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Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread


turtle28

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12 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Him making the All NBA Team would also mean what you get in return for him would go up as Well. Also the team trading for him would be paying him! I know what I'm talking about here. 

Except he would be on an expiring contract so his value would go down because there's no guarantee he would stay with the team that would trade for him (nor would they necessarily want to give him a super max).

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3 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I'd prefer to make the playoffs with that 5th seed roster rather than give away Beal and Wall for draft picks while not making the playoffs at all. Name 2 propects coming into the league in the next 2 drafts that have Beal or Wall's potential. Like really can you do that?

If not that just shows how stubborn YOU are and how YOUR not looking at the BIG picture. You have no way of replacing the two Faces of the Franchise that have been here the last 9 and 7 years, Yet Sheppard shouldd trade them. This isn't the NFL, once again those picks aren't even guranteed to be top 5 or top 10 picks. Even if the Wizards ended with the worst record in the league that still doesn't gurantee them the #1 pick in the draft. 

 

Sheppard seems content on keeping Beal here and I'm happy about that. 

Sorry that I don’t value being mediocre.  You should expect more from your team.  

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3 hours ago, Woz said:

Except he would be on an expiring contract so his value would go down because there's no guarantee he would stay with the team that would trade for him (nor would they necessarily want to give him a super max).

I already addressed this! Do some research on how Paul George got traded to OKC on a 1 year deal than resigned with them a year later only to be traded from OKC to LAL this summer. The same can be done with Beal.

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37 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Sorry that I don’t value being mediocre.  You should expect more from your team.  

You aren't even a real fan of the Wiz so your just basically a Hater with ideas that would make them even worst than they are now! Just like people were/are willing stand behind the Capitals as they do this samething in Hockey, Wizards fans can do that for Basketball. 

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1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

I already addressed this! Do some research on how Paul George got traded to OKC on a 1 year deal than resigned with them a year later only to be traded from OKC to LAL this summer. The same can be done with Beal.

Let's break this whole scenario down into its component parts.

  1. Paul George was traded from Indiana to Oklahoma City.

    COMMENTARY: What did the Wizards Pacers get? In exchange for giving up their star on an expiring deal, Victor Oladipo and Domantas Sabonis. Oladipo blossomed for Indiana in his first season there, but only played half a season last year. Sabonis is okay.

     
  2. Paul George re-signed with Oklahoma City.

    COMMENTARY:
    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24204011/paul-george-says-oklahoma-city-thunder-were-wise-gamble-him
    Quote

    Despite the fact that George had interest in the Lakers, the Palmdale, California, native recently signed a four-year, $137 million contract to remain with the Thunder without taking a meeting from any other team.

    George said he privately decided to return to the Thunder several weeks before free agency began on July 1. He also acknowledged having an expectation that NBA star LeBron James would sign with the Lakers as a free agent.

    So why didn't George give the Lakers a meeting in free agency?

    "It was absolutely tempting," George said. "Honestly, I wanted to come back home. But again, I got traded to Oklahoma. Loved the situation. Loved where I was at. I decided to stick around a little longer. ...

    So, George re-signed with Oklahoma City because he liked it there. There is nothing to say that he would have stayed there. In fact, it was strongly suspected that George wanted to return to LA and that's why the Pacers got so little in exchange. However, he liked it there so he re-signed with the Thunder.
    Notice how none of that affects the Wizards Pacers.

     
  3. Paul George was traded from Oklahoma City to the LA Clippers

    COMMENTARY: What did the Thunder get? A metric ton: five first round draft picks, rights to swap two others, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and Danilo Gallinari.
    That is great for OKC, but did nothing for the Wizards Pacers.

 

Where is the advantage for the Pacers Wizards as a comp?

If they were to trade him now, his new team would be more willing to give up value because they would have insurance that he wouldn't leave immediately at season's end. Teams wouldn't have to worry about another season where Beal was playing 37+ minutes a night and the toll that took/would take on his body.

But go ahead and give him the new contract. See what happens.

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2 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

You aren't even a real fan of the Wiz so your just basically a Hater with ideas that would make them even worst than they are now! Just like people were/are willing stand behind the Capitals as they do this samething in Hockey, Wizards fans can do that for Basketball. 

They have to get worse before they can get better.  We aren’t ever going to agree on this.  You think a 5 seed is an accomplishment, I don’t.  You’re willing to settle for mediocre, I think that’s unacceptable.  

The difference with the Caps is they always had one of the best players in hockey on their team, the Wizards don’t.

Edited by MKnight82
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31 minutes ago, Woz said:

Let's break this whole scenario down into its component parts.

  1. Paul George was traded from Indiana to Oklahoma City.

    COMMENTARY: What did the Wizards Pacers get? In exchange for giving up their star on an expiring deal, Victor Oladipo and Domantas Sabonis. Oladipo blossomed for Indiana in his first season there, but only played half a season last year. Sabonis is okay.

     
  2. Paul George re-signed with Oklahoma City.

    COMMENTARY:
    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24204011/paul-george-says-oklahoma-city-thunder-were-wise-gamble-him So, George re-signed with Oklahoma City because he liked it there. There is nothing to say that he would have stayed there. In fact, it was strongly suspected that George wanted to return to LA and that's why the Pacers got so little in exchange. However, he liked it there so he re-signed with the Thunder.
    Notice how none of that affects the Wizards Pacers.

     
  3. Paul George was traded from Oklahoma City to the LA Clippers

    COMMENTARY: What did the Thunder get? A metric ton: five first round draft picks, rights to swap two others, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, and Danilo Gallinari.
    That is great for OKC, but did nothing for the Wizards Pacers.

 

Where is the advantage for the Pacers Wizards as a comp?

If they were to trade him now, his new team would be more willing to give up value because they would have insurance that he wouldn't leave immediately at season's end. Teams wouldn't have to worry about another season where Beal was playing 37+ minutes a night and the toll that took/would take on his body.

But go ahead and give him the new contract. See what happens.

Teams are willing at the Moment (Miami) and Will be IMO going forward. If they were to trade Beal next year it would be the exact same situation George was in last season especially if Beal makes a All NBA Team. I don't see how you don't see that. Even with your breakdown.

Tryna to bring up his minutes is IMO a excuse. He's paid to play basketball. You want to get paid like a Superstar you have to put in minutes on the court. 

Beal could get traded right now and still not resign with that team. So now you want to give that team the better Player and a opportunity to trade Beal later say he doesn't want to resign their either? With those extra minutes, Beal has went on to become a NBA All Team Player for another team! Why would you want that? Who are you spending this money on that you don't want to give to Beal? 

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2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

They have to get worse before they can get better.  We aren’t ever going to agree on this.  You think a 5 seed is an accomplishment, I don’t.  You’re willing to settle for mediocre, I think that’s unacceptable.  

The difference with the Caps is they always had one of the best players in hockey on their team, the Wizards don’t.

Beals value to this team is #1 right now with Walls injury and possibly going forward. I'm holding on to him like the Caps did with core players as long as I can and build around him. Beal is the Wizs Ovechkin right now! Shepard sees this unlike you. 

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1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

Beals value to this team is #1 right now with Walls injury and possibly going forward. I'm holding on to him like the Caps did with core players as long as I can and build around him. Beal is the Wizs Ovechkin right now! Shepard sees this unlike you. 

Beal gets dealt before the deadline this year.  Book it.

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28 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Teams are willing at the Moment (Miami) and Will be IMO going forward. If they were to trade Beal next year it would be the exact same situation George was in last season especially if Beal makes a All NBA Team. I don't see how you don't see that. Even with your breakdown.

Let me re-iterate what I said: what did the Pacers get for George when he was on an expiring contract? Why is that a win? His value went down.

28 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Beal could get traded right now and still not resign with that team.

This is true. However, that team would get two years of Beal's services instead of one. They could also trade him like you are suggesting the Wizards do instead of getting nothing for him.

28 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

With those extra minutes, Beal has went on to become a NBA All Team Player for another team!

Beal becoming an All-NBA player does not help the Wizards.

That moves his contract extension from 3y/$113M ($37M AAV) to 5y/$254M (a smidge over $50M AAV). Between him and Wall, they would comprise 85-90% of the Wizards' cap space. They would not be able to afford anyone else except bargain basement guys and maybe someone on an exemption. Most of the players they just drafted are guaranteed to be gone because the Wizards wouldn't be able to afford the cap holds to keep them.

28 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Why would you want that?

If I were a fan of the team, I would want them to compete for championships. I would want them to be able to see the market and compare it to their roster and determine if they have a pathway to a championship. Kind of like OKC did. They saw that even with Westbrook and George (two superstars, both better than Beal & Wall) that they weren't going to be able to make the Finals any time soon, so they took a king's ransom in picks to build for the future when all of the teams that moved now are in trouble.

The Wizards, even if Wall comes back healthy, have next to zero chance at the Finals. And that "if" is a big if. So why would you tie up your cap on a pipe dream?

20 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Beal is the Wizs Ovechkin right now!

Ovechkin is one of the best players of his generation. Kind of like LeBron.

LeBron has showed that even one of the best players of his generation cannot carry a team to a championship by himself. And Beal is a hell of a long way from being anywhere close to LeBron or Ovechkin.

 

 

The simple version is this: the Wizards are going to be paying for the mistakes of Grunfeld for a couple of years. Is it worth spending massive bucks on a rebuilding team for a couple of players while they dig themselves out of a hole? They're not going to be competitive. Accept that and move to the next era. Waiting until you have to move a player costs you value in return. The Thunder didn't have to trade George or Westbrook, but they saw the writing on the wall and decided that both players were more valuable to them as trade chits (as well as tank their own value to maximize their natural picks). Beal is a good player; he's going to help the Wizards win a few more games than they should this year. That is not a good thing for a team that is almost assuredly in the lottery.

If you think the Wizards as constructed are going to make the playoffs, okay. You're significantly more optimistic than I or any of the Vegas books. Go place a few bets and win some money. Just realize that if you're wrong, you'll not only be out of your cash, but the Wizards will get less in compensation than if they had moved sooner.

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29 minutes ago, Woz said:

Let me re-iterate what I said: what did the Pacers get for George when he was on an expiring contract? Why is that a win? His value went down.

This is true. However, that team would get two years of Beal's services instead of one. They could also trade him like you are suggesting the Wizards do instead of getting nothing for him.

Beal becoming an All-NBA player does not help the Wizards.

That moves his contract extension from 3y/$113M ($37M AAV) to 5y/$254M (a smidge over $50M AAV). Between him and Wall, they would comprise 85-90% of the Wizards' cap space. They would not be able to afford anyone else except bargain basement guys and maybe someone on an exemption. Most of the players they just drafted are guaranteed to be gone because the Wizards wouldn't be able to afford the cap holds to keep them.

If I were a fan of the team, I would want them to compete for championships. I would want them to be able to see the market and compare it to their roster and determine if they have a pathway to a championship. Kind of like OKC did. They saw that even with Westbrook and George (two superstars, both better than Beal & Wall) that they weren't going to be able to make the Finals any time soon, so they took a king's ransom in picks to build for the future when all of the teams that moved now are in trouble.

The Wizards, even if Wall comes back healthy, have next to zero chance at the Finals. And that "if" is a big if. So why would you tie up your cap on a pipe dream?

Ovechkin is one of the best players of his generation. Kind of like LeBron.

LeBron has showed that even one of the best players of his generation cannot carry a team to a championship by himself. And Beal is a hell of a long way from being anywhere close to LeBron or Ovechkin.

 

 

The simple version is this: the Wizards are going to be paying for the mistakes of Grunfeld for a couple of years. Is it worth spending massive bucks on a rebuilding team for a couple of players while they dig themselves out of a hole? They're not going to be competitive. Accept that and move to the next era. Waiting until you have to move a player costs you value in return. The Thunder didn't have to trade George or Westbrook, but they saw the writing on the wall and decided that both players were more valuable to them as trade chits (as well as tank their own value to maximize their natural picks). Beal is a good player; he's going to help the Wizards win a few more games than they should this year. That is not a good thing for a team that is almost assuredly in the lottery.

If you think the Wizards as constructed are going to make the playoffs, okay. You're significantly more optimistic than I or any of the Vegas books. Go place a few bets and win some money. Just realize that if you're wrong, you'll not only be out of your cash, but the Wizards will get less in compensation than if they had moved sooner.

 IMO Indiana got a player of Beals potential for George. Give me Tatum, Mitchell, Booker, or Murray for Beal straight up. Or give me a deal like the one suggested where the Wizards got 3 young prospects in Knox, Barret, and Robinson from New York. 

Can you come up with some offers you'd accept for Beal now? 

 

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44 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

 IMO Indiana got a player of Beals potential for George. Give me Tatum, Mitchell, Booker, or Murray for Beal straight up. Or give me a deal like the one suggested where the Wizards got 3 young prospects in Knox, Barret, and Robinson from New York. 

Can you come up with some offers you'd accept for Beal now? 

 

Timberwolves get Beal.

Wizards get Jarrett Culver, Andrew Wiggins and two future firsts.

 

Nuggets get Beal.

Wizards get Garry Harris, Michael Porter Jr, Bol Bol, two future firsts.

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