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Second Attempt.


Heavydan85

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14 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

They drafted Michael Roberts last year and they signed Luke Willson and Levine Toilolo this year. They already have the three tight ends that will make the final 53 man roster. Eric Ebron was drafted under a different head coach and general manager. This regime will not be drafting a tight end in round 1. 

Like I said, it's lazy and bad

Willson and Toilolo are at best ok second TE options, Roberts has 4 career receptions...if you don't think they could improve you are headed for disappointment. I think OL or DL SHOULD be their pick, But if they like a TE, they get first pick at that position in this scenario and very well may take one.

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5 hours ago, Heavydan85 said:

Willson and Toilolo are at best ok second TE options, Roberts has 4 career receptions...if you don't think they could improve you are headed for disappointment. I think OL or DL SHOULD be their pick, But if they like a TE, they get first pick at that position in this scenario and very well may take one.

The Lions have been doing a lot of homework on mid-later round TEs. So, I'm not going to say it's impossible that they take a TE during this draft. But I'm saying it's improbable that they take one in the first couple rounds. Bob Quinn has shown in the past he'll sell out in order to improve the o-line. Before he takes luxury positions like TE, WR, or even RB he wants to get the o-line right.

Roberts was a rookie TE and wasn't really asked to do much (behind Ebron & Fells). So, using his "career" stats seems a bit disingenuous. Nor should we expect Roberts to ever be a fantasy TE who will have consistent Gronk-type stats, but he is an end zone target who can be effective in doses.

There are more than enough targets in the passing game with their (4 deep) WRs + the RBs they have are good receivers (though I don't remember if Blount has hands).

I'm not sure if JBC knows what to do with a TE, anyway. He didn't really call up that many plays that made Ebron the primary.

So, if there isn't an impact Edge-Rusher available at 20, o-line is very much viable. Also, if there is a DT who can make an impact, they have needs at 3T and a long term NT.

Above all, though, when you try to get into Bob Quinn's mind, think "versatile." Bob loves him some versatile.

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7 hours ago, Heavydan85 said:

Willson and Toilolo are at best ok second TE options, Roberts has 4 career receptions...if you don't think they could improve you are headed for disappointment. I think OL or DL SHOULD be their pick, But if they like a TE, they get first pick at that position in this scenario and very well may take one.

Obviously they could improve, but they could improve at literally every position so that argument doesn't make sense. They are only going to carry three tight ends and those are the three they are going to have on the roster. Roberts showed a lot of good stuff last year. Willson was productive despite being underused, he will produce a lot more in this offense and he can block well. Toilolo made a few plays for the Falcons but all he has to do is replace Darren Fells which shouldn't be hard because he's just as good of a blocker and is probably more skilled as a receiver. This offense doesn't need great tight ends, all they have to do is be decent blockers and not drop the ball when it's thrown their way. 

And, if they were to draft a tight end, it wouldn't be Hayden Hurst. He's old and isn't very talented. There are a number of tight ends in this draft that are better players than him and they are younger, so they will develop even more. 

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11 hours ago, IDOG_det said:

Obviously they could improve, but they could improve at literally every position so that argument doesn't make sense. They are only going to carry three tight ends and those are the three they are going to have on the roster. Roberts showed a lot of good stuff last year. Willson was productive despite being underused, he will produce a lot more in this offense and he can block well. Toilolo made a few plays for the Falcons but all he has to do is replace Darren Fells which shouldn't be hard because he's just as good of a blocker and is probably more skilled as a receiver. This offense doesn't need great tight ends, all they have to do is be decent blockers and not drop the ball when it's thrown their way. 

And, if they were to draft a tight end, it wouldn't be Hayden Hurst. He's old and isn't very talented. There are a number of tight ends in this draft that are better players than him and they are younger, so they will develop even more. 

Well Yes a team can theoretically improve at all positions, but if they can get an actually starter over cast off backups, they should definitely look to improve.  There positions of need and almost every list I have seen for the Lions lists te somewhere.  

Also I didn't have them draft Hurst so here I am arguing with someone that can't even read the mock...so that's cool.

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12 hours ago, Myth said:

The Lions have been doing a lot of homework on mid-later round TEs. So, I'm not going to say it's impossible that they take a TE during this draft. But I'm saying it's improbable that they take one in the first couple rounds. Bob Quinn has shown in the past he'll sell out in order to improve the o-line. Before he takes luxury positions like TE, WR, or even RB he wants to get the o-line right.

Roberts was a rookie TE and wasn't really asked to do much (behind Ebron & Fells). So, using his "career" stats seems a bit disingenuous. Nor should we expect Roberts to ever be a fantasy TE who will have consistent Gronk-type stats, but he is an end zone target who can be effective in doses.

There are more than enough targets in the passing game with their (4 deep) WRs + the RBs they have are good receivers (though I don't remember if Blount has hands).

I'm not sure if JBC knows what to do with a TE, anyway. He didn't really call up that many plays that made Ebron the primary.

So, if there isn't an impact Edge-Rusher available at 20, o-line is very much viable. Also, if there is a DT who can make an impact, they have needs at 3T and a long term NT.

Above all, though, when you try to get into Bob Quinn's mind, think "versatile." Bob loves him some versatile.

If I were them I'd probably go og or dl. But their head coach has witnessed what a stud te can do for a team.

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Just now, Heavydan85 said:

If I were them I'd probably go og or dl. But their head coach has witnessed what a stud te can do for a team.

Do you really think any of these TEs is as good as Gronk? I dont. Not even close to last year's group, even. Nonetheless, Matt Patricia is going to have a lot of input on defense, but is giving JBC a lot more say over the offense. 

Matty P. is the HC. And as much as he and Bob Quinn are in lockstep, Bob Q. is the GM and makes the calls on personnel. Coaches look short term. GMs look long term. Bob Q has been focused on completing the o-line for the offense for over 2 years now, committed to building the team through the draft, rather than free agency. I don't see him giving up on that focus yet. It may not be in the first round, but I would bet it's within the first 3 rounds that he takes an o-line player. But now Quinn, with Patricia finally in house, can finally commit to the hybrid 34 defensive players he's been used to scouting and start filling the roster with pass-rushing OLBs and NT to his heart's content.

 

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Editing now, changed the Lions to Bryan, Bengals to Daniels, Jags get LVE, browns trade up with pats for 30 instead of bears/trading up with jags (still take Miller, but only costs 33 and 175)...

Pick Team Position Player
1 Browns QB Sam Darnold
2 Bills QB Josh Rosen
3 Jets QB Baker Mayfield
4 Browns EDGE Bradley Chubb
5 Broncos RB Saquon Barkley
6 Colts OL Quenton Nelson
7 Cardinals QB Josh Allen
8 Bears LB Tremaine Edmunds
9 Ravens LB Roquan Smith
10 Raiders DB Minkah Fitzpatrick
11 Dolphins QB Lamar Jackson
12 Giants EDGE Harold Landry
13 Redskin DL Vita Vea
14 Packers DB Denzel Ward
15 Buccaneers DB Derwin James
16 49ers OL Isaiah Wynn
17 Chargers OL Mike McGlinchey
18 Seahawks OL Connor Williams
19 Cowboys WR Courtland Sutton
20 Titans EDGE Marcus Davenport
21 Bengals OL James Daniels
22 Giants OL Billy Price
23 Patriots QB Mason Rudolph
24 Giants RB Derrius Guice
25 Lions DL Taven Bryan
26 Falcons DL Da'Ron Payne
27 Saints WR Calvin Ridley
28 Steelers LB Rashaan Evans
29 Jaguars LB Leighton Vander Esch
30 Vikings OL Will Hernandez
31 Browns OL Kolton Miller
32 Eagles TE Dallas Goedert

 

For my purposes, I prefer Bryan at 25 because if the titans stay there they may take him and i get 4/5 points that way.  

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On 4/16/2018 at 9:14 AM, IDOG_det said:

Obviously they could improve, but they could improve at literally every position so that argument doesn't make sense.

This argument doesn't make any sense...the lions have 0 players that have proven worth starting.  If the board falls in such a way that a te is near the top of their bpa he should 100% be an option. Now I wouldn't reach for one, which is part of the reason for the trade back (only having 6 picks being the biggest reason), but I've seen the two I had going in the first at similar picks in pro-mocks so I wouldn't call it a reach. Especially in a division that's defending champ has shown some difficulty covering elite tes (imo). 

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On 4/17/2018 at 10:35 AM, Heavydan85 said:

Editing now, changed the Lions to Bryan, Bengals to Daniels, Jags get LVE, browns trade up with pats for 30 instead of bears/trading up with jags (still take Miller, but only costs 33 and 175)...

Pick Team Position Player
1 Browns QB Sam Darnold
2 Bills QB Josh Rosen
3 Jets QB Baker Mayfield
4 Browns EDGE Bradley Chubb
5 Broncos RB Saquon Barkley
6 Colts OL Quenton Nelson
7 Cardinals QB Josh Allen
8 Bears LB Tremaine Edmunds
9 Ravens LB Roquan Smith
10 Raiders DB Minkah Fitzpatrick
11 Dolphins QB Lamar Jackson
12 Giants EDGE Harold Landry
13 Redskin DL Vita Vea
14 Packers DB Denzel Ward
15 Buccaneers DB Derwin James
16 49ers OL Isaiah Wynn
17 Chargers OL Mike McGlinchey
18 Seahawks OL Connor Williams
19 Cowboys WR Courtland Sutton
20 Titans EDGE Marcus Davenport
21 Bengals OL James Daniels
22 Giants OL Billy Price
23 Patriots QB Mason Rudolph
24 Giants RB Derrius Guice
25 Lions DL Taven Bryan
26 Falcons DL Da'Ron Payne
27 Saints WR Calvin Ridley
28 Steelers LB Rashaan Evans
29 Jaguars LB Leighton Vander Esch
30 Vikings OL Will Hernandez
31 Browns OL Kolton Miller
32 Eagles TE Dallas Goedert

 

For my purposes, I prefer Bryan at 25 because if the titans stay there they may take him and i get 4/5 points that way.  

I see your perspective, but I don't think the Lions would trade out of 20 if there is a pass rusher worth the pick available. The lack of a pass rush (okay, inability to stop the run and cover TEs had something to do with it too) got a coaching staff fired. I have Da'Ron Payne ranked higher than Bryan, but I could see Bryan in a trade down situation. I just don't think a trade down in the 1st round is going to happen. So, just flip them back up to 20 and keep Davenport as the pick that you already have there, and we're all good. Easy peasy.

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2 hours ago, Myth said:

I see your perspective, but I don't think the Lions would trade out of 20 if there is a pass rusher worth the pick available. The lack of a pass rush (okay, inability to stop the run and cover TEs had something to do with it too) got a coaching staff fired. I have Da'Ron Payne ranked higher than Bryan, but I could see Bryan in a trade down situation. I just don't think a trade down in the 1st round is going to happen. So, just flip them back up to 20 and keep Davenport as the pick that you already have there, and we're all good. Easy peasy.

I fully expect the Lions to trade back in either the first or second...6 picks just isn't enough for a new coach, who I'd assume is looking to add more 3-4 looks to the d (I like Bryan because he can be a 3-4 de potentially and 4-3 dt)

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