The Often Overbearing, But Otherwise Ordinary Offensive Line

[swede700]

4 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

Rick Spielman's error wasn't in drafting Hughes over Hernandez or any other offensive lineman if Hughes is the better player. The mistake was not in addressing the offensive line more effectively in the time before the '18 draft going back to when he first was given GM control. The draft should not be counted on for immediate needs.

The only glaring error early in the draft was taking Mackensie Alexander over Cody Whitehair.  Other than that, I really haven't seen any OL worthy of the pick over the pick they made.  The real issue has been the lack of ability to develop those OL that they did acquire.  Maybe it's the actual scouting, but it might also have been the actual coaching as well.  Who knows?  I certainly don't.  

[Krauser]

Crichton over Gabe Jackson in 2014 was another mistake.

The Vikings have been unusually unlucky in terms of OL injuries — way too many season ending and career altering injuries to prime age players. Hard to build depth in that situation.

Heading into this year they had 6 OL with significant starting experience. But one of two solid vets (Remmers) has missed most of camp where he was learning a new position, and 3 of 3 projected young or early prime players heading into their 2nd years as starters either missed time (Hill), haven’t made it back from surgery months ago (Elflein) or had a season ending and possibly career altering neck problem (Easton). The only 2 left standing are Reiff and Compton, and Compton was projected to be the OL6 backup.

The problem with the Vikings OL as built heading into this year wasn’t depth, it was a lack of high end talent. The injuries have pushed them into using their depth as starters, but any team with that level of attrition would be in trouble on the OL, and the Vikings would be sweating a similar level of injuries in any other position group.

So even though the OL was going to be the weakest spot on the roster anyway this year, the real problem is the injuries. 

[Ozzy]

9 minutes ago, swede700 said:

The only glaring error early in the draft was taking Mackensie Alexander over Cody Whitehair.  Other than that, I really haven't seen any OL worthy of the pick over the pick they made.  The real issue has been the lack of ability to develop those OL that they did acquire.  Maybe it's the actual scouting, but it might also have been the actual coaching as well.  Who knows?  I certainly don't.  

Alexander I like and still think he has potential down the road, might take him a little time though to develop like it took Waynes.  Long term I think Hughes being drafted was because Waynes they might not extend come 2019.  Also that pass defense in the biggest games of the season was a freaking joke.  It was awful and they got taken advantage of and looked bad.  With Hughes he will instantly impact on the return game and give a legit slot corner when they got with five or six defensive backs.  Newman was brought back I feel not to play but to be a coach out there and play only if need be, so really it is Rhodes, Waynes as the starters and Alexander and Hughes as the nickle guys and Sherels in case of injury.  To me that was their biggest need arguably and best match with the value currently there in the draft.  Sure OL would have been ok but  Hernandez at that point in the draft is a little bit of a reach I feel and same with Daniels.  Not to mention they did address the OL with that second pick and a great value getting O'Neill who arguably had more 1st round potential than the likes of Hernandez or Daniels. 

 

The biggest issue I would have if one is looking back at the 2018 draft is with that 4th round pick of Jayln Holmes, a ok player but they could have got Brian Allen C Michigan State, Will Richardson OT NC State, or more importantly Tyrell Crosby OG/RT from Oregon.  Crosby would have been a great fit and great potential OG, better upside than Isidora I feel even, is a mauler and arguably more upside than even Hernandez because he played tackle in college and has that skill set and could be a great guard in the NFL.  Is all water under the bridge though, will see what they do.

 

 

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, gopherwrestler said:

After last year, Nickle CB and maybe even #2 CB could be more important. Obviously the team had some faith in our offensive line. 

 

Again, reminder.... teams don’t win for drafting by need. It’s always the best player available at a position of need. Hernandez didn’t look like a beast tonight. He also isn’t a perfect fit. Now if Ragnow was around at our pick, I would of expected us to take him, maybe even over Hughes. 

 

Drafting lineman just because of needed “depth” just so we had one in case of injury is not the way to go.

I think differently...when the need is so very obvious, a team is foolish not looking to improve and remove the need!  The Vikings had only one serious soft spot...that was the offensive line, especially the interior line.  Elflein is fine at center...and may even become great in the Vikings tradition...but to completely overlook the need for greater talent at both guard positions while drafting a CB, where the Vikings have tremendous starters and depth, has done nothing to strengthen the team overall, and particularly protect an 84 million dollar quarterback.  The fact is, this draft had some gifted interior line prospects.  People kept saying one of those players would drop...the Vikings should stand pat at their position.  Yet, I could have told you that those interior linemen would not be there when the Vikings were on the clock...because EVERY team needs linemen.  I wonder if the front office even tried to move up in the first round to get one of the prized linemen?  Standing on a philosophy of ONLY taking the best player available, without concern for specific need, means that a team misses out more often than not in improving the team.

[swede700]

I believe they did certainly look into trading up, but I also believe that since every other team in the NFL knew it, they were asking for the moon to do so.  Are you going to give away your dog just because you need a new fence to keep out the riff-raff?  Absolutely not.   

[NorthCountryEvo]

I love the BPA philosophy, but BPA doesn't just revolve around the best player left in the draft. It is also weighted by the team's board, which does factor in team needs. I think it would be foolish to assume that CB outweighed OL on our board this year, but the available linemen must not have outweighed the talent available at CB. While I wish we went after more linemen in the draft, I still feel like free agency was the failure here (and i use failure pretty liberally here). Of course a player being a free agent doesn't equate simply to us not signing them, but the talent vs. price vs. player desire to come to the team may have not meshed. That being said, I still in my gut feel that we could have brought in more guys than Compton to hopefully find some more options. Either way, we are at this juncture and I think we can figure out how to make it work.

Now, we are a team with a good young core and relatively few areas of weakness. Because of this, I think we could have accepted more risk, this season more than most, by drafting guys who maybe weren't a perfect fit or who needed more development because we could afford them extra developmental time and time to adjust to the scheme.

This kind of makes me wish we hadn't let Sirles leave as well, or had tried a bit harder to keep him. He wasn't great, but he was good enough to stand in and start if needed.

[RpMc]

There's not much difference between signing the Compton's of the world to letting second/third year guys like Collins, Isidora, Edison, and Andrews have a crack at it... in fact, if you want more Compton's, there are still some available in free agency like Zane Beadles or Orlando Franklin.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

I believe they did certainly look into trading up, but I also believe that since every other team in the NFL knew it, they were asking for the moon to do so.  Are you going to give away your dog just because you need a new fence to keep out the riff-raff?  Absolutely not.   

Depends on the dog I suppose! 

[Guest]

The Vikings will only go as far, this season, as the offensive line goes.  Finding success depends on the quality of offensive line play.  If the offensive line controls the line of scrimmage...sustained drives can occur that eats the clock and helps the defense...if the offensive line controls the line of scrimmage, Thielen, Rudolph, Diggs, Treadwell and Cook will be very productive...if the offensive line controls the line of scrimmage Cousins will have time to go through his reads and find the open receiver.  The one deficiency that everyone agrees on concerning Cousins is that he panics when the pocket collapses and turns into a turnover machine.  If the offensive line controls the line of scrimmage there will be less turnovers on offense.  A football team excels when the offensive line does.  Why lineman are after thoughts in the NFL continues to boggle my mind.

[Klomp]

People get caught up in the bigger, sexier names of the linemen at draft time, but sometimes guys just aren't a good schematic fit. When you've built the rest of your line to fit a zone blocking scheme, it doesn't seem wise to target guys who are better fits in man schemes.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Klomp said:

People get caught up in the bigger, sexier names of the linemen at draft time, but sometimes guys just aren't a good schematic fit. When you've built the rest of your line to fit a zone blocking scheme, it doesn't seem wise to target guys who are better fits in man schemes.

I believe...and I might be wrong about this...but most lineman are smart enough and athletic enough to do either.

[Klomp]

3 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

I believe...and I might be wrong about this...but most lineman are smart enough and athletic enough to do either.

They probably could do it in a pinch, but the value/ranking of the player would vary depending on the scheme. 

Hernandez might've been a 1st round talent in a man scheme, but only a 3rd round talent for a zone scheme.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Klomp said:

They probably could do it in a pinch, but the value/ranking of the player would vary depending on the scheme. 

Hernandez might've been a 1st round talent in a man scheme, but only a 3rd round talent for a zone scheme.

How does anyone know?  He might be better at zone!  I think college players get "trapped" to a certain extent, according to the schemes they played in college.

[Klomp]

5 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

How does anyone know?  He might be better at zone!  I think college players get "trapped" to a certain extent, according to the schemes they played in college.

Coaches and scouts can see movement ability by the drills the players are put through in the predraft process.

[NorthCountryEvo]

I think the saving grace that people forget is that while Cousin's isn't necessarily the best under pressure, he still put up pretty good numbers while playing behind an arguably worse O-line. If some of our younger or lesser known guys either surprise, develop, or play competently, I think we should be all right.