VikeManDan Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 2 hours ago, JDBrocks said: How about the longest streak of pass blocking snaps without allowing a sack to start a career? That seems like a good place to start. Close. I believe he is 2nd behind Ryan Clady. Your point still stands though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 7 hours ago, JDBrocks said: How about the longest streak of pass blocking snaps without allowing a sack to start a career? That seems like a good place to start. So he will be 1st team All Pro then this year? I seriously doubt that, and sorry I do not read PFF similar to coach Zimmer, I think it is an overrated metric that does not always tell the entire story. I thought O'Neill gave up a sack last year though, might be wrong. Great for him though but will see if that is followed by Pro bowl or All Pro appearances to actually show just how great he is compared to his peers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ozzy said: So he will be 1st team All Pro then this year? I seriously doubt that, and sorry I do not read PFF similar to coach Zimmer, I think it is an overrated metric that does not always tell the entire story. I thought O'Neill gave up a sack last year though, might be wrong. Great for him though but will see if that is followed by Pro bowl or All Pro appearances to actually show just how great he is compared to his peers. Those are all about perception...if his profile across the league improves, those recognitions will happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 17 minutes ago, swede700 said: Those are all about perception...if his profile across the league improves, those recognitions will happen. I had this disagreement with someone before. The Pro bowl is not 100% fan voting. It is 1/3rd fan voting, the rest are from the players and or peers and from coaches across the NFL. So 2/3rds of the vote actually matters and is quite knowledgeable about who is deserving and who is not. So will see if O'Neill can become a Pro bowl type talent because if one is apparently talked about as one of the best RTs in the game by some, then he should be in the Pro bowl should he not? So he needs to beat out Trent Williams which could happen he is not even playing this year apparently. Tryon Smith is a lock, so is Lane Johnson. Not sure O'Neill is better than Ramczyk but will see, Whitworth is good but is getting old and Joe Staley is very good also but has been injured. Duane Brown is solid and has a chance as well, or David Bakhtiari. Overall they do not really consider LT or RT, they are all OTs usually in the Pro bowl, All Pro voting is more RT and LT specifically. So will see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 (edited) First off, @Ozzy, I never said it was 100% fan voting. The reality is it is 100% perception, though, because the players/coaches don't have the time/resources to be able to evaluate other team's players. It's all perception and not necessarily knowledge. All-Pro teams are the only ones that are fairly evaluated. Edited October 15, 2019 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, swede700 said: First off, @Ozzy, I never said it was 100% fan voting. The reality is it is 100% perception, though, because the players/coaches don't have the time/resources to be able to evaluate other team's players. It's all perception and not necessarily knowledge. All-Pro teams are the only ones that are fairly evaluated. So you think the media knows more about players than the actual coaches and players in the NFL? I disagree. Sure the media that does the All Pro teams usually get a lot right but I would say the coaches and players in the NFL know more about who is good and why than the media who just watch. Teams scout constantly obviously and the best players do as well, and each division everyone knows who the best players are especially in the division they play or coach in. Across divisions it might get hard but professionals watch more than you think I feel. Most dudes watch a ton of film around the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 47 minutes ago, Ozzy said: So he will be 1st team All Pro then this year? I seriously doubt that, and sorry I do not read PFF similar to coach Zimmer, I think it is an overrated metric that does not always tell the entire story. I thought O'Neill gave up a sack last year though, might be wrong. Great for him though but will see if that is followed by Pro bowl or All Pro appearances to actually show just how great he is compared to his peers. ONE OF THE BEST does not mean THE BEST. I don't understand what you are arguing......are you suggesting he's not good? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) Elflein has been quite a bit better this year. He's been a decent run blocker and a mediocre but serviceable pass blocker. He's looked bad on a few plays, including the sack in the Eagles game (where it looked like he mistakenly thought Bradbury was helping on his side), but those aside he's not terrible. By this time next year, we might see him as a solid starter. Kline has been good. I'm pretty happy with where they're at at RG assuming Kline stays healthy (flukey concussion on a screen play and a foot injury he's already practicing with a week later don't mean he's a long-term injury write-off just yet) and Samia develops by next year. Dozier is a noticeable drop-off from the starters, but he's been better than backups from recent years like Isidora or Sirles. Bradbury has been the weak link but he's been improving. I think he'll eventually live up to expectations as a good starter, though he won't be better than that until he can anchor better against power rushers. Reiff is just average but he's good enough to win with and he's not overpaid. I get the argument for replacing him, but that's probably not realistic next year unless they're starting a rookie or Udoh becomes a starter. He probably stays through 2020. They can draft another tackle on day 2 and hope to turn him into a starter by 2021. O'Neill isn't going to be an All Pro anytime soon but he might start getting Pro Bowl votes. RT in the NFC is Lane Johnson and Ramczyk above all others, but O'Neill has an argument to be in the next tier with Bulaga and Lael Collins. Hill showed his worth as good depth last week. He's not a starter but he's good enough to fill in over the short term. Edited October 17, 2019 by Krauser 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Krauser said: Elflein has been quite a bit better this year. He's been a decent run blocker and a mediocre but serviceable pass blocker. He's looked bad on a few plays, including the sack in the Eagles game (where it looked like he mistakenly thought Bradbury was helping on his side), but those aside he's not terrible. By this time next year, we might see him as a solid starter. Kline has been good. I'm pretty happy with where they're at at RG assuming Kline stays healthy (flukey concussion on a screen play and a foot injury he's already practicing with a week later don't mean he's a long-term injury write-off just yet) and Samia develops by next year. Dozier is a noticeable drop-off from the starters, but he's been better than backups from recent years like Isidora or Sirles. Bradbury has been the weak link but he's been improving. I think he'll eventually live up to expectations as a good starter, though he won't be better than that until he can anchor better against power rushers. Reiff is just average but he's good enough to win with and he's not overpaid. I get the argument for replacing him, but that's probably not realistic next year unless they're starting a rookie or Udoh becomes a starter. He probably stays through 2020. They can draft another tackle on day 2 and hope to turn him into a starter by 2021. O'Neill isn't going to be an All Pro anytime soon but he might start getting Pro Bowl votes. RT in the NFC is Lane Johnson and Ramczyk above all others, but O'Neill has an argument to be in the next tier with Bulaga and Lael Collins. Hill showed his worth as good depth last week. He's not a starter but he's good enough to fill in over the short term. My concern with Reiff is less about his value as a player but more about his value to the team. There are several key free agents in their mid 20s, it would seem more prudent to keep those players around then a mediocre and declining LT who’s over 30. I think the Vikes may be in a difficult position salary cap wise where moving on from Reiff may be a necessary option. Won’t be easy finding a quick $10M save. I’d make the same argument with Rhodes and Rudolph. All are okay players you can win with but they aren’t getting better or cheaper. Keeping a guy like Mackensie Alexander or Anthony Harris around for the long term does more for the roster. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krauser Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, vikingsrule said: Won’t be easy finding a quick $10M save. I’d make the same argument with Rhodes and Rudolph. Reiff has been playing better than Rhodes and Rudolph, and his position is much harder to replace internally or with a rookie. I’ve been saying since last November that 2019 should be Rhodes’ last year and I didn’t want to extend Rudolph in the first place so they would be my cuts ahead of Reiff. Another option would be getting Linval to take a pay cut. None do the options to replace Reiff in 2020 look great: extend Hill and promote him to starting LT promote Udoh, either to starter at RT with O’Neill moving over or to starter at LT, a position he never played in college or in his rookie preseason draft a rookie and start him at one of the tackle positions on day one sign a FA who will demand a similarly expensive contract to Reiff unless he’s coming off injury or hasn’t established himself as a good starter O’Neill at LT and Udoh at RT with Hill and a day 2 drafted rookie as depth might be the best option there, but they’d be taking a huge risk of tanking their season from lack of quality play at tackle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, vikingsrule said: Won’t be easy finding a quick $10M save. Everson Griffen is on pace to have his contract voided and free up $13 mil on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Harrison Smith seems like a prime candidate to receive an extension to lower his cap hit. Linval is due for a restructure and pay cut. Rhodes is due for a restructure and pay cut, if not a simple outright release. And Griffen’s contract voids regardless of his play. Rudolph could be released, but he’ll count more in dead money than he’ll save, so I wouldn’t expect him to get released until 2021. Lots of options to create quite a bit of cap space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 26 minutes ago, Krauser said: Reiff has been playing better than Rhodes and Rudolph, and his position is much harder to replace internally or with a rookie. I’ve been saying since last November that 2019 should be Rhodes’ last year and I didn’t want to extend Rudolph in the first place so they would be my cuts ahead of Reiff. Another option would be getting Linval to take a pay cut. None do the options to replace Reiff in 2020 look great: extend Hill and promote him to starting LT promote Udoh, either to starter at RT with O’Neill moving over or to starter at LT, a position he never played in college or in his rookie preseason draft a rookie and start him at one of the tackle positions on day one sign a FA who will demand a similarly expensive contract to Reiff unless he’s coming off injury or hasn’t established himself as a good starter O’Neill at LT and Udoh at RT with Hill and a day 2 drafted rookie as depth might be the best option there, but they’d be taking a huge risk of tanking their season from lack of quality play at tackle. If 2019 would be the last year for Rhodes and obviously Waynes who are the starters in 2020 at CB? Hughes and Hill? That is a massive question mark but Rhodes is not playing up to that contract, neither is Rudolph at TE though either honestly. And yeah Linval needs a pay cut big time but doubt they would do that just to stay with the team but who knows. Heck I would trade the Vikings 2020 1st round pick and Riley Reiff for Trent Williams to get some talent in there. Not sure Williams is totally healthy but if he is I think it would be well worth it, but might not be able to pay his contract either unless some other guys were cut. Come draft time though if we have a 1st round pick, Trey Adams I would like and he is a possibility, same with Tristian Wirfs but with his workout numbers he might go top 10 if he does well which he should. Cole Van Lanen might be an option but is not a perfect fit, I would take Alex Leatherwood late 1st or high 2nd, he can play OT or OG. And Liam Eichenberg I love as a OT out of Notre Dame but he is a underclassman as well so not sure he would declare. It is risky picking a OL high and starting him but would have to if they cut ties with Reiff which I really doubt. I disagree that Elflein has been playing good, a few games early in the year he was the obvious problem and gave up multiple sacks. Bradbury to me has way more upside and potential than Elflein but Bradbury does get over powered at times, Elflein just is not quick enough at times. But they would not cut him but not sure they resign him either because of his lack of athletic ability at guard. Dozier I think has done well considering and with his ability to play OT as well worse case helps his cause. Honestly have not seen a huge difference with Kline not in and Dozier in, a little but not as much as one would think. No way Elflein could ever play OT like Dozier could worst case situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Harrison Smith seems like a prime candidate to receive an extension to lower his cap hit. Linval is due for a restructure and pay cut. Rhodes is due for a restructure and pay cut, if not a simple outright release. And Griffen’s contract voids regardless of his play. Rudolph could be released, but he’ll count more in dead money than he’ll save, so I wouldn’t expect him to get released until 2021. Lots of options to create quite a bit of cap space. Yeah the Vikings are in a win right now situation with that cap sadly and a ton of dudes will not be here in 2020 or 2021. But front page ESPN right now has a piece on ESPN+, (could not read it) but talks about Xavier Rhodes being on the trading block. No way they get what the Jags got for Ramsey for Rhodes. Would be lucky to get one 1st rounder if that, most likely it would be a 2nd and 4th or something but not totally sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 45 minutes ago, JDBrocks said: Everson Griffen is on pace to have his contract voided and free up $13 mil on his own. Wouldn’t you rather keep him if possible? He’s playing well and there’s nobody behind who can start and be a 10 sack player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.