3rivers Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 @warfelg do you think Hargrave will be decent or is he a wasted pick? I can only see him decent in an aggressive front. and vs the run he just gets run over too often. No Joel Steed or Hampton vs the run but Settle could be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 He's already better than decent. Too many fans are burying guys for doing their job. We're no longer a 2 gap front. We're an attacking 1-gap 3-4 team and Hargrave is doing what's needed in that scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, warfelg said: He's already better than decent. Too many fans are burying guys for doing their job. We're no longer a 2 gap front. We're an attacking 1-gap 3-4 team and Hargrave is doing what's needed in that scheme. True but that scheme is doomed to fail. It simply doesn't work. Teams can run at will. Give me the old Patty Cake and rushing OLBs style. They are close to having a dominant traditional 3-4. They have the DEs and the appear to have the Rush OLB. The 3-4 NT can be found THIS year in the Mid Rds. The ILB can be found THIS year in Rd 1. Then bring Hargrave in for the Hybrid fronts. I know it won't happen but I can dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Chieferific said: True but that scheme is doomed to fail. It simply doesn't work. Teams can run at will. Give me the old Patty Cake and rushing OLBs style. They are close to having a dominant traditional 3-4. They have the DEs and the appear to have the Rush OLB. The 3-4 NT can be found THIS year in the Mid Rds. The ILB can be found THIS year in Rd 1. Then bring Hargrave in for the Hybrid fronts. I know it won't happen but I can dream. Well, it's proven to work in the NFL. The issue isn't scheme. It's play calling, LB/S talent, OLB talent. It's a very similar style to what Wade Phillips uses. He consistently churns out top defenses. It's what Houston has done for a while now. They have been a long running top defense. When the Patriots are in 3-4 it's what they do. It's worked for them. Rex Ryan does a one gap scheme and consistently had top defenses. It does work. The scheme isn't doomed to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 minute ago, warfelg said: Well, it's proven to work in the NFL. The issue isn't scheme. It's play calling, LB/S talent, OLB talent. It's a very similar style to what Wade Phillips uses. He consistently churns out top defenses. It's what Houston has done for a while now. They have been a long running top defense. When the Patriots are in 3-4 it's what they do. It's worked for them. Rex Ryan does a one gap scheme and consistently had top defenses. It does work. The scheme isn't doomed to fail. I don't like it. It is not effective VS the Run imo. When that NT penetrates it open up lanes. Denver and Houston were effective because of the Pass Rush produced mainly by Watt and Miller. The year Denver won the SB they were not stout VS the Run nor wasHouston or Dallas under Phillips. It is a Pass Defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armsteeld2 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, Chieferific said: I don't like it. It is not effective VS the Run imo. When that NT penetrates it open up lanes. Denver and Houston were effective because of the Pass Rush produced mainly by Watt and Miller. The year Denver won the SB they were not stout VS the Run nor wasHouston or Dallas under Phillips. It is a Pass Defense. I disagree. Malik Jackson and Derrick Wolf were very disruptive in the middle of that defense. They also had some big run stuffers. That defense was solid overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 11 minutes ago, Armsteeld2 said: I disagree. Malik Jackson and Derrick Wolf were very disruptive in the middle of that defense. They also had some big run stuffers. That defense was solid overall. Without looking at the numbers, I recall a lot of teams gashing them on the ground. Maybe I'm mistaken but that's how I've viewed Wade's Defenses. Aggressive against the Pass. Porous against the Run. I don't see how it can be debated that when the NT penetrates it opens up lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armsteeld2 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Chieferific said: Without looking at the numbers, I recall a lot of teams gashing them on the ground. Maybe I'm mistaken but that's how I've viewed Wade's Defenses. Aggressive against the Pass. Porous against the Run. Here’s the stats..... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2015.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Just now, Armsteeld2 said: Here’s the stats..... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2015.htm Ok, so in approximately half their games the opponent ran for over a hundred yards. I know you've been around along enough to remember when the Steelers would go a season w/o letting that happen. The attacking style 3-4 has it's place. It is not an every down scheme. You have to have beef at NT or else you need some extraordinary ILBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armsteeld2 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Chieferific said: Ok, so in approximately half their games the opponent ran for over a hundred yards. I know you've been around along enough to remember when the Steelers would go a season w/o letting that happen. The attacking style 3-4 has it's place. It is not an every down scheme. You have to have beef at NT or else you need some extraordinary ILBs. The old 100 yard thing seems nice but teams weren’t scoring much on that defense. Yeah the Steelers defense sold out to stop the run but were vulnerable to the pass. When teams can’t pass on you, they try to run on you. That Broncos’ defense was damn near legendary that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chieferific Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Armsteeld2 said: The old 100 yard thing seems nice but teams weren’t scoring much on that defense. Yeah the Steelers defense sold out to stop the run but were vulnerable to the pass. When teams can’t pass on you, they try to run on you. That Broncos’ defense was damn near legendary that year. Can you see why when the DEs and NT push up that leaves gaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustPlainNasty Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Settle has a lot of hustle and is young. I worry a little about his weight but hes very good value at that point. Lets just say hes a far better prospect than that NT everybody liked from Baylor when we took Hargrave. Im not a fan of the Western Mich OT. I don't even like the value at this point and would prefer to pass. Pettis is extremely undervalued here. 3rd round likely, return ability is exciting. Chad Thomas also very undervalued here, he is more productive than R. Green. Both he and D. Hand seem to be running below everybody's radars. Have liked Townsend for a few years, he or Dickson here would be good picks. I see no reason why Berry shouldnt be seriously challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus-Viktor Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 21 hours ago, warfelg said: He's already better than decent. Too many fans are burying guys for doing their job. We're no longer a 2 gap front. We're an attacking 1-gap 3-4 team and Hargrave is doing what's needed in that scheme. I personally think our DL is really good already. I like Hargrave. He's not dominant, but as you said, the scheme has shifted, as it should have. Get after the QB. That's more important than just occupying blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler Hitman Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Pretty solid draft. First three picks are awesome. My only criticism is there is no safety help. We need some depth and new blood there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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