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7 hours ago, Forge said:

I think it's close. Hart's probably been a little better overall, and is further along in his development maybe given the age difference, but I don't think that the difference between them is "Carter Hart, franchise goaltender" and "Mackenzie Blackwood, the Devils have goaltender issues". They were also similarly viewed prospects, to be honest. The only black mark that Mac has is that horrific showing two years ago in the AHL (I mean, the dude got shipped to the ECHL at ont point lol).  I think some people just wrote him off after that and thought that he was not going to be very good. Hart has never really had that implosion, and optically I think that matters. 

I think he's really good. He's not quite consistent enough, and I will admit, his puck control / rebound situation is pretty ugly at times, but he's good. Right now he's a platoon 1a/b without a platoon partner, but at some point down the line, I think he'll be a 55-60 solo 1a type. Goalies are a weird bunch to figure out too. Their growth is seldom linear, and consistency can be all over the map. 

 

Sorry but I don't really think this is true.  Carter Hart had one of the best junior careers for a goalie in history.  

Last 3 years of juniors Blackwood was .902/.906/.921 and Hart was .918/.927/.947.  His last season he had a 1.60 GAA.  Hart has been pretty much a consensus top 5 G prospect since his draft year whereas Blackwood really wasn't considered a top prospect as far as I know.  You guys would know more than me but he kind of came out of nowhere right?

I know their stats are pretty similar, but what Hart is doing at 21 is pretty ridiculous and the ~20 months Blackwood has on him is pretty substantial especially when talking about goalies.  All that being said it isn't like Blackwood is old, he's putting up really good numbers as a 23 year old so I'm not knocking him, I just think you're underselling Hart a little bit.  

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2 hours ago, flyers0909 said:

Sorry but I don't really think this is true.  Carter Hart had one of the best junior careers for a goalie in history.  

Last 3 years of juniors Blackwood was .902/.906/.921 and Hart was .918/.927/.947.  His last season he had a 1.60 GAA.  Hart has been pretty much a consensus top 5 G prospect since his draft year whereas Blackwood really wasn't considered a top prospect as far as I know.  You guys would know more than me but he kind of came out of nowhere right?

I know their stats are pretty similar, but what Hart is doing at 21 is pretty ridiculous and the ~20 months Blackwood has on him is pretty substantial especially when talking about goalies.  All that being said it isn't like Blackwood is old, he's putting up really good numbers as a 23 year old so I'm not knocking him, I just think you're underselling Hart a little bit.  

Blackwood was the #1 rated NA goalie in the 2015 NHL draft and #2 overall (some places samsonov higher). Hart was widely viewed as the top NA goalie in 2016 (though central scouting actually had him as the #2 rated goalie in NA). FC liked Hart more his draft year (#45 for Hart his draft year, #59 for Mac), but Bob McKenzie had Blackwood rated higher (#35 to #57). Mac also was drafted slightly higher his draft year than Hart was in his, though again, they were in very similar areas (both were picked in the 40s).

Blackwood was always considered one of the Devils' top prospects, but he had that horrific year in the AHL for whatever reason (like, it was horrific...there are no words for how bad it was) that made a lot of people write him off. Hart has obviously never failed like that. But yeah, as prospects (I should have specified that I was speaking with regards to when they were draft prospects, not the years the followed), they were viewed in a very similar range for their draft years, though the biggest thing for Hart wasn't his play, admittedly, but rather his size as he is considered small. 

It's also very difficult to compare the stats against the different CHL leagues. Hart played in the WHL, which is noted as being a far more defensive league than either the Q or the OHL (where Mac played). Not to take anything away from Hart's career in the WHL.

The age is a big thing right now, which is why I get why they are viewed differently as prospects. Hart was young for his draft year, Mac was old. And obviously now they are both in the NHL, Hart is nearly 2 years younger and playing better. So I get why he's viewed better. I think what beekay was mostly wondering is why Hart is considered that type of player / prospect across NHL circles when Mac is not. I don't think it's so much to diminish Hart, but rather wanting to know why Mac isn't viewed at least somewhat similarly. 

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5 minutes ago, Forge said:

Blackwood was the #1 rated NA goalie in the 2015 NHL draft and #2 overall (some places samsonov higher). Hart was widely viewed as the top NA goalie in 2016 (though central scouting actually had him as the #2 rated goalie in NA). FC liked Hart more his draft year (#45 for Hart his draft year, #59 for Mac), but Bob McKenzie had Blackwood rated higher (#35 to #57). Mac also was drafted slightly higher his draft year than Hart was in his, though again, they were in very similar areas (both were picked in the 40s).

Blackwood was always considered one of the Devils' top prospects, but he had that horrific year in the AHL for whatever reason (like, it was horrific...there are no words for how bad it was) that made a lot of people write him off. Hart has obviously never failed like that. But yeah, as prospects (I should have specified that I was speaking with regards to when they were draft prospects, not the years the followed), they were viewed in a very similar range for their draft years, though the biggest thing for Hart wasn't his play, admittedly, but rather his size as he is considered small. 

It's also very difficult to compare the stats against the different CHL leagues. Hart played in the WHL, which is noted as being a far more defensive league than either the Q or the OHL (where Mac played). Not to take anything away from Hart's career in the WHL.

The age is a big thing right now, which is why I get why they are viewed differently as prospects. Hart was young for his draft year, Mac was old. And obviously now they are both in the NHL, Hart is nearly 2 years younger and playing better. So I get why he's viewed better. I think what beekay was mostly wondering is why Hart is considered that type of player / prospect across NHL circles when Mac is not. I don't think it's so much to diminish Hart, but rather wanting to know why Mac isn't viewed at least somewhat similarly. 

Ah that makes sense, yeah Hart was considered a good goalie his draft year but not at all a franchise type goalie, and yep you're right, mostly due to size. 

I think the reason Hart gets the talk is because it's so rare for a 20 year old goalie to step into the NHL and look like he belongs (.917 in ~25 games).  Naturally the comparisons go directly to Carey Price and add on to that the goalie graveyard that is Philly, he's going to get a lot of buzz around him.  

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43 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Don't you even dare

You know, I'll give him a little credit. He hasn't irritated me much. A few hynes like things here and there with lines, but that's it. And clearly the team is playing better. 

Definitely not a guy I'd want to be our coach right now,  but with a little seasoning down the line, I think he could be a head coach for someone

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55 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

We're gonna end up picking closer to 10 than 1. Just watch.

I'm thinking around 8, but yeah, I get that feeling as well. 

If we land: 

  • Holtz
  • Raymond
  • Drysdale
  • Lafreniere
  • Stutzle
  • Byfield

I think I'd kind of be happy with a guy like lundell, but I don't love him. He's going to be a solid pro, but not a great one, I think. I could see him basically be what Nico is right now without any further progression, but nothing beyond that. Which is still a damn fine player. Solid 50 point 2-way middle six. But the dude played a full season of liiga in his minus one draft year. That's damn impressive. So I could be wrong.

But that basically gives me a seven man wish list where I will be happy. 

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3 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm thinking around 8, but yeah, I get that feeling as well. 

If we land: 

  • Holtz
  • Raymond
  • Drysdale
  • Lafreniere
  • Stutzle
  • Byfield

I think I'd kind of be happy with a guy like lundell, but I don't love him. He's going to be a solid pro, but not a great one, I think. I could see him basically be what Nico is right now without any further progression, but nothing beyond that. Which is still a damn fine player. Solid 50 point 2-way middle six. But the dude played a full season of liiga in his minus one draft year. That's damn impressive. So I could be wrong.

But that basically gives me a seven man wish list where I will be happy. 

I just want to stay in the top 8 so we can land at least one those. The fall of at around 9 is pretty drastic IMO. That obviously doesn't include Askarov though. Lafreniere, Byfield, Drysdale, Stutzle, Holtz, Raymond, Perfetti and Lundell are the clear cut top 8 IMO. If we did fall to 9 or 10, we'd need someone to take Askarov top 10 and maybe even Rossi or Holloway. 

I really want these guys to gain some confidence and play well together but I also don't want to play well enough that this season was a pure waste and end up drafting someone like Holloway or Barron because we played too well down the stretch. 

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It hurts knowing we took Damon Severson 60th overall in 2012 and Colton Parayko went 26 picks later. :(

EDIT - lol Jaccob Slavin went 60 picks after Severson.

EDIT #2 - Looking at 2011 now. Nikita Kucherov went 58th. We got Blake Coleman 17 picks later. Boy, did we get bent there lol. Johnny Hockey went 5 picks after we took Reid Boucher lol. Tampa did pretty well that draft. Got Namestnikov at 27, Kucherov at 58 and Palat at 208. 

Edited by beekay414
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Lou's last 10 drafts...this...this is why we suck. Shero was handed literal poop in a bag and has made what he's made out of it. Crazy.

2005
1.23 - Nicklas Bergfors
2.38 - Jeff Frazee
3.84 - Mark Fraser
4.99 - Patrick Davis
5.155 - Mark Fayne
6.170 - Sean Zimmerman
7.218 - Alexander Sundstrom

2006 
1.30 - Matt Corrente
2.58 - Alexander Vasyunov
3.67 - Kirill Tulupov
3.77 - Vladimir Zharkov
4.107 - Tyler Miller
5.148 - Olivier Magnan
6.178 - Tony Romano
7.208 - Kyell Henegan

2007
2.57 - Mike Hoeffel
3.79 - Nick Palmieri
3.87 - Corbin McPherson
4.117 - Matt Halischuk
6.177 - Vili Sopanen
7.207 - Ryan Molle

2008
1.24 - Mattias Tedenby
2.52 - Brandon Burlon
2.54 - Patrice Cormier
3.82 - Adam Henrique
4.112 - Matt Delahey
5.142 - Kory Nagy
6.172 - David Wohlberg
7.202 - Harry Young
7.205 - Jean-Sebastien Berube

2009 
1.20 - Jacob Josefson
2.54 - Eric Gelinas
3.73 - Alexander Urbom
4.114 - Seth Helgeson
5.144 - Derek Rodwell
6.174 - Ashton Bernard
7.204 - Curtis Gedig

2010
2.38 - Jon Merrill
3.84 - Scott Wedgewood
4.114 - Joe Faust
6.174 - Maxime Clermont
7.204 - Mauro Jorg

2011
1.4 - Adam Larsson
3.75 - Blake Coleman
4.99 - Reid Boucher
5.129 - Blake Pietila
6.159 - Reece Scarlett
7.189 - Patrick Daly

2012
1.29 - Stefan Matteau
2.60 - Damon Severson
3.90 - Ben Johnson
4.96 - Ben Thomson
5.135 - Graham Black
5.150 - Alexander Kerfoot (didn't sign)
6.180 - Artur Gavrus

2013 
(traded 1st for Schneider)
2.42 - Steven Santini
3.73 - Ryan Kujawinksi
4.100 - Miles Wood
6.160 - Myles Bell
7.208 - Anthony Brodeur

2014
1.30 - John Quenneville
2.41 - Joshua Jacobs
3.71 - Connor Chatham
5.131 - Ryan Rehill
6.152 - JD Dudek
6.161 - Brandon Baddock

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From 10 drafts, the notable players are...

Adam Henrique
Mark Fayne
Jon Merrill
Adam Larsson
Blake Coleman
Damon Severson
Miles Wood

That. Is. Effing. Brutal.

You could add Bergfors and Cormier as "notable" because they got us Kovalchuk but, god. I love what Lou did for us, but he also killed a decade of Devils hockey by keeping an inept scouting staff around and trying to draft an archaic style of hockey players when the entire game was changing. He flat out ****ed us before he dipped for Toronto.

We didn't get a single NHLer out of two straight drafts (2006 and 2007), got a marginal one in Fayne in 2005, Henrique is legit obviously (2008), got nothing out of 2009, Merrill came out of 2010 and his good hockey wasn't even with us,  2011 was great by our standards lol, 2012 is literally only Severson, we got a 4th liner who drives you friggin' nuts out of 2013 and we've gotten nothing out of 2014 so far with Jacobs looking like an AHLer for his career.

We got nothing out of 4 drafts at all. 40% of Lou's last 10 drafts gave us not one single NHLer. It's sad when, in a decade of drafting, your most notable pick is a dude that scored 50 points one time. A 2nd line C (Henrique), two 3rd line defensemen (Fayne, Merrill), two 2nd line defensemen (Larsson, Severson), and two bottom sixers (Coleman, Wood). IN A DECADE OF DRAFTING. That is flat out inexcusable. 

Can you imagine where we'd be if Shero didn't fleece GMs for Hall, Palmieri and Vatanen?

Edited by beekay414
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The ineptitude in drafting during the end of Lou's time here is amazing. LIke, you'd think that over the course of a decade, you would accidentally get a first round pick right, or something. After year 5 or so of doing that, don't you just get your scouts recommendation and then choose anyone but that person?

When Shero took over here, this was a team that had cupboards that were completely barren. They were empty. Shero has done a reasonable job of restocking the shelves with talent as much as possible at this point. We were a bad team with a bad farm system, which is super difficult to do. 

The thing that is truly amazing though is that Lou somehow got not one, but two jobs after the performance over his last decade or so. Thats amazing. 

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