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The Often Overbearing, But Otherwise Ordinary Offensive Line


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37 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

If 2019 would be the last year for Rhodes and obviously Waynes who are the starters in 2020 at CB?  Hughes and Hill?  That is a massive question mark

I'd extend Waynes and Alexander and release Rhodes. Waynes should be willing to stay for CB2 money (comparable to Amukamara's deal with the Bears). Alexander could get a deal similar to Justin Coleman or Bryce Callahan. Together, their cap numbers for the next couple of years would roughly equal what they'd save by letting Rhodes go. 

Starters would be Hughes and Waynes outside, Alexander inside, with Hill as the CB4 and Boyd as CB5. 

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Heck I would trade the Vikings 2020 1st round pick and Riley Reiff for Trent Williams to get some talent in there.  Not sure Williams is totally healthy but if he is I think it would be well worth it, but might not be able to pay his contract either unless some other guys were cut.

Williams has had chronic injuries and he's 31. Reiff is playing well enough that they don't need an upgrade that badly. They need the draft pick next year to add talent to the DL/OL or maybe a QBOTF depending on how Cousins does the rest of the year. 

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I disagree that Elflein has been playing good, a few games early in the year he was the obvious problem and gave up multiple sacks.  Bradbury to me has way more upside and potential than Elflein but Bradbury does get over powered at times, Elflein just is not quick enough at times.  But they would not cut him but not sure they resign him either because of his lack of athletic ability at guard.  Dozier I think has done well considering and with his ability to play OT as well worse case helps his cause.  Honestly have not seen a huge difference with Kline not in and Dozier in, a little but not as much as one would think.  No way Elflein could ever play OT like Dozier could worst case situation.

I didn't say Elflein has been good, just that he hasn't been terrible, and much better than last year. The argument here has been that penciling him in as the starter this year was a fireable offense, but he's playing better than that. 

He's given up a few sacks but otherwise he's playing OK. All OL occasionally get beaten. Fans have put a target on Elflein (me included) but he's been good enough to keep his starting job. 

Bradbury does have more potential and I think he will be a much better starter once he develops, but he was definitely worse than Elflein early this year.

Dozier has been noticeably worse than Kline for me. He got eaten alive in the Bears game and he was the weak link in the Packers game too (at LG for Elflein). He is useful depth since he's not a terrible LT backup too. 

Basically the OL this year has been: O'Neill >> Reiff, Kline > Elflein >> Bradbury, Dozier

If Bradbury improves and they can get healthy, they'll be in decent shape. 

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1 minute ago, vikesfan89 said:

Nice to see the progression. He had a baptism by fire the first few weeks.

I assume Elfein is also showing improvement?

I might be misremembering, but I thought it looked like Elflein was on the ground a fair amount against Detroit.

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1 minute ago, JDBrocks said:

I might be misremembering, but I thought it looked like Elflein was on the ground a fair amount against Detroit.

Could have been. The line as a whole has played pretty well and I didn't think he's been as noticeably bad. Maybe they are just masking it better and the rest are picking up the slack

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14 hours ago, vikesfan89 said:

Could have been. The line as a whole has played pretty well and I didn't think he's been as noticeably bad. Maybe they are just masking it better and the rest are picking up the slack

We need to be careful to not confuse the line playing better with the line playing weaker competition. That said, I do believe that Bradbury has legitimately be playing better. He has been playing quite a bit better.

Elflein, I am not so sure about but by this point I am predisposed to notice when he screws up while not noticing when he does things well. He does do some things well occasionally. I would rather have someone that can be a bit more objective weigh in on Elflein. It is hard for me after watching his miserable play for a few years. It would be great if he was playing better but I have my doubts.

Edited by Cearbhall
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According to ESPN stats :

Top 10 OT Pass Block Win Rate

1. Trent Brown, Raiders, 95%
2. David Bakhtiari, Packers, 95%
3. Tytus Howard, Texans, 95%
4. Brian O'Neill, Vikings, 95%
5. Charles Leno Jr., Bears, 94%
6. Dion Dawkins, Bills, 93%
7. Ty Nsekhe, Bills, 93%
8. Ronnie Stanley, Ravens, 93%
9. Orlando Brown Jr., Ravens, 92%
10. Anthony Castonzo, Colts, 92%

 

Top 10 OG Pass Block Win Rate

1. Elgton Jenkins, Packers, 98%
2. Marshal Yanda, Ravens, 97%
3. Joe Thuney, Patriots, 97%
4. Quenton Nelson, Colts, 96%
5. J.R. Sweezy, Cardinals, 95%
6. Joel Bitonio, Browns, 95%
7. Brandon Brooks, Eagles, 95%
8. Ali Marpet, Buccaneers, 94%
9. David DeCastro, Steelers, 94%
10. Josh Kline, Vikings, 94%

 

PS: Keep in mind that there seems to be some difference in ESPN and PFF when it comes to Pass Rush & Pass Block evaluation in general.

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33 minutes ago, upriser7 said:

PS: Keep in mind that there seems to be some difference in ESPN and PFF when it comes to Pass Rush & Pass Block evaluation in general.

I would be curious to learn how ESPN arrives at their conclusions. I am open to alternatives to PFF as their rankings often haven't passed the eyeball test and therefore seem meaningless to me for much other than conversation points. I haven't looked at ESPN rankings so don't know if they align closer to reality. I certainly have no problem with O'Neill having the highest pass block win rating in the league being tied with those other tackles they also have at a 95% win rating. That makes sense based on what I have seen while watching the games.

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So when do we move on from Elflein?  Can we?  Is there a better option out there? Maybe Samia?  At this point I’d be willing to try a rookie before putting #65 on that field again.  
 

I was genuinely getting pissed off watching that circus of yellow flags taint the field during positive plays.   
 

Can his backup really be worst than he has been?

Edited by Torchezim
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Just now, Torchezim said:

So when do we move on from Elflein?  Can we?  Is there a better option out there? Maybe Samia?  At this point I’d be willing to try a rookie before putting #65 on that field again.  
 

i was genuinely getting pissed off watching that circus of yellow flags taint the field during positive plays.  

Dozier would be the likely alternative at this stage since he’s already been a regular in the starting OL. Maybe Samia can fill that void next year, but I’d think Dozier would be the guy now. Dozier moves better than Elflein.

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