ragevsuall17 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I'll switch my vote to Bryan... Anything in order to change that Sweat pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSlim Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Outside of the injury concerns, why do so many like Bryan so much more than Sweat. I hear about Sweat's lack of production, then I look and see Bryan only had 10.5 TFL and 5.5 sacks in his collegiate career. I hear how raw Sweat is, then I watch Bryan highlights and see a guy just as raw. I hear how, with his athletic ability, once Bryan gets coached up he'll be a beast and think about how it's the exact same thing with Sweat. Don't get me wrong, I like Bryan but I just don't get how you can be upset about potentially getting Sweat but not Bryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin615$ Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 This draft would be worst case scenario and I would be so so sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragevsuall17 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 7 hours ago, TitanSlim said: Outside of the injury concerns, why do so many like Bryan so much more than Sweat. I hear about Sweat's lack of production, then I look and see Bryan only had 10.5 TFL and 5.5 sacks in his collegiate career. I hear how raw Sweat is, then I watch Bryan highlights and see a guy just as raw. I hear how, with his athletic ability, once Bryan gets coached up he'll be a beast and think about how it's the exact same thing with Sweat. Don't get me wrong, I like Bryan but I just don't get how you can be upset about potentially getting Sweat but not Bryan. I guess right off the top, you can't just compare stats. Bryan plays exclusively inside, and thus sack numbers won't typically match up to the outside guys, which is where Sweat typically lines up (4-3 DE). The biggest thing that makes Sweat a project is that there are so many unknowns... His injury history and concerns are significant and have to be considered (like it should be with Hurst's health, a guy who would otherwise be a top 10 prospect). Here's a quick scouting report from nfl.com touching some of those questions with Sweat, ans why the 2nd and especial ally 3rd round make more sense for him: Sweat has the length, frame and athletic qualities to fit right in as a 3-4 SAM or rush linebacker, but he needs to go to school with a position coach or a talented veteran to help unlock his pass rush potential. Sweat's initial quickness and issues with contact balance could hinder his ability to play with his hand down. He has the ability to become a decent NFL starter but there is a wide disparity between his ceiling and floor thanks to concerns surrounding the current and future health of his knee. Hits snooze button off the snap and is always the last one out of his stance Late start creates challenges beating tackles upfield Frame carries a lean lower body Forced to work overtime to try and anchor against power Lacks leg drive to play through redirect blocks In a constant state of forward lean creating below average contact balance Drops head and loses sight on ball carrier Segmented mover as pass rusher with no real plan Decelerates when approaching the edge Hard to find a legitimate inside counter move on tape Motor runs hot and cold Scouts are concerned with his medicals Had severe knee injury his senior year of high school and a meniscus injury in 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSlim Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said: I guess right off the top, you can't just compare stats. Bryan plays exclusively inside, and thus sack numbers won't typically match up to the outside guys, which is where Sweat typically lines up (4-3 DE). The biggest thing that makes Sweat a project is that there are so many unknowns... His injury history and concerns are significant and have to be considered (like it should be with Hurst's health, a guy who would otherwise be a top 10 prospect). Here's a quick scouting report from nfl.com touching some of those questions with Sweat, ans why the 2nd and especial ally 3rd round make more sense for him: Sweat has the length, frame and athletic qualities to fit right in as a 3-4 SAM or rush linebacker, but he needs to go to school with a position coach or a talented veteran to help unlock his pass rush potential. Sweat's initial quickness and issues with contact balance could hinder his ability to play with his hand down. He has the ability to become a decent NFL starter but there is a wide disparity between his ceiling and floor thanks to concerns surrounding the current and future health of his knee. Hits snooze button off the snap and is always the last one out of his stance Late start creates challenges beating tackles upfield Frame carries a lean lower body Forced to work overtime to try and anchor against power Lacks leg drive to play through redirect blocks In a constant state of forward lean creating below average contact balance Drops head and loses sight on ball carrier Segmented mover as pass rusher with no real plan Decelerates when approaching the edge Hard to find a legitimate inside counter move on tape Motor runs hot and cold Scouts are concerned with his medicals Had severe knee injury his senior year of high school and a meniscus injury in 2016 True, Sweat played mostly outside in a 4-3, but for some strange reason FSU had him mostly played 5 technique role in it. He rarely was in a position to show his athletic ability to be pass rusher. The injury is definitely a concern and would be the main reason why I'd hesitate to pick him in the first. However, if we were to pick him at 25, I would think that shows that our medical staff is very comfortable in his knee now and for the future. I'm not saying Sweat isn't flawless. It's just that I can think of worse picks than adding a recently turned 21 year old with his athletic abilities to be our 3rd pass rusher. Even in that NFL draft profile, it talked about him going to a team with a good position coach(not a position coach but Vrabel is well regarded with his coaching/development of front 7 guys) and/or a vet to learn behind (we have two). Plus, admittedly I'm a sucker for younger prospects. It's why I was pretty high on JuJu Smith-Schuster last year and why I'm high on Sweat and Rasheem Green this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityNow Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 hours ago, TitanSlim said: True, Sweat played mostly outside in a 4-3, but for some strange reason FSU had him mostly played 5 technique role in it. He rarely was in a position to show his athletic ability to be pass rusher. The injury is definitely a concern and would be the main reason why I'd hesitate to pick him in the first. However, if we were to pick him at 25, I would think that shows that our medical staff is very comfortable in his knee now and for the future. I'm not saying Sweat isn't flawless. It's just that I can think of worse picks than adding a recently turned 21 year old with his athletic abilities to be our 3rd pass rusher. Even in that NFL draft profile, it talked about him going to a team with a good position coach(not a position coach but Vrabel is well regarded with his coaching/development of front 7 guys) and/or a vet to learn behind (we have two). Plus, admittedly I'm a sucker for younger prospects. It's why I was pretty high on JuJu Smith-Schuster last year and why I'm high on Sweat and Rasheem Green this year. One interesting aspect about Sweat that I heard at his pro day. He said that he played with a brace all year after the knee injury and he took it off after the season, and he said his flexibility was so much better and he felt like he could've put up way better numbers if he would've just played without the brace all year. Obviously kind of one of those "take it with a grain of salt" things, because players are always going to find excuses as to why they didn't produce the way the way that they wanted to, but a combination of the scheme at FSU and his overall lack of movement/explosion because of the brace makes sense to me. I still wouldn't feel comfortable taking him at 25, because there's just so many unknown variables and projections there. However, I can see the appeal if we've seen an explosion/burst from him in workouts without the brace that we didn't see on tape. Combine that with him playing out of position, and there could be something there. The athletic traits are definitely there for success, but getting to the bottom of how much the injury and scheme effected his overall production is crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I honestly would trade down if that is the case. I know some of ya'll keep telling me that Sweat is an 1st round pick, but I'm having a hard time seeing it. Reading everything about him, he just sounds like another freak of a HS/College player that suffered an injury and isn't what he was. Still good, but not transcendent like he could have been. I don't think he is garbage, but I see an middle of the 2nd round player. He reminds me of Jordan Willis last year and Willis didn't get drafted until the 3rd. I need ya'll to help me fall for Sweat like you all have. lol Make me fall for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerenityNow Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, KingTitan said: I honestly would trade down if that is the case. I know some of ya'll keep telling me that Sweat is an 1st round pick, but I'm having a hard time seeing it. Reading everything about him, he just sounds like another freak of a HS/College player that suffered an injury and isn't what he was. Still good, but not transcendent like he could have been. I don't think he is garbage, but I see an middle of the 2nd round player. He reminds me of Jordan Willis last year and Willis didn't get drafted until the 3rd. I need ya'll to help me fall for Sweat like you all have. lol Make me fall for him. I agree. If Sweat’s really the guy we want I fully believe we could trade down to the second and still land him. The combo of his mediocre tape no matter what the circumstance was behind it and the injury just make it too much of a risk in the first for me. KT, I don’t think there’s a ton to fall in love with for Sweat as far as actual tape goes. The tape is what it is, and will always leave a lot to be desired. He’s completely a projection pick. What we think he could be in a 3-4 defense along with what we think he’ll be without the knee brace now that the injury is seemingly behind him. It’s all traits based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, SerenityNow said: I agree. If Sweat’s really the guy we want I fully believe we could trade down to the second and still land him. The combo of his mediocre tape no matter what the circumstance was behind it and the injury just make it too much of a risk in the first for me. KT, I don’t think there’s a ton to fall in love with for Sweat as far as actual tape goes. The tape is what it is, and will always leave a lot to be desired. He’s completely a projection pick. What we think he could be in a 3-4 defense along with what we think he’ll be without the knee brace now that the injury is seemingly behind him. It’s all traits based. Good fair post! With him being a projection, I don't think he is the pick. Robinson early hasn't shown to be a guy to flirt with projection or measurable type guy. He goes off production that matches measurables or at least in Corey Davis' case presumed measurables. The pick that I'm still not behind is Sam Hubbard. I could see him being the pick at #25. He has some modest production at a power five and decent workout. Still would rather trade back but I can see Hubbard before Sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanSlim Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 hour ago, KingTitan said: I honestly would trade down if that is the case. I know some of ya'll keep telling me that Sweat is an 1st round pick, but I'm having a hard time seeing it. Reading everything about him, he just sounds like another freak of a HS/College player that suffered an injury and isn't what he was. Still good, but not transcendent like he could have been. I don't think he is garbage, but I see an middle of the 2nd round player. He reminds me of Jordan Willis last year and Willis didn't get drafted until the 3rd. I need ya'll to help me fall for Sweat like you all have. lol Make me fall for him. Check out this article on him...https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2018/3/22/17102350/2018-nfl-draft-josh-sweat Gives a nice, pretty thorough breakdown of him and his fit with us. And hey, if you can't "fall for him" then you just don't. It happens. Conversations like this is what makes the draft process fun for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTitan Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, TitanSlim said: Check out this article on him...https://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2018/3/22/17102350/2018-nfl-draft-josh-sweat Gives a nice, pretty thorough breakdown of him and his fit with us. And hey, if you can't "fall for him" then you just don't. It happens. Conversations like this is what makes the draft process fun for me. I will say this is a rather convincing breakdown. Definitely would be an interesting pick at #25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titanrick Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Another article on Sweat that influenced how I view him: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2770048-the-josh-sweat-miracle-from-leg-snapped-in-half-to-fastest-de-in-the-draft I'd love to see Davenport (highly unlikely) or Vander Esch (unlikely) there when we pick but if they're not, I could get on board with Sweat. I think his ceiling is really high if you believe that he's been recovering from a gruesome injury. If he gets another year out from that, and now that he's lost the brace, I think there's a possibility he turns that potential into reality. Picking at 25 is very unfamiliar to us but finding a rare game-changing talent isn't as realistic as when you're picking in the top 12 spots. You have to take some gambles and if we do our homework on Sweat and come away thinking he can be a game-changing talent, I'll be very excited with the pick. I do get the feeling we jump up 3-7 spots and grab someone who JRob really likes. I don't see that being Sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.