Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread

[Skinsin2013]

I could see Beal's trade value increasing. Right now, he's the only consistent big-time scoring threat on the Wiz. I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 28-30 points a game halfway through the year. By the time the trade deadline comes around, assuming he's healthy, this value could be higher.

[Woz]

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

11 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

I don’t hate Beal, I think he’s a good player. Trading him is the best way for the Wizards to rebuild.  Otherwise they’ll end up like Charlotte having Kemba walk for nothing. 

This is wrong.

It's not, but okay.

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

The best way for the Wizards to rebuild is to build around the All-NBA talent they have (Wall & Beal),

1. Wall made the All-NBA Third Team. Once.
2. He's coming off a series of major injuries, so it's an open question as to if he'll ever be able to make that level of play ever again.
3. Wall is not playing this year, so one of Beal's two remaining years is going to be lost.
    
4. Beal has never made any All-NBA team. That's why he is not eligible for the Super Max.

They're good players, no doubt. But I think you would do well to check your evaluation of them.

 

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

the lottery player they just drafted (who looked great in summer league)

There you go.

 

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

the near lottery pick they drafted in the 2017 draft (who looks to be developing well)

But wait, you said:

19 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Multiple picks in the 20s gets you most likely bench players, or a 5th best starter at best.

I somehow doubt the dropoff from 15-20 is that drastic.

... which means you can actually find good players later in the draft? That's unpossible!

(of course, acquiring more draft picks ignores the possibility of using them to trade up to get a better player)

 

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

and the 2020 lottery pick they will get in next years draft.

But he'll be a bust because he's not Beal! Oh wait ... I get it ... you can be optimistic about future drafts and their evaluations, but others cannot. I see now.

[Woz]

8 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

So if he doesn't sign this extension you still have him under contract for 2 more seasons on his current deal. Also two more seasons for him to improve his trade value. He's under contract right now and I'm not letting him Force me to do a unfair trade. Cool if you don't want to sign the extension find a team who will give the Wizards fair value for you but until than you will play here or at least this 2019-2020 season. Next year we will work on a trade. 

And by doing that you harm his trade value because now he's trying to force his way out and other teams know it so they won't offer as much (plus he's a year older, and given the number of minutes they gave him last year, perhaps with a lot more wear on his body).

[Skins212689]

13 minutes ago, Woz said:

And by doing that you harm his trade value because now he's trying to force his way out and other teams know it so they won't offer as much (plus he's a year older, and given the number of minutes they gave him last year, perhaps with a lot more wear on his body).

Paul George and Kyrie Irving got traded with no guarantee they would resign with OKC or Boston and the same can be done with Beal. Some of you I think just want something to go back and forth about. Argue with y'all wives not me! Now to all those who disagree with my perspective on how I would handle this situation, just simply disagree. It's Above Me Now. 

Another thing show me the Trade offer the Wizards have turned down considering Beal. Also show me we're he has told them he won't resign. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Skins212689

[MKnight82]

9 hours ago, Skins212689 said:

I personally feel Rui is gonna surprise alot of people. Also Brown and Bryant are young guys who can contribute as well. As stated if those 3 guys can give the Wizards 16 ppg while Beal adds 25 ppg that would be a good season no matter if they make the playoffs or not. 

Ok but you’re original question was trying to relate to Charlotte and whether they acquired enough talent to surround Kemba to entice him to stay.  Malik Monk and Miles Bridges were two highly regarded lottery picks Charlotte added to the roster and they didn’t impact Kemba at all.  The reality is that Rui and Brown might develop at some point but it’s unlikely they make a big impact before Beal has to make his decision to stay in the next two years.

Edited July 15, 2019 by MKnight82

[MKnight82]

48 minutes ago, Woz said:

And by doing that you harm his trade value because now he's trying to force his way out and other teams know it so they won't offer as much (plus he's a year older, and given the number of minutes they gave him last year, perhaps with a lot more wear on his body).

I don’t think the Wizards will harm Beals trade value by holding onto him.  They will however hurt their own draft pick by winning more games. 

[MKnight82]

54 minutes ago, Woz said:

It's not, but okay.

1. Wall made the All-NBA Third Team. Once.
2. He's coming off a series of major injuries, so it's an open question as to if he'll ever be able to make that level of play ever again.
3. Wall is not playing this year, so one of Beal's two remaining years is going to be lost.
    
4. Beal has never made any All-NBA team. That's why he is not eligible for the Super Max.

They're good players, no doubt. But I think you would do well to check your evaluation of them.

 

There you go.

 

But wait, you said:

I somehow doubt the dropoff from 15-20 is that drastic.

... which means you can actually find good players later in the draft? That's unpossible!

(of course, acquiring more draft picks ignores the possibility of using them to trade up to get a better player)

 

But he'll be a bust because he's not Beal! Oh wait ... I get it ... you can be optimistic about future drafts and their evaluations, but others cannot. I see now.

Pretty sure Toronto just won a NbA title without a single nba lottery pick on the roster.  I’m going off memory maybe they had one, but the majority of the team were late firsts.

[Skinsin2013]

20 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Pretty sure Toronto just won a NbA title without a single nba lottery pick on the roster.  I’m going off memory maybe they had one, but the majority of the team were late firsts.

You are correct.

And, yes, holding on to Beal FOR TOO LONG would eventually hurt his trade value. With two years remaining on his contact, I wouldn't wait any longer than this year's trade deadline. 

If he doesn't sign an extension offer, the writing is officially on the wall. That offer could come in 11 days. So we'll know soon enough.

Woz is killing it. 

To imply that the Wiz should wait on Wall, and build around Beal and Wall, is Ernie-esque. 

[Woz]

43 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I don’t think the Wizards will harm Beals trade value by holding onto him.  They will however hurt their own draft pick by winning more games. 

Can harm his value in two ways:

1. If I (as the GM of another team) know that you (GM of Wizards) have a player I'm interested in who wants to leave, I'm going to offer less than I would because I think you might be afraid of losing him for nothing (as an example, check what they got for Porter and Oubre).
2. If you don't trade him, he's going to be the focal point of the offense. That means a lot of minutes on his body, which increases his injury risk (and thus destroy any value you could have gotten for him).

 

At this point, however, I think the ship has sailed. Most of the big deals are done and teams are focused on building for this season. Maybe they can flip him at the deadline, but the big deal window has closed. Maybe not in the George/Westbrook stratosphere, but they could have gotten multiple first for him.

I put that on Leonisis. He wanted the big name GM, and put his front office in a bind (they'd like to keep their jobs but they didn't know who was going to be the top dog). Yes, Tommy Sheppard has done a decent job this offseason (*), but they could have really planned for the future and cleaned house had he (or anyone else) been given a free hand.

 

 

(*) One of the people on WJFK (I think it was Nick Ashew?) who pointed out that the fanbase was so depressed by Ernie Grunfeld that getting second round picks in exchange for trades was making their hearts go all fluttery with joy.

[Skins212689]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

Ok but you’re original question was trying to relate to Charlotte and whether they acquired enough talent to surround Kemba to entice him to stay.  Malik Monk and Miles Bridges were two highly regarded lottery picks Charlotte added to the roster and they didn’t impact Kemba at all.  The reality is that Rui and Brown might develop at some point but it’s unlikely they make a big impact before Beal has to make his decision to stay in the next two years.

Dude the Wizards have made the playoffs how many times since Beal has been here compared to Charlotte while Kemba was there?  That also shows Beal has had better talent around him compared to what Kemba had. 

[MKnight82]

48 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Dude the Wizards have made the playoffs how many times since Beal has been here compared to Charlotte while Kemba was there?  That also shows Beal has had better talent around him compared to what Kemba had. 

Charlotte won more games than the Wizards last year.

John Walls contract is going to seriously impact their ability to add talent. 

[turtle28]

I don't think Wall is tradeable and I wouldn't trade Brad Beal. Beal is the future, build around him. It's easy. The assets you’d get back in a trade will not be equal to Beal. Just build around him.

[turtle28]

25 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Charlotte won more games than the Wizards last year.

John Walls contract is going to seriously impact their ability to add talent. 

Hmm... They added talent this offseason despite Wall’s contract. Through the draft and through a few trades. 

Once Mahinmi’s contract comes off the board next offseason they’ll be able to add another good FA or maybe even too good players or one max player.

Then, Wall will be back, and while he may not be what he was before the injury, I still expect him to be a very good player. The key for the Wizards is to continue to develop these young guys they've acquired and to draft and develop the lottery pick that they hopefully have next year.

[Woz]

17 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don't think Wall is tradeable and I wouldn't trade Brad Beal. Beal is the future, build around him. It's easy. The assets you’d get back in a trade will not be equal to Beal. Just build around him.

No. Beal is the present.

That's the problem. He's on a roster that has next to no chance of being competitive in the next two to three years. As has been stated multiple times already, Wall's super max contract (combined with Beal's max deal) will hinder Washington's ability to sign any free agent. There's no way to acquire players to "[j]ust build around him." So, the only way they can get better is through the draft.

Problem is, to do that, they effectively have to lose. A lot.

Beal's talent prevents them from doing that.

[Woz]

1 hour ago, Skins212689 said:

Dude the Wizards have made the playoffs how many times since Beal has been here compared to Charlotte while Kemba was there?

For the record, four for Beal, two for Kemba.