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Off-Topic: The Washington Wizards Thread


turtle28

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7 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

Everyone is shooting 3's these days (even Power Forwards and Center's) that's why Wall is allowed to do the same, even though he isn't that great at it. The game has changed. I would prefer the 3's being taken by guys like Beal, Porter, Morris, or Green. I don't follow every game, but I keep hearing and reading all this negative talk about Wall because of his contract like Beal and Porter are playing lights out when thats clearly not the case. 

We’re pretty much on the same page. The truth is no one on the roster is playing consistently as well as they can. Thomas Bryant night actually be their most consitent player right now which is quite unbelievable.

Porter has missed 9 games this year and is shooting 7% worse from 3 than he did last year and maybe Wall has something to do with that, but it’s not all Wall’s fault, most of it is because Porter is just missing his shots.

Beal has shot a worse % from 3 in each of the last two years. He and Porter both need to get better on their 3 point shots and I 100% agree that Wall should shoot less 3’s and only wide open 3s. 

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Not sure who to respond to. So I'll just respond.

3 pt %s are down because the offense, when Wall is leading it, is iso-driven and generally slow. John might get quick bigs (e.g., Bryant) some easy looks. But he's not doing anything for spot-up shooters. Beal's shooting % is the second best of his career. But his 3pt % is the worst. I tend to think Beal's percentages, no matter how good or bad, are on him. He's a true iso offensive player... by design.

If you're reading and hearing about Wall, but not watching the games, that's on you. Furthermore, just dig into a few stats. Wall is Wall. His FG% is actually decent this year. But he's shooting the most 3s he's ever shot. But his 3pt% is crap. He thrives inside the arc where he shots 50%. He's proven time and time again that his bread and butter is driving to the hoop. But he's completely inconsistent at taking advantage of that. This year, he's grabbing rebounds at the lowest rate of his career. Getting to the rim, and rebounding, are purely hustle and desire. I already posted Ben Standing's take on his defense. He has one of the lowest defensive ratings in the NBA. Guarding the perimeter has probably been our Achilles heal this year. That starts with guards guarding.

Best Net Rating (off - def rating) on the Wiz (over 16 mins):
Otto
Rivers
Sato
Green
Beal
Wall
Ariza
Oubre
Morris
Howard

If these rankings don't make sense to you, you either 1) don't watch the games; or 2) don't value much of anything beyond bulk shooting.

To Turtle, no one is solely blaming Wall. I've seen Wall jockers say the same thing. That's just being sensitive. I DO absolutely think he's the biggest problem this year and, more importantly, moving forward. There's a reason he has the most difficult contract to trade.

I agree with you about accountability issues. I just hope Wall hasn't checked out at this point. My biggest problem with Brooks is that he plays journeymen like Randle and Dekker (who I like) over our #1 pick, TBJ, that needs to be developed with NBA minutes. I also don't think he plays Bryant ENOUGH. I think he's afraid of benching Wall and Beal for a stretch of a game. I LOVE that he yelled at Wall during a practice a few weeks ago.

Porter's PPGs come with shots. They've shown flashes of getting his shots early. But then they move away from him. Could he be more aggressive? Sure. He could work his *** off to grab a rebound and get a put-back. But they legitimately phase him out for long stretches. In terms of creating his own shot, once he gets the ball, set him a screen and he's fine. Wall calls for screens all the time. Otto has twig legs. Gortat was right when he said he needed to bulk up. He did a bit. But he still has work to do so he can get buckets around the rim.

Keef is terrible. Howard is overrated. Both are slow, aging dinosaurs. And even Ariza is overrated. Love the guy. But he's a supposed to be 3 and D. He's not doing either of those well. Probably, and understandably, because he's in his 15th year. Randle and Baker are a waste of time.

Guys I like - Green, Bryant, Sato, Beal, Porter, Dekker, TBJ. High IQ (most of em) and high energy (all of em).

If the Wiz don't move one or more of these big contract, we're in big trouble for years to come.

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So yeah, I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. Honestly, I think it’s the first time in this entire thread that you haven’t solely blamed Wall and that’s the honesty I’m actually looking for so congratulations.

I still say Otto’s issues are partly his own and you are continually giving him a pass when he’s shooting his 2nd worse 3 pt percentage of his career. Both he and Beal’s 3 pt shooting is down, that just can’t be all another players fault but their own! If some of Beal’s shooting % decline is on Beal himself, then so is Otto’s, he’s frankly missing 3 pt shots that he made the previous two years. And yes, he gets a lot of his scoring off of Wall creating open looks for him which is also an issue. To me a max player shouldn’t just be a 3 & D guy, they need to be more. In hindsight, I think Ernie made a mistake by giving Otto the max bc he’s not able to create a lot offense on his own. That’s a huge issue. 

I totally agree that’s Wall is shooting too many 3’s, I don’t understand why other than he’s being lazy bc he’s never going to be a 40% 3-pt shooter. He needs to only be shooting wide open 3s that happen bc it’s been swung to him and he’s open.

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4 hours ago, Skinsin2013 said:

Beal is 14th in the NBA in scoring... but that's not good enough because he isn't top 10?  O.o

Have you seen Wall's home/away splits?  O.o

Have you seen what Wall has done since the LA game? O.o

He's definitely the most inconsistent of the three.

How can a supermax guard shoot 69% from the FT line? Why does he shoot 5 3pt shots a game when he only shoots 30% from 3?

 

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1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

So yeah, I agree with a lot of what you’ve said. Honestly, I think it’s the first time in this entire thread that you haven’t solely blamed Wall and that’s the honesty I’m actually looking for so congratulations.

I still say Otto’s issues are partly his own and you are continually giving him a pass when he’s shooting his 2nd worse 3 pt percentage of his career. Both he and Beal’s 3 pt shooting is down, that just can’t be all another players fault but their own! If some of Beal’s shooting % decline is on Beal himself, then so is Otto’s, he’s frankly missing 3 pt shots that he made the previous two years. And yes, he gets a lot of his scoring off of Wall creating open looks for him which is also an issue. To me a max player shouldn’t just be a 3 & D guy, they need to be more. In hindsight, I think Ernie made a mistake by giving Otto the max bc he’s not able to create a lot offense on his own. That’s a huge issue. 

I totally agree that’s Wall is shooting too many 3’s, I don’t understand why other than he’s being lazy bc he’s never going to be a 40% 3-pt shooter. He needs to only be showering wide open 3s that happen bc it’s been swung to him and he’s open.

When Wall was out last year, Otto's usage and effectiveness rate went UP. I can't say he was creating his shot more. But we saw that the pass rates went up. At one point, they were right up there with GS. That's when the "everyone eats" mantra came about. Team passing leads to better looks.

I think we're seeing a lot of shooting %s drop this year because of the slow-paced offense. It's just easier to defend.

I said what I said about Beal because he's a iso guy by design. Otto isn't. So it's not a free pass. I'm just pointing out there are obvious differences in how they get/create shots. Beal kills me because he runs a country mile, around three screens, just to get the ball for an iso. It's the silliest waste of energy I've seen on a basketball court.

Otto isn't a max player. But he could certainly be closer to one in a system where the ball moves. SA, MIN, Utah, GS, BOS, etc. If he were traded, I'd be cool with it really. He's wasted here.

Honestly, if ANY of them were traded, I'd be fine with it. The Wiz need to blow this mess up. The Oubre trade was an abomination. Ariza will walk after the year. So that makes this a rental trade for a 15 year vet that isn't a particularly good 3 and D player anymore. Wall's supermax is gonna be painful. Beal would get the most return on a trade. Otto isn't a max and could use a change of scenery.

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1 hour ago, Skinsin2013 said:

When Wall was out last year, Otto's usage and effectiveness rate went UP. I can't say he was creating his shot more. But we saw that the pass rates went up. At one point, they were right up there with GS. That's when the "everyone eats" mantra came about. Team passing leads to better looks.

I think we're seeing a lot of shooting %s drop this year because of the slow-paced offense. It's just easier to defend.

I said what I said about Beal because he's a iso guy by design. Otto isn't. So it's not a free pass. I'm just pointing out there are obvious differences in how they get/create shots. Beal kills me because he runs a country mile, around three screens, just to get the ball for an iso. It's the silliest waste of energy I've seen on a basketball court.

Otto isn't a max player. But he could certainly be closer to one in a system where the ball moves. SA, MIN, Utah, GS, BOS, etc. If he were traded, I'd be cool with it really. He's wasted here.

Honestly, if ANY of them were traded, I'd be fine with it. The Wiz need to blow this mess up. The Oubre trade was an abomination. Ariza will walk after the year. So that makes this a rental trade for a 15 year vet that isn't a particularly good 3 and D player anymore. Wall's supermax is gonna be painful. Beal would get the most return on a trade. Otto isn't a max and could use a change of scenery.

Well of course Otto’s usage rate went up, there was the teams perenial All-Star who wasn’t playing, so a guy like Otto - who’s supposed to be the teams 3rd best player - got more shots.

The “everyone eats bs that tore this team apart last year” lasted a few weeks. We’ve had this conversation over and over all year. The Wizards played well w/o Wall for less than a month last year and then they started to decline and nearly missed the playoffs altogether mainly bc Wall missed 1/2 the year with his knee injury.

I don’t know how old you are, but I’m pushing 40. I’ll be 40 in May. I don’t want to go back to watching the Wizards be a team that only wins 30 games a year at best. So, no, I’m not for blowing up the entire team. 

Judging by Wizards twitter and blogs, I’m in the minority on not wanting to blow the team up. I’d rather move some pieces around for other stars, but I’m not in favor of ”blowing it up” which I equate to tanking. I just don’t want the Wizards to go back to a bottom feeding team so soon after being one for most of my lifetime.

The Wizards need to trade Markieff Morris before the trade deadline for anything and if not, I wouldn’t re-sign him in July. 

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19 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Well of course Otto’s usage rate went up, there was the teams perenial All-Star who wasn’t playing, so a guy like Otto - who’s supposed to be the teams 3rd best player - got more shots.

We're the same age. LOL.

Trading Keef doesn't fix anything. I mean a bit of addition by subtraction. But they're not getting much back in return for him.

The Wiz weren't better off without Wall. But they weren't that much worse off. And that is an indictment. This year, they HAVE been better off without him. They've been worse  without Otto. And we're in danger of missing the playoffs this year. So we need to do more than remove Keef.

I'm a blow it up and rebuild kind of guy. Much like the Caps did in the Jagr years. That short-term pain eventually turns into long-term gain.

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1 hour ago, Skinsin2013 said:

We're the same age. LOL.

Trading Keef doesn't fix anything. I mean a bit of addition by subtraction. But they're not getting much back in return for him.

The Wiz weren't better off without Wall. But they weren't that much worse off. And that is an indictment. This year, they HAVE been better off without him. They've been worse  without Otto. And we're in danger of missing the playoffs this year. So we need to do more than remove Keef.

I'm a blow it up and rebuild kind of guy. Much like the Caps did in the Jagr years. That short-term pain eventually turns into long-term gain.

How have they been better off w/o Wall this year? He’s only missed 3 games I believe and I don’t remember them balling out in any of them. It’s also not a big enough sample size.

Other than when you’re saying he’s not on the court during a game which most of the time when that happens the other players are going agaisnt backs ups like I said before and if players like Beal & Porter are going agaisnt back up and they should be doing better in that case.

Yeah, I get you’re a blow up kind of guy. I’ve read that since you joined. If I remember correctly you, Mknight and others also wanted to trade Ovy off the Capitals last year or before last year and all they did was go out and win the whole damn thing.

Blowinb up everything isn’t always the best course of action, it’s often the easiest thing to do if, IF you don’t care what you back in return for your good to great assets which IMO doesn’t make much sense.

You also shouldn’t sell low, if you do want to make major change, you sell high. So, trading Wall, Beal and Porter while they’re not playing their  best - or in Porter’s case having missed 8 or 9 straight games -  doesn’t make much sense unless you’re trying avoid Wall’s super max kick in I guess.

I still don’t see it happening, our entire discussion for the last 6 months is moot bc Ted isn’t going to trade Wall. He’s just won’t. I guess it keeps you busy with writing material for Bullets Forever, but it’s a fantasy.

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When I say we've been better off without Wall this year, I mean his net rating AND the games he's missed.

We've been better off with him off the court than on.

PG is a clear #2. Otto is an afterthought.

PG shoots 20 shots a game at a 45% clip. Otto shoots 9.5 shots a game at a 49% clip.

Usage matters.

If we traded Ovi 6 years ago, when I started saying that, we would have had a Cup sooner... probably multiple Cups. It took Ovi way too long to reinvent his game. [Some of this is tongue in cheek of course]

And of course you maximize trades/returns when you blow a team up.

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1 hour ago, Skinsin2013 said:

 

If we traded Ovi 6 years ago, when I started saying that, we would have had a Cup sooner... probably multiple Cups. It took Ovi way too long to reinvent his game. [Some of this is tongue in cheek of course]

And of course you maximize trades/returns when you blow a team up.

Sure buddy... Take the greatest player or 2nd greatest player in the world off the Caps and they would’ve won a cup faster or more cups? Yeah, I doubt it.

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On 12/26/2018 at 9:37 PM, Skinsin2013 said:

John Wall with 2 points in the second half tonight. 8 assists; 6 turnovers. 2 of 7 from the 3pt line.

SUPERmax!!!

So they were suppose to sign both Beal and Porter but let Wall go is what your tryna say buy constantly only talking about Walls numbers? 

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