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turtle28

Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread

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Ted's loyalty is his biggest flaw. Ovechkin is another example. It took him two-thirds of his career to figure out that defense is other "other" part of the game. Hecht, it took Dale Hunter to get him to understand that... and we all know what happened to Dale. Ovechkin and Wall put the butts in seats. Season tickets before championships. Maybe ANOTHER five-year plan will get it done. If you can't tell, I'm not a big Ted guy.

That said, I see Wall and Beal in their early 30s looking back and saying... 'If we were less concerned about personal stats/scoring/etc., we actually had a really good club and could have went far.'

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22 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said:

Ted's loyalty is his biggest flaw. Ovechkin is another example. It took him two-thirds of his career to figure out that defense is other "other" part of the game. Hecht, it took Dale Hunter to get him to understand that... and we all know what happened to Dale. Ovechkin and Wall put the butts in seats. Season tickets before championships. Maybe ANOTHER five-year plan will get it done. If you can't tell, I'm not a big Ted guy.

That said, I see Wall and Beal in their early 30s looking back and saying... 'If we were less concerned about personal stats/scoring/etc., we actually had a really good club and could have went far.'

Crappy owners is the common denominator in Washington.

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1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

So, we’re 3rd why the is that a bad place to be in the conference? If you’re top 4, you get home court and anything can happen.

Except they aren't 3rd ... that would be the 76ers (behind the Raptors and Celtics). That's also not just this year, but going forward.

Again, Washington is good enough to make the playoffs (in part because the Eastern Conference sucks), but not good enough go that far. They are capped out at a ceiling of 2nd round playoff exit.

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[Comment from Nats thread]

Just now, Woz said:

Yeah, but that's not really his fault. If Harper gets $400M+, I'd argue it would be better to send on his way than financially strapping the team.

Like John Wall?

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4 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

OK first Embiid wasn't drafted 1st overall.  Second, the 76ers as currently constructed won 52 games this year.  

The Wizards haven't won 50 games in a season since 1978.  

Very true, it’s clear the sixers are going to be a top 3 team in the conference at least for as long as their big 3 are on their rookie deals. 

Still, Lebron won’t play forever. I think the wizards have a chance to get to the finals with an upgrade aka center draft pick developing into a starter that they hopefully draft this year.

Trading Wall means they’re throwing in the towel. He’s made the team into more of a contender than anyone else since Unseld and company in the 70s.  If they don’t ever get to the finals with the current big 3, so be it but I think Ted is going to go down trying with them until Wall retires.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Woz said:

Except they aren't 3rd ... that would be the 76ers (behind the Raptors and Celtics). That's also not just this year, but going forward.

Again, Washington is good enough to make the playoffs (in part because the Eastern Conference sucks), but not good enough go that far. They are capped out at a ceiling of 2nd round playoff exit.

I wasn’t talking about being 3rd this year, but possibly sometime in the future. Arguably last year they finished 3rd in the conference after what they did in the playoffs and nearly 2nd if a few things go there way in game 7 at Boston. 

Maybe they never get past the 2nd round. I don’t think we know what will happen in the next 5 years to know their ceiling.

Edited by turtle28

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

Ted's loyalty is his biggest flaw. Ovechkin is another example. It took him two-thirds of his career to figure out that defense is other "other" part of the game. Hecht, it took Dale Hunter to get him to understand that... and we all know what happened to Dale. Ovechkin and Wall put the butts in seats. Season tickets before championships. Maybe ANOTHER five-year plan will get it done. If you can't tell, I'm not a big Ted guy.

That said, I see Wall and Beal in their early 30s looking back and saying... 'If we were less concerned about personal stats/scoring/etc., we actually had a really good club and could have went far.'

Wall isn’t a selfish player. The man does usually lead league in assists, and last time I checked that means you’re sharing the ball with your teammates.

As for Beal, he’s their #1 scoring option. In the past he was too passive and it hurt them a few times in the playoffs. They need him to be a bit selfish and stay aggressive. We don’t need Beal passing up open shots so Wall, Porter or Morrus can have a jumper for example. Beal is tge guy who should take that shot, he just has to knock them down.

 Wall being the playmaker and Beal being their top scoring option is how they win. It’s what each guy does best and what they need to do.

Edited by turtle28

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Just now, turtle28 said:
3 hours ago, Woz said:

Except they aren't 3rd ... that would be the 76ers (behind the Raptors and Celtics). That's also not just this year, but going forward.

Again, Washington is good enough to make the playoffs (in part because the Eastern Conference sucks), but not good enough go that far. They are capped out at a ceiling of 2nd round playoff exit.

I wasn’t talking about being 3rd this year, but possibly sometime in the future. Arguably last year they finished 3rd in the conference after what they did in the playoffs and nearly 2nd if a few things go there way in game 7 at Boston.

I knew what you were talking about. I addressed it.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Woz said:

I knew what you were talking about. I addressed it.

The Raptors? They had a great regular season. I don’t see them staying on top too long in the conference. 

Also, they’re best two players are near or over 30 unlike the Wizards. Lowry is 32, DeRozan will be 29 in August. 

Wall is 6 years younger than Lowry. Beal is 5 years younger than DeRozan.

Edited by turtle28

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21 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Wall isn’t a selfish player. The man does usually lead league in assists, and last time I checked that means you’re sharing the ball with your teammates.

As for Beal, he’s their #1 scoring option. In the past he was too passive and it hurt them a few times in the playoffs. They need him to be a bit selfish and stay aggressive. We don’t need Beal passing up open shots so Wall, Porter or Morrus can have a jumper for example. Beal is tge guy who should take that shot, he just has to knock them down.

 Wall being the playmaker and Beal being their top scoring option is how they win. It’s what each guy does best and what they need to do.

I didn't call Wall selfish. But he does shoot way too much IMO. He's better at distributing, driving the hoop, the occasional wide open three. But he can take possessions off, not value the ball, and play out of control too. His game needs to mature... but I've been saying that for a few years too. His FG% is the worst since his rookie year... his FT% is even worse than his rookie year. I'm not a big fan of the view that just because a guy dishes a lot, it automatically makes him unselfish. Wall has the ball in his hands almost every possession, he's the PG, so he should have a lot of assists. He simply needs to shoot less, take higher percentage shots, and keep his game under control.

Beal needs to score... I agree with that. He needs to get away from being the playmaker though. It's a role he tried out more with Wall out; and he isn't particularly good at it. 1.74 assists/turnovers isn't very good. Wall is at 2.49.  Sato 3.45.

Couple other stats (in order):

Off Efficiency: Porter... Wall... Beal... Sato
Def Efficiency: Porter... Sato... Gortat... Beal... Wall
Net Rating: Porter... Wall.. Sato... Beal

Note that Ourbre is last in off and def efficiency. 

Usage %: Wall, Beal, Morris, Oubre, then Otto. The story on Otto is always the same... one of the best shooters (if not the best) on the team... doesn't get enough shots. He's not as  good at creating shots as Wall and Beal... but they should be setting high screens for him to get more off. Some he gets of of cuts and put backs. If Oubre continues to jack them up against Toronto, he'll either sit a lot ala the Celts series last year OR the Wiz will pay the price. Some of his shots are poorly selected. He rushes his three-point shot too much.

Clutch stats (last 4 minutes)... FG%: Kief, Porter, Gortat, Sato, Wall, Beal. Wall and Beal are dead last in FG% under 4 minutes. Brutal. 34% and 30% respectively. Yet they, far and away, shoot most of the shots. Their 3pt% are in the 20s. Beal shoots 71% from the line under 4 minutes. He's the anti-clutch. This is what you call hero ball... two guys decide to put it on their shoulder... and they're simply not very good at finishing games. As a matter of fact, they're poor at it.

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BTW... what the Wiz need to do is pass the ball and get everyone involved. If two guys decide to put it on their shoulders, the others are disengaged and aren't as apt to do the small things (set screens, help out on defense, etc.) needed to win.

The Raps series will boil down to our ability to guard the perimeter... something our guards and center are not good at... and bench play... the Raps have a deep bench.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said:

I didn't call Wall selfish. But he does shoot way too much IMO. He's better at distributing, driving the hoop, the occasional wide open three. But he can take possessions off, not value the ball, and play out of control too. His game needs to mature... but I've been saying that for a few years too. His FG% is the worst since his rookie year... his FT% is even worse than his rookie year. I'm not a big fan of the view that just because a guy dishes a lot, it automatically makes him unselfish. Wall has the ball in his hands almost every possession, he's the PG, so he should have a lot of assists. He simply needs to shoot less, take higher percentage shots, and keep his game under control.

Beal needs to score... I agree with that. He needs to get away from being the playmaker though. It's a role he tried out more with Wall out; and he isn't particularly good at it. 1.74 assists/turnovers isn't very good. Wall is at 2.49.  Sato 3.45.

Couple other stats (in order):

Off Efficiency: Porter... Wall... Beal... Sato
Def Efficiency: Porter... Sato... Gortat... Beal... Wall
Net Rating: Porter... Wall.. Sato... Beal

Note that Ourbre is last in off and def efficiency. 

Usage %: Wall, Beal, Morris, Oubre, then Otto. The story on Otto is always the same... one of the best shooters (if not the best) on the team... doesn't get enough shots. He's not as  good at creating shots as Wall and Beal... but they should be setting high screens for him to get more off. Some he gets of of cuts and put backs. If Oubre continues to jack them up against Toronto, he'll either sit a lot ala the Celts series last year OR the Wiz will pay the price. Some of his shots are poorly selected. He rushes his three-point shot too much.

Clutch stats (last 4 minutes)... FG%: Kief, Porter, Gortat, Sato, Wall, Beal. Wall and Beal are dead last in FG% under 4 minutes. Brutal. 34% and 30% respectively. Yet they, far and away, shoot most of the shots. Their 3pt% are in the 20s. Beal shoots 71% from the line under 4 minutes. He's the anti-clutch. This is what you call hero ball... two guys decide to put it on their shoulder... and they're simply not very good at finishing games. As a matter of fact, they're poor at it.

I agree with you about Otto, he does need more shots.

Are these stats just from this year? Or career stats?  You already said Beal tried to do too much at times with Wall out which hurt his efficiency and his clutch stats. Wall has basically battled his knee injury all year, some games he could barely move like vs okc. It’s hard to blame a hobbled Wall this season for poor efficiency and poor clutch stats. I’m more interested in what Walls advanced stats are since he returned from his knee surgery because that’s the true Wall.

Edited by turtle28

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3 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said:

BTW... what the Wiz need to do is pass the ball and get everyone involved. If two guys decide to put it on their shoulders, the others are disengaged and aren't as apt to do the small things (set screens, help out on defense, etc.) needed to win.

The Raps series will boil down to our ability to guard the perimeter... something our guards and center are not good at... and bench play... the Raps have a deep bench.

100% agree with this. Raptors have the best bench in the league, like the Celtics last year because they only have 2 max players. Sato, Oubre, Scott and Mahinmi can’t go in the game and get run out of the gym or blow 10 to 20 point leads like last years  bench did in the 3 playoff losses vs the Celtics.

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12 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I agree with you about Otto, he does need more shots.

Are these stats just from this year? Or career stats?  You already said Beal tried to do too much at times with Wall out which hurt his efficiency and his clutch stats. Wall has basically battled his knee injury all year, some games he could barely move like vs okc. It’s hard to blame a hobbled Wall this season for poor efficiency and poor clutch stats. I’m more interested in what Walls advanced stats are since he returned from his knee surgery because that’s the true Wall.

Yup... from this year. Yeah, I'm trying to be fair to Wall. There was the ESPN stat earlier this year about him walking/jogging more than anyone in the NBA. I attribute that to the knee. I hope so anyways. Moving forward (after this year), the # of knee injuries concerns me.

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