he was and wanted to rationalize how it might be reasonable to go into a season with Elflein as a starter. Truth be told, it was never a reasonable to be counting on Elflein to start. Hope is fine, but an NFL team shouldn't be counting on those prayers being answered. I was mind blown when Rick Spielman didn't do something more to address the offensive line. I think Dozier has played well, barely missed Kline. I was never a fan of them signing Kline for that much but sure he is better than Elflein. But Elflein as bad as he is at guard, he was much worse at center last year at times so at least he is a better guard possibly than center. Dozier I am happy they have him at least he has played well. 5 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: If the cap rises to $200M, which would be on par with previous years’ increases, the Vikings are projected to be $1.5M over the cap. It’s not going to take a lot to get under the cap at that amount. Heck, if Griffen’s contract voids, or if he options out, that alone would move the team to $12M under the cap. They could also restructure a number of players as well, like Harrison Smith, Hunter, Reiff, Rhodes, etc. And while no one is taking about it, there’s also the possibility of extending Cousins to knock his cap hit down. I am not a math guy, I do not know much about the cap and how to manipulate it. Still the 2020 Vikings free agents are well a lot and based on how little we have in terms of money doubt we sign any of them. If that is the case they will have huge holes to fill in the draft which may not be the best thing. They are not super star players but both kickers and the backup QB is a bid deal. Not to mention depth at LB, DL, CB and the OL. If they lose Kearse and Harris that could be a massive problem, the depth they have at safety is not very good and I have no much faith in Epps or Meadors. Guess they could just cut underachieving players. The top of that list to me would be Waynes, Reiff and sadly Joseph. Doubt he is worth the $10 million they give him but not like they have any other solid DTs to take his place either. But yeah Waynes is gone after this year and Reiff could be if they draft a OT 1st or 2nd round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: In the game? Based on what? You think he will be a All Pro or something? He has played great, not sure he is the best in the game but is easily the best tackle on the Vikings no question. If he is not moved to LT they will have to draft another OT in the draft potentially because if Reiff is done for they need someone and not sure Hill is that guy. I would rather have O'Neill at LT and Hill at RT if that is how it goes down but doubt Reiff is cut or something. I always felt like Hill played better at LT anyways. Could be way off on that but I'd rather keep Hill at LT and groom someone to replace him instead of having Hill at RT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, SemperFeist said: This scheme requires athletic offensive linemen with movement skills. Elflein is the exact opposite of that. That's exactly what he was prior to his multiple injuries...maybe he's never fully recovered, but his rookie year, he was the most athletic lineman that the Vikings had. A line that included Reiff as well. Edited October 15, 2019 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 13 hours ago, Cearbhall said: I was mind blown when Rick Spielman didn't do something more to address the offensive line. uhh... They used their first round pick on a Center, signed multiple free agents, including a starting RG (who has been very good so far), and the blocking scheme has changed. They drafted developmental depth. 3/5 of the starting OL is different. They have drastically improved the running game. Mind blown that he didn't do more? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: uhh... They used their first round pick on a Center, signed multiple free agents, including a starting RG (who has been very good so far), and the blocking scheme has changed. They drafted developmental depth. 3/5 of the starting OL is different. They have drastically improved the running game. Mind blown that he didn't do more? Correct. They still had Pat Elflein in the starting lineup. Completely mind blowing negligence. Edited October 15, 2019 by Cearbhall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Cearbhall said: Correct. They still had Pat Elflein in the starting lineup. Completely mind blowing negligence. When you can't see the forest for the trees.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 14 hours ago, Ozzy said: In the game? Based on what? How about the longest streak of pass blocking snaps without allowing a sack to start a career? That seems like a good place to start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Correct. They still had Pat Elflein in the starting lineup. Completely mind blowing negligence. It's mind-blowing that you believe that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 37 minutes ago, swede700 said: That's exactly what he was prior to his multiple injuries...maybe he's never fully recovered, but his rookie year, he was the most athletic lineman that the Vikings had. A line that included Reiff as well. Elflein has never been an athletic lineman. His testing numbers easily reflect that. Elflein was well touted in the draft because of his technique. But it has become very obvious that his fundamental lack of strength, and below average athleticism can’t be overcome with good technique. If the Vikings had this current offensive system in 2017, I do not believe that they would have drafted Elflein. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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