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Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread


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54 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Wait, what? What do you mean "in two seconds?"

Ya same.  Looks like a backup guard, a 25 year old 2nd year PF, and a bunch of late round firsts. 

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1 hour ago, Skinsin2013 said:

In two seconds...

Washington Wizards receive: Immanuel Quickley, Obi Toppin, No. 19 pick, 2022 first-round pick, 2023 first-round pick (via Dallas, top-10 protected), 2024 first-round pick, 2026 first-round pick (top-eight protected)

New York Knicks receive: Bradley Beal

There isn't one premium asset in this offer.  No thanks.

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You're disrespecting Quickley.

As a rookie, had a higher effFG% than Beal did in any of his first four years. 
As a rookie, shot 3 pointers at a higher clip than Beal this year.
As a rookie, shot FTs better than Beal ever has in any year.

Toppin may be a bust. But too early to tell.

Agree protections would need to be removed, especially 2026. 

But this frees up space to go after other free agents. This year's class is decent. Next year's is better.

Just want this blown up. A better younger player may be necessary I understand that.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

You're disrespecting Quickley.

As a rookie, had a higher effFG% than Beal did in any of his first four years. 
As a rookie, shot 3 pointers at a higher clip than Beal this year.
As a rookie, shot FTs better than Beal ever has in any year.

Toppin may be a bust. But too early to tell.

Agree protections would need to be removed, especially 2026. 

But this frees up space to go after other free agents. This year's class is decent. Next year's is better.

Just want this blown up. A better younger player may be necessary I understand that.

No thanks. Other teams free agents can’t touch Beal. 
 

Quickley & Toppin are fine prospects but as MKnight said there’s no premium asset in this trade, the Wizards could do much better in at least swapping out for another teams star in a trade.

You want to blow up the Wizards too bad IMO. So bad that you’re willing to trade away an All-NBA guard who nearly won the scoring title for a bunch of prospects like it’s an MLB trade for a relief pitcher! 😂 

The Wizards shouldn’t trade Beal unless he demands it or it’s a blockbuster offer they’re getting back in return with another teams star player & picks.

They can rebuild the team whenever Beal retires or if he forces a trade out of Washington IMO. I don’t get the point in trading him just to do it so they can start over. 

Edited by turtle28
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59 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

No thanks. Other teams free agents can’t touch Beal. 
 

Quickley & Toppin are fine prospects but as MKnight said there’s no premium asset in this trade, the Wizards could do much better in at least swapping out for another teams star in a trade.

You want to blow up the Wizards too bad IMO. So bad that you’re willing to trade away an All-NBA guard who nearly won the scoring title for a bunch of prospects like it’s an MLB trade for a relief pitcher! 😂 

The Wizards shouldn’t trade Beal unless he demands it or it’s a blockbuster offer they’re getting back in return with another teams star player & picks.

They can rebuild the team whenever Beal retires or if he forces a trade out of Washington IMO. I don’t get the point in trading him just to do it so they can start over. 

You like fence sitters. 

Caps blew it up. Ovi, Backy, Holtby. How'd that work out?

Nats started from scratch. Werth, Harper, Rendon, SS, added Max. How'd that work out?

Skins are in the process.

Keep thinking that building around a volume shooter, that doesn't shoot the 3 well, doesn't play defense well, will work out. Especially when he's eligible for that supermax after next year. 

A few years ago, I said I love what the Suns are doing. You can now see OKC and HOU. Meanwhile, the Wiz squeak into the first round, get bounced, and don't even have a lottery pick. 

But, yet, you likey.

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51 minutes ago, Skinsin2013 said:

You like fence sitters. 

Caps blew it up. Ovi, Backy, Holtby. How'd that work out?

Nats started from scratch. Werth, Harper, Rendon, SS, added Max. How'd that work out?

Skins are in the process.

Keep thinking that building around a volume shooter, that doesn't shoot the 3 well, doesn't play defense well, will work out. Especially when he's eligible for that supermax after next year. 

A few years ago, I said I love what the Suns are doing. You can now see OKC and HOU. Meanwhile, the Wiz squeak into the first round, get bounced, and don't even have a lottery pick. 

But, yet, you likey.

Caps had an old team two decades ago & didn’t blow it up, they rebuilt when that team was done and couldn’t compete for a championship anymore. Beal isn’t old, he just entered his prime. 
 

The Nats when they came here didn’t have anybody on Beal’s level. They were rebuilding bc they were an awful team, it’s not like they had a choice.

Skins were awful in 2019 bc they let Kirk walk & Alex broke his leg and they are currently mediocre with no long term prospect/answer at QB. They’ve been stuck in Mediocrity since 1992. I don’t really see how they actually blew anything up ever the last 3 decades and rebuilt.

Can you point me to that offseason where the Skins traded away avoid starters, multiple starters or a Super star to rebuild since 1992 bc I can’t find it?

Of course you love what the Suns are doing! They’ve built their team around Booker, the same way the Wizards are, and should continue to build the team Around Beal. If you want to blame Anyone for how up & down the team was last year you’d blame Russell Westbrook & his inconsistency who isn’t worth his max contract, not Beal, who will be worth a max contract.

The challenge for Shepherd is to find a better coach who runs an offense - not just runs iso ball all game w/ Beal & Russ - to find a coach who preaches and demands his players play defense and to find better shooters to put around Beal & Westbrook & a coach to develop the young players we have into better players. 

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2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Caps had an old team two decades ago & didn’t blow it up, they rebuilt when that team was done and couldn’t compete for a championship anymore. Beal isn’t old, he just entered his prime. 
 

The Nats when they came here didn’t have anybody on Beal’s level. They were rebuilding bc they were an awful team, it’s not like they had a choice.

Skins were awful in 2019 bc they let Kirk walk & Alex broke his leg and they are currently mediocre with no long term prospect/answer at QB. They’ve been stuck in Mediocrity since 1992. I don’t really see how they actually blew anything up ever the last 3 decades and rebuilt.

Can you point me to that offseason where the Skins traded away avoid starters, multiple starters or a Super star to rebuild since 1992 bc I can’t find it?

Of course you love what the Suns are doing! They’ve built their team around Booker, the same way the Wizards are, and should continue to build the team Around Beal. If you want to blame Anyone for how up & down the team was last year you’d blame Russell Westbrook & his inconsistency who isn’t worth his max contract, not Beal, who will be worth a max contract.

The challenge for Shepherd is to find a better coach who runs an offense - not just runs iso ball all game w/ Beal & Russ - to find a coach who preaches and demands his players play defense and to find better shooters to put around Beal & Westbrook & a coach to develop the young players we have into better players. 

Tomato / Tomatoe. Both of those teams started from scratch. Skins essentially did as well.

Booker is four years younger than Beal. And Beal has big holes in his game.

Westbrook isn't worth his contract. But he changed the culture of that team and personally willed them to a lot of wins. Yes, with a few headscratching performances as well.

Yeah... all the Wiz need is a coach.  That... and better shooters around a star... shooting guard. 😂  

Beal on a supermax. My God. THE definition of insanity. 

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https://www.nba.com/wizards/wizards-2021-mock-draft-roundup-1

Quote

Washington will pick at number 15.

Note: The following is an aggregated list of predictions from various media outlets and does not reflect the views of the Washington Wizards.

ESPN ($) – Isaiah Jackson (PF/C – Kentucky)

CBS Sports – James Bouknight (SG – Connecticut)

The Ringer – Moses Moody (SG/SF – Arkansas)

NBA Draft Net – Franz Wagner (SF/PF – Michigan)

The Athletic ($) – Corey Kispert (SF/PF – Gonzaga)

SI.com – Usman Garuba (PF/C – Spain)

Tankathon – Josh Giddey (PG – Australia)

USA Today – Alperen Sengun (C – Turkey)

Bleacher Report – Isaiah Jackson (PF/C – Kentucky)

Yahoo! Sports – Ziaire Williams (SG/SF – Stanford)

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/28/2021 at 3:52 PM, Skinsin2013 said:

Tomato / Tomatoe. Both of those teams started from scratch. Skins essentially did as well.

Booker is four years younger than Beal. And Beal has big holes in his game.

Westbrook isn't worth his contract. But he changed the culture of that team and personally willed them to a lot of wins. Yes, with a few headscratching performances as well.

Yeah... all the Wiz need is a coach.  That... and better shooters around a star... shooting guard. 😂  

Beal on a supermax. My God. THE definition of insanity. 

Well trading away Beal on a deal that isn’t market value for him is also the definition of Wizards insanity - doing the same thing over and over - remember when they traded away Rasheed Wallace & Webber when they were young and would be in their primes in the 90s for Strickland & Richmond?

Trading away Beal for a package that doesn’t blow them away would be equivalent to the Bullets/Wizards making those awful trades in the 90s.

They need to build around Beal IMO. They need to continue to develop their front young talent (Avdija, Rui, Bryant & Gafford) plus, add some more through FA & the draft.

Edited by turtle28
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4 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Kispert or Wagner are who I want but I don’t believe he’ll be there. If we got one of them, I think they’re an immediate starter at SF as a 3 & D SF/shooter that Westbrook can hit for open shots. 
 

That would allow Avdija to come off the bench and lead that second unit as a playmaker which would be good for in also.

I’d love to get Booknight too, I’d be nice to have a 3rd guard like him to back up Russ & Beal. He’d be great for our 2nd unit.

The rest of those guys except for Moody, are probably deep bench players as rookies who we would develop to hopefully have bigger roles in their 2nd season. I could see Moody being our 9th or 10th guy but I think Avdija would start at SF over him.

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On 6/28/2021 at 10:41 AM, MKnight82 said:

There isn't one premium asset in this offer.  No thanks.

Yeah. I’m okay with trading Beal. Actually I think it’s probably necessary. 

But I feel like you can’t do it for that package.* It’s the kind of thing teams will probably be throwing out there, deals that attempt to make up for a lack of high-end assets with a large quantity of so-so assets. I don’t think we should take a puu-puu platter of likely complementary players in return for one of the league’s top 20-25 players. 

If Toppin is the headliner, I don’t see a fit. Seems very redundant with Rui — both pure 4s, not going to be super switchable defensively, not big shooters or rim protectors or even major above-the-rim lob threats. I can’t really even come up with a good lineup where I think you could reasonably play them together. I’m okay with asset accumulation over roster fit, in a general sense, in a straight up rebuild. But the headliner of a trade for an All-NBA player?

Quickley is a guy who looks to me to be on the Jamal Crawford trajectory. More shooter than scorer, but a guy who will get hot some nights and really light up the nets. Which is a valuable role player, but there are significant limitations on undersized guards who don’t finish or distribute at an elite level.

All those 1st round picks sound great, but unless the Knicks implode, they’re not likely to yield franchise-changing picks. Maybe in 2026, kinda hard to project where any team will be that far down the road. More picks is always better than less, but you need superstars in this league, and it’s hard to put too much money on finding them with those picks (as I’d project them to land). 

In any event, it’s not a terrible or ludicrous offer, but I wouldn’t take it. If they wanted to add RJ Barrett instead of Toppin, I’d be more intrigued by the ceiling. Two young 40% 3pt shooting wings to add to Deni and Rui would be an interesting core. Find a star PG and you might really have something. 

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I really wish we could look at the Knicks as a means of dumping Westbrook, though, and send Beal elsewhere.

Not many teams would even consider taking Westbrook on — they don’t need a PG, or they’re not currently competitive, or they can’t take on the salary, or they can’t justify losing the guys they’d have to give up to take on the salary. Of all the teams likely to have significant cap space, the Knicks are the only one you can really look (and squint) and possibly envision trading for Westbrook. 

I have absolutely no idea what we could get for him. On one hand, I would assume almost nothing, but I think his value is probably about as variable in the minds of different observers as just about any player in recent memory. Maybe Thibs loves his toughness and work ethic. Maybe Leon Rose and World Wide Wes and the gang would highly value the star power and profile of a HOF player like Westbrook. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, e16bball said:

I really wish we could look at the Knicks as a means of dumping Westbrook, though, and send Beal elsewhere.

Not many teams would even consider taking Westbrook on — they don’t need a PG, or they’re not currently competitive, or they can’t take on the salary, or they can’t justify losing the guys they’d have to give up to take on the salary. Of all the teams likely to have significant cap space, the Knicks are the only one you can really look (and squint) and possibly envision trading for Westbrook. 

I have absolutely no idea what we could get for him. On one hand, I would assume almost nothing, but I think his value is probably about as variable in the minds of different observers as just about any player in recent memory. Maybe Thibs loves his toughness and work ethic. Maybe Leon Rose and World Wide Wes and the gang would highly value the star power and profile of a HOF player like Westbrook. 

I think we’re stuck with Westbrook. I’d actually buy him out when we can, is that this year or next? He makes $44 million this year & freakin $47 million in the last year of his contract, heck of a deal for a guard in his 30s who can’t shoot! That being said, I don’t they want to make Beal unhappy and keeping Westbrook around at the least keeps us a playoff team w/ Beal and that will probably keep him from asking for a trade.

I don’t think Beal will want a trade, I don’t think the Wizards front office wants to trade Beal either. I also don’t think Westbrook is trade-able or Bertans, so I don’t really see how this roster can greatly improve short of Bryant coming back being healthy & still shooting 43% from 3 as a stretch 5, Gafford developing a little bit of a jumper and some post moves, and Avdija/Rui developing into around 35% shooters from 3 and them adding a 3 & D wing in free agency to either start over Avdija or come off the bench.

And, even if all that happens - likely not - we’ll still be at best a 5 seed IMO and probably more in the 6-8 range and probably lose in the 1st round again.

It just is what it is. And, short of totally getting blown away from a Beal offer or Beal telling them he’s not re-signing in DC & demanding a trade, I don’t see them trading him. 
 

I think they’re just going to comintue to build around Beal and he’s an All-NBA player, like you said top 25 player who could still improve his 3-pt shot and become an even better scorer if he does that. 
 

What needs to happen for the Wizards to really improve is to get from out under the Westbrook contract and then to sign one or two players to max deals or near max deals with the money opened up from when Westbrook’s deal is up to play alongside Beal & hopefully by then Rui & Avdija have developed into good starters too.

Then, and only then can I see this team being better than a back half of the playoff seeded team.

Edited by turtle28
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Posted (edited)

Two trades suggested by ESPN (out of 6 total proposals, you never see the Wizards get that much attention!)

Trade One

Wizards Get: Andrew Wiggins + #2 pick

Rockets Get: James Wiseman + #7 pick + #14 pick

Warriors Get: Bradley Beal, Avery Bradley

Trade Two

Wizards Get: Ben Simmons + George Hill

Sixers Get: Russell Westbrook + #15 pick

Edited by e16bball
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9 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Two trades suggested by ESPN (out of 6 total proposals, you never see the Wizards get that much attention!)

Trade One

Wizards Get: Andrew Wiggins + #2 pick

Rockets Get: James Wiseman + #7 pick + #14 pick

Warriors Get: Bradley Beal, Avery Bradley

If I knew we were getting Cunningham, I'd be more receptive to this. I'm still thinking it's not enough.

9 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Trade Two

Wizards Get: Ben Simmons + George Hill

Sixers Get: Russell Westbrook + #15 pick

I'd do this. It'd be worth taking a shot at fixing Ben somewhere else. 

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