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The Often Overbearing, But Otherwise Outstanding Offensive Line

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6 hours ago, Virginia Viking said:

I think differently...when the need is so very obvious, a team is foolish not looking to improve and remove the need!  The Vikings had only one serious soft spot...that was the offensive line, especially the interior line.  Elflein is fine at center...and may even become great in the Vikings tradition...but to completely overlook the need for greater talent at both guard positions while drafting a CB, where the Vikings have tremendous starters and depth, has done nothing to strengthen the team overall, and particularly protect an 84 million dollar quarterback.  The fact is, this draft had some gifted interior line prospects.  People kept saying one of those players would drop...the Vikings should stand pat at their position.  Yet, I could have told you that those interior linemen would not be there when the Vikings were on the clock...because EVERY team needs linemen.  I wonder if the front office even tried to move up in the first round to get one of the prized linemen?  Standing on a philosophy of ONLY taking the best player available, without concern for specific need, means that a team misses out more often than not in improving the team.

No it’s best player available at a position of need. With Kirk, we won’t be drafting a QB even if he is the best player available. We took a Lineman round 2 because the Vikings obviously thought he was the best player available at a position of need. 

The draft is never a guaranteed player that will thrive, we have seen that. It’s why you don’t skip over drafting a solid player that you have a 1st round grade on and it’s a position of need for a player that you have a second round grade on and you take them round 2 because of a larger need. 

We made the QB rich, but you have to give your team the best players. And being honest finding a CB after round 1 that is dominate is much tougher than finding a Guard that will thrive.

we have to look at the future, there is a good chance we don’t resign Waynes, at the time we had no clue what would happen with Hill. We coulda been going into the future with Rhodes and a Failing Alexander if he doesn’t pan out. 

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11 hours ago, Virginia Viking said:

I believe...and I might be wrong about this...but most lineman are smart enough and athletic enough to do either.

I agree with this to an extent. Most linemen on most teams are asked to do both. Good linemen can do both. When teams are said to run a zone blocking scheme the information being conveyed is that they are predominantly zone blocking. There will be plays when they are man blocking. Good lineman need to be proficient at both.

However, some linemen are better at one than the other. There is a reason that teams look for different physical characteristics when targeting one over the other. For example, size is less important to teams that run a ZBS.

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8 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

For example, size is less important to teams that run a ZBS.

Absolutely but playing in space and athleticism is more important in the ZB scheme, while in a man scheme you have to be dang near an anchor for the pocket to not collapse. For example Pat Elfien, while he may be able to survive in a power man blocking scheme, he can thrive playing in space and getting to the second level. 

 

Going back to the draft Will Hernandez had a mean streak of bullying people, but the limited amount he was asked to play in space you saw where he would wiff. It could be inexperience doing so, because he graded out to be a decent athlete, but even with that said he probably wouldn’t be his best in a ZB scheme.

I believe a big reason we target centers to play guard isn’t all for position flexibility, in a lot of schemes they still have time spent playing in the zone and in space. Usually that center is smart and one of the leaders of their offensive line. I think Rick and Zim have a lot of pride in finding these smart players. Smart players like to learn.

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Ranking players with a sample size of ten preaseason snaps is just pointless

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5 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

Ranking players with a sample size of ten preaseason snaps is just pointless

Apologies, I won't waste your time.

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6 minutes ago, Krauser said:

Apologies, I won't waste your time.

It's worth posting if it is out there, I just find it really funny what PFF decides to analyze sometines

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4 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

It's worth posting if it is out there, I just find it really funny what PFF decides to analyze sometines

PFF grade every player on every snap, just like they always do. 

I took the time to pull that data from the subscription that I pay for and post it here, where I thought it might be of interest and worth discussing. Even at a small sample size, it’s surprising to see the guy the Vikings released (Gonzalez) grading well and the guys everyone wanted to draft (Hernandez and Williams) grading poorly. 

I’m not claiming these early results are predictive of the entire careers of these players, or that this allows us to evaluate the Vikings draft strategy, or anything like that. I just thought it was interesting.

Again, apologies for wasting your time, as the moderator of a football discussion forum, for posting content that might prompt discussion.

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I liked Herdandez’s nastiness, but I’ll admit his overall game just wasn’t an ideal fit for what we seem to be asking from our interior linemen. 

Connor Williams was my top choice, after Ragnow, and I would have taken him over Hughes at 30. But, given the value of CB, I can’t fault Spielman for taking Hughes. 

The Vikings simply got caught in between two runs on offensive linemen. All of the 1st round quality linemen went 8-10 picks before theirs, and the majority of the 2nd round quality linemen went 10-15 picks ahead of their next pick. It happens. 

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Isidora was good last night, playing as a starter, often facing Derek Wolfe. Don’t think he allowed a pressure, maybe one. He was very solid as a run blocker both at the point of attack and on the run to the second level. 

 

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On 8/11/2018 at 11:08 AM, Krauser said:

Apologies, I won't waste your time.

What if some of us would like to see/read it?

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23 minutes ago, Boda said:

What if some of us would like to see/read it?

if Krauser was reprinting material from a paid site, our Webmaster doesn't allow it as he believes in protecting that information for its source.

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