turtle28 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said: That's why I think they should trade Beal. More bullets in the chamber to get lucky. Yeah, but this isn't the NFL. If you don't have the top 3 picks in an NBA Draft you're extremely unlikely to get a generational talent, if one is even available which, I don't think there is a generational type talent available in the 2020 draft. If the Wizards trade Beal, it's going to be to a playoff team as I've said for almost this entire thread. So, you’re trading Beal for a pick in the teens or even 20s and a few good player, but I doubt a great player like he is. If I’m the Wizards I’m only trading Beal for another team's star and at least a first-round pick. Giving Beal away makes zero sense to me and trading him away to a team that wants him and where he wants to go - a playoff team - for a mid to late first round pick is basically giving him away. Edited December 22, 2019 by turtle28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, turtle28 said: So, you’re trading Beal for a pick in the teens or even 20s and a few good player, but I doubt a great player like he is. If I’m the Wizards I’m only trading Beal for another team's star and at least a first-round pick. But you can potentially turn one of those picks around in another deal. I'm not sure it would be wise to assume that pick will be used by Washington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 16 hours ago, Woz said: But you can potentially turn one of those picks around in another deal. I'm not sure it would be wise to assume that pick will be used by Washington. A deal for what? If they lose Beal it's almost 100% they won't replace his talent on the court and beyond that he's one of the greatest people off the court and in the community too. I was all for trading Beal to say the Lakers for two very good younger player and a high pick last year but that deal is gone now. Now, the Wizards actually have some young talent through trades they made last offseason and they had a good draft, the team has been totally remade in one offseason. There's no season to trade Beal for less then a blockbuster deal anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woz Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 On 12/23/2019 at 11:43 AM, turtle28 said: A deal for what? If they lose Beal it's almost 100% they won't replace his talent on the court and beyond that he's one of the greatest people off the court and in the community too. I am by no means a NBA guru, but players on other teams do wear out their welcome quite a bit. You can use the pick to get those players. Don't get me wrong, it's great that Beal is active in the community. However, as a GM, you have to prioritize the play on the court over what the player does off it. Sure, you will have to weigh situations where if you get a locker room cancer if it is worth it, but those are special cases (your Carmelo Anthonys or Dwight Howards). On 12/23/2019 at 11:43 AM, turtle28 said: I was all for trading Beal to say the Lakers for two very good younger player and a high pick last year but that deal is gone now. And that sort of deal will never appear again? Having the extra draft pick allows you to take the risk while being able to absorb the loss. On 12/23/2019 at 11:43 AM, turtle28 said: Now, the Wizards actually have some young talent through trades they made last offseason and they had a good draft, the team has been totally remade in one offseason. And are currently 9-21 (2-8 over their last ten games), which is good for the sixth worst record in the NBA. So, while the roster has changed, the results haven't. Yes, trading Beal will make the team worse, but getting him (and Wall) off the books will make the cap situation better. At that point, you can start trading for other teams' expiring contracts to free up their books (and take their picks to do it). Right now, per Spotrac, the Wizards have the 4th highest cap space number assigned to guards at $77.9M. Only Golden State ($107.4M), Houston ($97.2M), and Portland ($87.7M) have more tied up at that position. The pairs for the Warriors and Rockets are amongst the best in the league. Portland's kind of in the same boat as Washington; they had a really good player they paid as a great player and are now stuck (though they are right now in the playoffs as an eight seed, which is arguably worse). By comparison, the Wizards are 26th in terms of money against forwards at $27.4M (Golden State ($23.9M), Indiana ($22.4M), Houston ($16.3M), and Portland ($7.4M) have less) and 15th at center at $23.4M due solely to the ridiculous Mahinmi contract. Look, you think they are heading in the right direction and should keep Beal to be the leader of this team. I think they need to get out of the luxury tax space and go for a full rebuild (which admittedly they partially did last offseason). Keeping Beal and Wall is not going to help them at this juncture, so the plan should be to offload them. Unfortunately, because they gave both gentlemen trade kickers they're stuck now. All the Wizards can do now is ride out the deals into 2023. Unfortunately, that also means any growth and development of the young guys they have uncovered will be lost somewhat because they too will be coming out of their rookie contracts at the same time. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/washington-wizards/yearly/cap/ 2020 Free Agents Point Guard Isaiah Thomas Gary Payton II Small Forward C.J. Miles David Bertans Power Forward Johnathan Williams (RFA) Center Ian Mahinmi 2021 Free Agents Point Guard Isaac Bonga (RFA) Ishmael Smith Small Forward Troy Brown Jr. (club option #2) Power Forward Rui Hachimura (club option #1) Moritz Wagner (club option #2) 2022 Free Agents Point Guard Justin Robinson (RFA) Small Forward Troy Brown Jr. (RFA) Admiral Schofield (RFA) Power Forward Rui Hachimura (club option #2) Moritz Wagner (RFA) Center Thomas Bryant Only Beal, Wall, and Hachimura's RFA year are under contract for 2023. Yes, a lot of the players they have going off the books in this upcoming season were designed to be disposable (plus losing Mahinmi), but their young guns are going to have to be dealt with, while sitting under the $90M that is represented by Wall and Beal. Now, I suppose it's possible for the Wizards to execute all of the RFA tags plus pay Hachimura's 2nd club option, but that means losing Bryant (which, if they're smart, they plan for by drafting a center in this upcoming draft). More likely, they'll have to pick and choose because they do need to fill a full roster. Basically, the team as it is currently designed is going to scatter to the four winds just as the Wizards come out from under Wall and Beal. Anyone they have right now is effectively a place holder before the next generation comes in. Maybe one or two of these guys is on the roster in 2024 (Hachimura and Brown?), but there's not a lot else that can happen because the team tied themselves up by signing two great-but-not-all-world-players to max/super max deals. Is what it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) Edited January 12, 2020 by turtle28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 Beal 0-7 from 3, is that good? He jacks up too many bad shots. I love the guy but quit playing hero ball! Mahinmi and Troy Brown Jr go 2/3 from 3 while Beal goes 0-7, what’s wrong with this picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 14 hours ago, turtle28 said: Beal 0-7 from 3, is that good? He jacks up too many bad shots. I love the guy but quit playing hero ball! Mahinmi and Troy Brown Jr go 2/3 from 3 while Beal goes 0-7, what’s wrong with this picture? That Ian is actually playing respectably finally IN A CONTRACT YEAR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 3 hours ago, MikeT14 said: That Ian is actually playing respectably finally IN A CONTRACT YEAR. Thank god Ernie is gone, if he was still here he’d be working with Ian’s agent on a huge extension right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsin2013 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Beal and Wall are overrated. I know I'm a broken record. Their two biggest deficiencies are they shoot too much and don't get others involved... how are young guys supposed to develop? And they don't play DEFENSE because they're too busy gassing out on offense. Toss in the hero ball too. Man what a disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsin2013 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 BTW... much like the Skins, the Wiz are slowly building up young talent. So that's a big plus. But that Wall contract... Also, enough of what guys do in the community. Wall does a lot in the community... but the strip clubs and in-game gang signs? My favorite team, outside of DC, is easily the Clips... PG, Kawhi, Beverly, Montrez? That team was built with selfless players that can score AND play defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 46 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said: Wall does a lot in the community... but the strip clubs and in-game gang signs? Who cares about that? Man if I had that money too at that age or younger, I'm sure I'd enjoy it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 We should probably crap on Ovi and Nicky for that too. They've been to Camelot a bunch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeT14 said: Who cares about that? Man if I had that money too at that age or younger, I'm sure I'd enjoy it. I did some and now I wish I had that $ back! Haha 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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