Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread

[MKnight82]

1 minute ago, Skins212689 said:

So in a way aren't teams forced to overpay some guys? 

I don't think the salary floor forces people to overpay, its the fact that if anyone with talent hits FA they'll get paid by someone else. 

[Woz]

29 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

So why comment? Just to troll Wizards fans like Woz?

Troll? ... well, fair point.

At the same time, the belief that the Wizards are just on the cusp of greatness has been disproven time and again. Perhaps they'll get their house in order with Sheppard or whomever Leonsis deems to be Grunfeld's successor.

I just wouldn't bet on it.

[turtle28]

34 minutes ago, Woz said:

Like I said, if you can pull it off, you do it just to get out from under the millstone of Wall's contract. Even if it means shipping Beal out as well.

 

I'm also confused by the Trailblazers giving Lilliard a super-max.

Basically, the super-max should be reserved for those players that even a casual fan knows about. If the casual fan knows who you are talking about by just one name (Harden, LeBron, Westbrook) or their initials (MJ, KD, CP3), then they are someone who could conceivably worth giving a super-max contract to. Call this small subset of players as "super-max eligible." Giannis might have finally broken into this category (and not a moment too soon, from his bank account's perspective).

Note that being "super-max eligible" does not make someone as deserving of a super-max contract. For instance, consider Carmelo Anthony. He would have met the criteria (Melo). From a skills perspective, he probably would have deserved it. From a locker room perspective, oh hell no.

In any event, Damian Lilliard (like John Wall before him) is not in this category of player. This is not to say he's a bad player; far from it. He's just not worth the 40% of salary cap tied up in his contract.

Westbrook isn’t worth a Supermax either. An argument can easily be made that a healthy John Wall is more valuable to his team than a Russell Westbrook.

Westbrook takes bad shots and sometimes gets stats as a volume scorer and rebounds for his triple doubles bc his teammates let him rebound the ball in the 4th quarter so he can get a triple double.

[Skins212689]

3 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I don't think the salary floor forces people to overpay, its the fact that if anyone with talent hits FA they'll get paid by someone else. 

Ok, kinda like how the Nets could've paid Porter instead of the Wizards correct? Than the Wiz could've spent that money elsewhere. 

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

Troll? ... well, fair point.

At the same time, the belief that the Wizards are just on the cusp of greatness has been disproven time and again. Perhaps they'll get their house in order with Sheppard or whomever Leonsis deems to be Grunfeld's successor.

I just wouldn't bet on it.

I’ve never ever acted like they were on the cusp of greatnesses. I merely have stated that I’d rather have the Wizards of the Ernie era than the Wizards of the 90s and very early 2000s.

I’m no Ernie fan but the Wall/Beal era and Gil era are the 2nd & 3rd best eras in team history. And Also if the Redskins made the playoffs every year and most times won a playoff game, we’d all be elated.

I think that’s a pretty truthful statement.

[Woz]

Just now, turtle28 said:

Westbrook isn’t worth a Supermax either. An argument can easily be made that a healthy John Wall is more valuable to his team than a Russell Westbrook.

Westbrook takes bad shots and sometimes gets stats as a volume scorer and rebounds for his triple doubles bc his teammates let him rebound the ball in the 4th quarter so he can get a triple double.

You missed an important part of my message:

36 minutes ago, Woz said:

Note that being "super-max eligible" does not make someone as deserving of a super-max contract.

If you want to argue that Westbrook shouldn't be given a super-max, that's an interesting debate (one I'll leave for others). If you want to argue that he shouldn't be considered for a super-max, that feels a bit more tenuous to me.

 

Basically, if you're going to spend 40-50M per year on a single player, that player had better be among the top stratosphere of talent. A simple metric for that is "is this a player that a random sports fan would know of?"

[turtle28]

Just now, Skins212689 said:

Ok, kinda like how the Nets could've paid Porter instead of the Wizards correct? Than the Wiz could've spent that money elsewhere. 

Yep, could’ve re-signed BoBuckets!

Also, the Mahinmi & Smith contracts given out that year were awful. Ernie should’ve just saved the cap space!

[Woz]

Just now, turtle28 said:

I’m no Ernie fan but the Wall/Beal era and Gil era are the 2nd & 3rd best eras in team history.

That you think this (and can probably prove it/are right) is so sad.

Just now, turtle28 said:

And Also if the Redskins made the playoffs every year and most times won a playoff game, we’d all be elated.

A five or six seed over a span of four years, that usually ends up as a one-and-done or an exit in the divisional round? No, I would not be all that elated. Yes, it would be better than where they are now, but just making the mediocre middle of the playoffs at best only to fall well short of the end goal is not a good thing.

[turtle28]

Just now, Woz said:

You missed an important part of my message:

If you want to argue that Westbrook shouldn't be given a super-max, that's an interesting debate (one I'll leave for others). If you want to argue that he shouldn't be considered for a super-max, that feels a bit more tenuous to me.

Basically, if you're going to spend 40-50M per year on a single player, that player had better be among the top stratosphere of talent. A simple metric for that is "is this a player that a random sports fan would know of?"

Yes, which a healthy Wall was at the time. Wall was arguably considered the best all-around point guard in the Eastern Conference when he signed the super max.

People forget how great  Wall was during the 2016-17 season and especially the playoffs bc the last two years he’s battled injuries which couldn’t have been predicted at the time he signed the super-max. 

I chalk that up to just the DC Curse!

[Skins212689]

30 minutes ago, Woz said:

Again "casual fan."

Also, again Lilliard is a great player. Just don't think he's what I would consider super-max worthy. Neither is Wall.

Your entiled to that opinion but I disagree. Both are basically FRANCHISE QBs for there teams and play at Franchise levels. Winning multiple playoff games and have made the NBA's All NBA teams. That's how they qualified themsleves for those SuperMax deals I believe. Just like how Beal almost did this past season. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Skins212689

[Woz]

Also

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I’ve never ever acted like they were on the cusp of greatnesses. I merely have stated that I’d rather have the Wizards of the Ernie era than the Wizards of the 90s and very early 2000s.

Being better than utter crap is an improvement, but it doesn't mean it's good.

[MKnight82]

Just now, Woz said:

That you think this (and can probably prove it/are right) is so sad.

A five or six seed over a span of four years, that usually ends up as a one-and-done or an exit in the divisional round? No, I would not be all that elated. Yes, it would be better than where they are now, but just making the mediocre middle of the playoffs at best only to fall well short of the end goal is not a good thing.

Also, half the league makes the playoffs in the NBA.

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Woz said:

That you think this (and can probably prove it/are right) is so sad.

A five or six seed over a span of four years, that usually ends up as a one-and-done or an exit in the divisional round? No, I would not be all that elated. Yes, it would be better than where they are now, but just making the mediocre middle of the playoffs at best only to fall well short of the end goal is not a good thing.

True on both accounts. Elated was too strong a word.

[Skins212689]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

Also

Being better than utter crap is an improvement, but it doesn't mean it's good.

Making the playoffs and winning in the playoffs will keep fans interested and engaged. This shows you actually care about winning. Were the Wiz doing this is the Strickland, Richmond, Webber, Howard days? I know they have with Arenas, Hughes, Jamison and Bulter. Also with Wall and Beal. Just never found a 3rd piece to add with Wall and Beal. 

Wall injury and age is why I'm ok with them trading him and Beal possibly not wanting to stay is why I'm ok with them trading him but I will be sad to see them both go. They better hope they can get somebody new to take over as "That Guy" on the team because they won't have one with those guys gone. 

[Skins212689]

28 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

True on both accounts. Elated was too strong a word.

Guess some don't remember there was a time the Wiz where top 3 or 4 not at the bottom just crawling their way into the playoffs. They just needed a 3rd guy and KD didn't want to come here! Had KD wanted to come home Wall, Beal, and KD would've been a 1 or 2 seed and team to reckon with. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Skins212689