Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread

[turtle28]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:50 AM, Skinsin2013 said:

The Griz worked over the Wiz last night. Their game plan was to shut down Beal and Bertans, even denying them the ball as much as possible.

Russ was awful in the first half... 7-8 turnovers. And, boy, the Russ fan club is brutal... worse than Wall. I dare, any of you, to write something critical of Russ on the Wizards Twitter or FB page. The Russ fan club travels... my word!

Rui is becoming a flash player. Good game followed by a few duds. 

Deni is being wasted. Go stand in the corner... don't look to create.

Not sure why Mo was taken out so early last night. He was mixing it up. He got Valančiūnas into some early foul trouble. 

Go ahead and crush me, for writing this, after a nice win streak -> I'd still blow it up. It's not a team constructed to win a championship. I hate the two, volume guard system. It wasn't any different when Wall was here. Other players get complacent. Other players have a limited opportunity to develop. 

One more -> Beal is not a good 3 pt shooter. As a matter of fact, of the top 30 volume 3 pt shooters, he's second to last... or maybe even last at this point... in 3 pt FG %.

Yeah, we got worked in the first half vs the Griz. Agree about Russ, he didn’t have a good first half at all, as I said on Twitter if he can keep the turnovers down & be somewhat efficient on offense the Wiz usually win but when he plays like he did last night they have little chance to win. The win streak is looking more like a mirage as they faced a lot of teams that was missing at least one of their stars and some teams had several injuries to starters.

I wouldn’t trade Beal still & I don’t think Russ is trade-able. I’m still shocked they were able to trade Wall but of course they were able to do it bc Russ wanted out of Houston. And yeah, I’d still rather have Wall than Russ, Wall has improved his outside shooting quite a bit in his time off but that really doesn’t matter anymore because he’s not coming back.

It doesn’t make much sense to me to trade away Beal - arguably currently the greatest player this franchise has ever had if he continues to play as he is for years to come - for draft picks & a lesser star or young players who may or may not develop into good players in the future. There’s just no reason to trade Beal unless he says to the front office that he wants to be traded and thus far he’s said he wants to stay here and be part of this team when it starts consistently winning again. 
 

I’ve said for several years that Beal needs to improve as a 3-pt shooter and his poor shooting from 3 is not acceptable given how good a stroke he has and how good a shooter she should be.  So, I definitely agree about Beal’s 3-pt shooting, it’s a problem. He really hasn’t been a better than average 3-pt shooter the last 3 years and this year he’s been below average as a 3-pt shooter. 
 

I don’t really know what they can do to help that Deni or Rui don’t get the ball enough. You definitely want the ball is Beal’s hands as much as possible, it’s their best chance to win. I don’t think trading their best player away in his prime is the answer to getting Deni & Rui more chances. I guess you can ask Russ to be more of a facilitator than a score first/combo PG which he’s been his entire career, but I don’t think it’s likely to happen.

I think Deni & Rui - like Otto when he was here - need to be more assertive when they get the ball and take more shots. Otto did get better at that as the years went on & he became more efficient in those touches, my hope is that as Deni & Rui play more the same happens for them. I mean Deni is just 20, there’s a lot of development that he can do in his game.

 

[turtle28]

On 3/3/2021 at 7:52 AM, Skinsin2013 said:

Not sure what happened here.

Anyways, I'll add that Russ is shooting 29% from 3 pt range. 

Wall is shooting better from 3 than Beal & Westbrook just in case you’re wondering... 😂 

[turtle28]

10 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

Can someone name a guard volume heavy team that has lost 13 straight?

Good trade. Culture matters.

The Rockets are missing Christian Wood & Eric Gordon. That’s 40 ppg. 
 

Stop with the culture crap when you’re not in the locker room and you have no clue about it. The problem is they’re missing two of their 3 best player and that’s it.

You put Wall back on the Wizards & I think they’re at worst .500. He’s a more efficient player than Westbrook. Wall is  shooting 5% better from 3 than Westbrook and 15% better from the free throw line. The only place Westbrook has been better than Wall is rebounding but if Westbrook wasn’t here I’m sure our forwards would be rebounding more.

Edited March 5, 2021 by turtle28

[Skinsin2013]

Russ patching up the culture John Wall broke. What a huge rebound. Holding players accountable. Finding out what makes them tick. Making players around him better. Challenging them. 

[e16bball]

15 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

Russ patching up the culture John Wall broke. What a huge rebound. Holding players accountable. Finding out what makes them tick. Making players around him better. Challenging them. 

Not particularly interested in quibbling about what Russ is or isn’t doing, but I do have to take issue with the concept that John Wall “broke the culture.”

John Wall was drafted less than 6 months after the team’s star player was suspended for bringing guns into the team locker room, pulling them out in an argument with a teammate about gambling debts accrued on the team’s flights, and the whole team was present for a legitimate loaded gun standoff in the locker room. And then much of the team did a choreographed joke about playing with guns on the court some days later. 

He came onto a team that had been systematically decimated after some playoff years. Gone were veteran leaders Antawn Jamison and Caron Butler, not to mention other legit pros like Brendan Haywood, Mike Miller, Randy Foye, etc. In their places were guys like Javale McGee, Andray Blatche, and Nick Young. Those jokers were #2, #3, and #4 on the team in starts and minutes. And Gilbert Arenas was still there, though broken-down and fat now, but still acting a fool (including faking injuries). 

So if your position is that the 19-year-old kid did not come in and singlehandedly repair and rebuild the already shattered and destroyed culture here — I suppose I can get on board with that, at least to the point of agreeing that there were aspects of Wall, particularly in the later years, that weren’t conducive to elite culture. But he can’t have “broken” the culture here; there was no culture left to break when he was drafted into the ongoing trainwreck that was the 2010 Wizards organization. 

[turtle28]

John Wall helped develop a winning culture on the basketball court for the Wizards organization. The most sustained winning culture the franchise had since the 70s.

People can dismiss that if they want and talk about off the court rumors which may or may not have been true which never affected John or the team’s performance on the court while he was on the team but that’s just sour grapes to me.

I care about on the court. I don’t get caught up in off the court stuff unless it affects the performance of the team on the court, ice or field. I mean Wall & Ovechkin in a lot of ways were the same in off the court stuff but people ignored it bc the Caps were one of the best teams in the NHL.

I like how Russ seems to be improving his efficiency & his teammates are getting used to playing with him. I think the Wizards are certainly going to have a better second half of the season but I still think Wall is a better all around player than Russ - especially in efficiency - & Wall is also 2 years younger. 
 

I’ll also add that there is no trade interest in Russ for teams that are currently playoff teams looking to improve meanwhile, Wall is being rumored in a trade for multiple teams who are looking to add a 2nd or 3rd star to their team in hopes that he could help them make a run at the finals yet, trade rumors around Russ are crickets. 
 

That says all you need to know about which player is currently playing better and being seen as an asset.

[turtle28]

Report: John Wall seen as potential trade target for Miami Heat | Rockets Wire via @therocketswire

https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/05/report-john-wall-seen-as-potential-trade-target-for-miami-heat/

It’s interesting to me that John Wall has the same trade interest that Brad Beal has and yet some Wizards fans still think that Wall was such a problem for the Wizards while in DC and trading him away has been a positive for them when it’s obvious on the court that Westbrook has been worse than Wall.

 

“According to TrueHoop’s Tom Haberstroh, Houston Rockets guard John Wall is viewed as a “potential target” of the Miami Heat leading up to the NBA’s March 25 trade deadline for the 2020-21 season.

Wall, a five-time NBA All-Star in previous years, is averaging 21.0 points and 6.0 assists in 31.7 minutes per game with the Rockets. Now 30 years old, he appears to finally be healthy and explosive again after missing much of the two previous seasons due to an Achilles injury.”

Regarding Wall and the Heat, here’s what Haberstroh writes:

If the Heat decide to make a deal, rival executives wonder if a package centered on Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, and Rising Star rookie Precious Achiuwa could net another star. Heat brass have shrewdly signed Kelly Olynyk and Meyers Leonard to mid-tier contracts ($12.6 and $9.4 million respectively). Those are big enough that the Heat can likely satisfy the league’s salary-matching rules should they bring in a high-salaried star.

John Wall and Kyle Lowry are potential targets. 

While Houston has appreciated Wall’s strong play and qualities as a leader and floor general, the reality is that a team acquiring Westbrook had to send out nearly as much money as it took in, in order for the trade to be permissible within the NBA’s salary cap rules. With Westbrook making an average salary of over $44 million per season through 2022-23, that was a tough figure for most teams to reach without decimating their roster in the process. Enter Wall, who has an nearly identical deal.

...In addition, Wall’s strong play could make him more desirable on the trade market, since he appears to have quelled many of the health concerns.

Finally, the Heat — as Haberstroh notes — are potentially an exception to usual math limitations, since they have several large expiring contracts who are non-essential players. For example, Andre Iguodala, Kelly Olynyk, and Meyers Leonard would be enough for a deal to work, and the Heat might consider it, since none are essential to their title hopes.“

Edited March 6, 2021 by turtle28

[Skinsin2013]

38 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

It’s interesting to me that John Wall has the same trade interest that Brad Beal has and yet some Wizards fans still think that Wall was such a problem for the Wizards while in DC and trading him away has been a positive for them when it’s obvious on the court that Westbrook has been worse than Wall.

I think that's interesting to everyone! 🧐

[Skinsin2013]

I, long ago, documented why John Wall sucked. Fighting with teammates (annoyed Beal - well-documented), off-the-court gang-related videos, gang signs on the court (reportedly irked the upper brass), came into camp fat with heal spurs, slip-n-fall in his own home, not coming close to living up to his supermax deal, poor defender, poor volume shooter.

But, hey, he was good in the community. 

If he was as good as you all say he is, he'd still be here.

I'm glad he isn't. And a healthy Westbrook has this team moving in the right direction. Meanwhile, the Rockets... yikes!

[Skinsin2013]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:54 PM, turtle28 said:

The Rockets are missing Christian Wood & Eric Gordon. That’s 40 ppg. 
 

Stop with the culture crap when you’re not in the locker room and you have no clue about it. The problem is they’re missing two of their 3 best player and that’s it.

You put Wall back on the Wizards & I think they’re at worst .500. He’s a more efficient player than Westbrook. Wall is  shooting 5% better from 3 than Westbrook and 15% better from the free throw line. The only place Westbrook has been better than Wall is rebounding but if Westbrook wasn’t here I’m sure our forwards would be rebounding more.

So do other players step in or out when a player is missing?

I guess they step out if we're talking about Wall and the Rockets.

But they step in if we're talking about Russ and the Wiz?  😵

[turtle28]

3 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said:

I think that's interesting to everyone! 🧐

It’s obvious why. For one, the Wizards aren’t going to trade Beal. Second, Miami & others sees Wall as a possible missing piece for their team to make them a contender again.  Wall is a good player, it’s obvious. He’s even improved as a shooter in his time off with his Achilles injury vs what he was two/three years ago for the Wizards. 
 

I 100% agree Wall’s not worthy of his contract, but as I’ve said for two years, that’s not his fault. He was offered the max contract because he was coming off a career year and the Wizards almost made the conference finals in that year. In hindsight now that was a mistake by the Wizards mainly bc Wall then hurt his knees, heal & tore his achilies but no one could’ve predicted that Wall would’ve had all those injuries after he signed that contract.

I know one things for sure if Wall hadn’t tore his achillies in 2019 that the Wizards would’ve been a playoff team in 2018-2019 & 2019-2020 but we can’t do anything about that.

I think you put Wall on this team right now that they’re .500 and if they were they’d be 5th or 6th in the Eastern Conference.

[turtle28]

8 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said:

So do other players step in or out when a player is missing?

I guess they step out if we're talking about Wall and the Rockets.

But they step in if we're talking about Russ and the Wiz?  😵

How about you look at the Wizards record w/o Russ in the lineup vs the Rockets record w/o Gordon & Christian Wood in the line up. 
 

The players who are stepping in for Gordon & Wood are back of the roster type players and they aren’t producing much. Also, in the Rockets 13 game losing streak Oladipo missed several games. 
 

When Russell Westbrook was missing games earlier in the season the Wizards back up PGs (Ish Smith & Neto) were actually being more efficient than Russ at that time. Before February 9th when Russ finally started to get healthy and played more, the Wizards were 4-3 when he didn’t ply. Before February 9th, the Wizards were 2-12 when he didn’t play.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/wizards-are-getting-better-need-win-russell-westbrook%3famp

Edited March 6, 2021 by turtle28

[Skinsin2013]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

It’s obvious why. For one, the Wizards aren’t going to trade Beal. Second, Miami & others sees Wall as a possible missing piece for their team to make them a contender again.  Wall is a good player, it’s obvious. He’s even improved as a shooter in his time off with his Achilles injury vs what he was two/three years ago for the Wizards. 
 

I 100% agree Wall’s not worthy of his contract, but as I’ve said for two years, that’s not his fault. He was offered the max contract because he was coming off a career year and the Wizards almost made the conference finals in that year. In hindsight now that was a mistake by the Wizards mainly bc Wall then hurt his knees, heal & tore his achilies but no one could’ve predicted that Wall would’ve had all those injuries after he signed that contract.

I know one things for sure if Wall hadn’t tore his achillies in 2019 that the Wizards would’ve been a playoff team in 2018-2019 & 2019-2020 but we can’t do anything about that.

I think you put Wall on this team right now that they’re .500 and if they were they’d be 5th or 6th in the Eastern Conference.

We'll never know. I do know that one team is trending in the right direction and one is trending in the wrong direction (to the tune of THIRTEEN straight losses).

Point to a few missing pieces all you want. We lost our center (Wood is better), got crushed with COVID, one of our best shooters is struggling (Bertans), have two young players going through growing pains (Deni and Rui). Yet the arrow is pointing up. Russ' impact is more than just on-the-court. That's well-documented too. He's turning some of these guys in to well-rounded pros. 

[Skinsin2013]

1 minute ago, turtle28 said:

How about you look at the Wizards record w/o Russ in the lineup vs the Rockets record w/o Gordon & Christian Wood in the line up. 
 

The players who are stepping in for Gordon & Wood are back of the roster type players and they aren’t producing much. Also, in the Rockets 13 game losing streak Oladipo missed several games. 
 

When Russell Westbrook was missing games earlier in the season the Wizards back ups were actually being more efficient than Russ at that time. Before February 9th when Russ finally started to get healthy and played more, the Wizards were 4-3 when he didn’t ply. Before February 9th, the Wizards were 2-12 when he didn’t play.

Remember those John Wall on/off stats a few years ago? 😆

Please don't attempt to justify a 13 game losing streak. 

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Skinsin2013 said:

We'll never know. I do know that one team is trending in the right direction and one is trending in the wrong direction (to the tune of THIRTEEN straight losses).

Point to a few missing pieces all you want. We lost our center (Wood is better), got crushed with COVID, one of our best shooters is struggling (Bertans), have two young players going through growing pains (Deni and Rui). Yet the arrow is pointing up. Russ' impact is more than just on-the-court. That's well-documented too. He's turning some of these guys in to well-rounded pros. 

Man, does Westbrook have photos of you doing something illegal or something? 😂

They’ve certainly showed some flashes of playing better with Russ lately but I can’t ignore in each of those wins that the team we beat was missing one of their stars. So, it remains to be seen if that truly continues. 
 

Your last point is true that Russ & Beal too seem to be helping these young guys develop. I would also point to John Wall doing the same thing for the young guys on the Rockets as well, it’s obvious and it’s explicitly written about by their team beat reporter in the article I posted and quoted.

You’re hatred for John Wall is just about the most infuriating thing I’ve ever encountered on this board and blows my mind that even after he’s been traded away that you still won’t let it go. John Wall did so much for the Wizards franchise and DC in his decade here, you just gloss over that like it was nothing. Heck, a few days before he was traded away he was still out there in the community handing out food for people who needed it in the community.

But sure, he’s a bad guy... ok dude whatever