Does the NFL really need a draft?

[Mox]

People who whine about the lack of freedom in the NFL because of the draft are the probably the same people who whine about everything else that isn't there right. You don't have to play football if you don't want to. You want to make millions? Comply with the rules as they are.

[youngosu]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

If you were a great prospect, who would you rather play for, the Patriots, or one of the other AFC North teams?  All other things being equal, it wouldn't be much of a decision for me.  I'll take the winning team every single time.  If you are a great college wide receiver, would you choose a team with a good quarterback or a team with a lousy one?

The NBA does have a draft, but where things have gone downhill in that league is with the older superstars like LeBron James and Kevin Durant creating their own rosters.  I'll say it again: unless your team has several players of that caliber, what is the point of even watching?  I'm in Minnesota.  Does anyone really believe the Timberwolves have a chance to win a championship in the next 3-4 years?  I sure don't.

The NBA has always been a league of dynasties because the rosters are tiny, nothing about than NBA is any different now. The Lakers and Celtics won 7/10 titles in the 50's, the Celtics won 9/10 titles in the 60's the Lakers and Celtics won 8/10 titles in the 80's, the Bulls and Rockets won 8/10 titles in the 90's, the Lakers and Spurs won 8/10 titles in the 00's. The only decade that saw any parity in the NBA was the 70's. In truth the current decade has the most variety of champions since the 70's in the NBA (6 different teams have won titles since 2010)

That said, the NFL would never be like that. It just wouldn't for all kinds of reasons that go far beyond the draft. 

As for your statement about the NFL, I'd go to the Patriots if they offered the most money but if the Browns offered more I'd probably go to the Browns. All things being equal I wouldn't go to either since I wouldn't want to live in Cleveland or a suburb of Boston. I'd much rather play for Miami or New York within their own division, both are cities I'd prefer to live in. You assume all players think alike and even if they did, the Patriots wouldn't have the money to sign everyone unless everyone decides to sign for a minimum salary which simply isn't realistic. 

As you your WR example; Why should a great wide receiver have their professional career and potential career earnings diminished because some team with a lousy QB decides to force them to work there? Would you want your earnings limited by bad co-workers without any recourse? I know I wouldn't. 

[youngosu]

13 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

People who whine about the lack of freedom in the NFL because of the draft are the probably the same people who whine about everything else that isn't there right. You don't have to play football if you don't want to. You want to make millions? Comply with the rules as they are.

You sound like the same people that probably hated Curt Flood when he sued MLB. After all, Flood didn't have to play baseball if he didn't want too, he should have just accepted that he had no rights as an employee right?

Bring back the reserve system!!!!! 

 

[Uncle Buck]

3 minutes ago, youngosu said:

The NBA has always been a league of dynasties because the rosters are tiny, nothing about than NBA is any different now. The Lakers and Celtics won 7/10 titles in the 50's, the Celtics won 9/10 titles in the 60's the Lakers and Celtics won 8/10 titles in the 80's, the Bulls and Rockets won 8/10 titles in the 90's, the Lakers and Spurs won 8/10 titles in the 00's. The only decade that saw any parity in the NBA was the 70's. In truth the current decade has the most variety of champions since the 70's in the NBA (6 different teams have won titles since 2010)

That said, the NFL would never be like that. It just wouldn't for all kinds of reasons that go far beyond the draft. 

As for your statement about the NFL, I'd go to the Patriots if they offered the most money but if the Browns offered more I'd probably go to the Browns. All things being equal I wouldn't go to either since I wouldn't want to live in Cleveland or a suburb of Boston. I'd much rather play for Miami or New York within their own division, both are cities I'd prefer to live in. You assume all players think alike and even if they did, the Patriots wouldn't have the money to sign everyone unless everyone decides to sign for a minimum salary which simply isn't realistic. 

As you your WR example; Why should a great wide receiver have their professional career and potential career earnings diminished because some team with a lousy QB decides to force them to work there? Would you want your earnings limited by bad co-workers without any recourse? I know I wouldn't. 

You make some good points, but I guess I just prefer watching a chess match between owners rather than players getting together and playing with who they want to play for.  Players are employees.  While they certainly deserve to be treated well and have certain rights, I think it is the owners who have earned the right to be the decision makers.

[Mox]

2 minutes ago, youngosu said:

You sound like the same people that probably hated Curt Flood when he sued MLB. After all, Flood didn't have to play baseball if he didn't want too, he should have just accepted that he had no rights as an employee right?

Bring back the reserve system!!!!! 

 

I don't care about your opinion, your whining or you trying to put words in my mouth.

[youngosu]

Just now, Uncle Buck said:

 While they certainly deserve to be treated well and have certain rights, I think it is the owners who have earned the right to be the decision makers.

Why? Because they happened to be rich enough to purchase a team or their dad was rich enough to buy a team and they inherited it? 

[youngosu]

Just now, Bullet Club said:

I don't care about your opinion, your whining or you trying to put words in my mouth.

Guess what, I don't care about your opinion either. At least I am presenting an actual argument instead of simply calling people whiners because you don't think athletes deserve the same freedom you have in your job. 

[Uncle Buck]

1 minute ago, youngosu said:

Why? Because they happened to be rich enough to purchase a team or their dad was rich enough to buy a team and they inherited it? 

Because it is just my preference.  I think it adds another dimension to things and creates deeper, more thought-provoking system.  Also, I have worked hard during my life and I respect those who have done the same and become successful.  Contrary to the opinion of some, not all wealthy people become that way just because they are lucky or privileged.  Most of the owners in the league are guys who built a huge business on their own outside of football, and I believe they learned a thing or two along the way.

[youngosu]

12 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

Because it is just my preference.  I think it adds another dimension to things and creates deeper, more thought-provoking system.  Also, I have worked hard during my life and I respect those who have done the same and become successful.  Contrary to the opinion of some, not all wealthy people become that way just because they are lucky or privileged.  Most of the owners in the league are guys who built a huge business on their own outside of football, and I believe they learned a thing or two along the way.

I never said they didn't work hard, I still don't think being a successful car salesman, internet guy, or real estate broker makes them qualified to run football teams. 

I enjoy the draft too. Frankly from a fan perspective I'd love a league where players are only allowed to leave if the owners decide they don't wan them anymore. From a fan's perspective that is ideal. But I separate what I want as a fan from what I think is right. 

I know several people who have (or still) play in the NFL from star QB's to guys that just held onto practice squad spots for a few years and every thing in between. And I want those people I personally know to have the best experience possible for their choice to destroy their bodies for my amusement. I am not saying they all had bad experiences due to the draft but I do know a one that believes he ended up in a pretty bad situation thanks to the draft and he would have taken another option had it been possible. He truly believes his career (and potential earnings) was shortened because he had to play on the lousy astroturf at Veterans Stadium because the Eagles drafted him. He may be wrong but if he is right the draft literally hurt his pocketbook and that is just wrong.

[Uncle Buck]

19 minutes ago, youngosu said:

I never said they didn't work hard, I still don't think being a successful car salesman, internet guy, or real estate broker makes them qualified to run football teams. 

I enjoy the draft too. Frankly from a fan perspective I'd love a league where players are only allowed to leave if the owners decide they don't wan them anymore. From a fan's perspective that is ideal. But I separate what I want as a fan from what I think is right. 

I know several people who have (or still) play in the NFL from star QB's to guys that just held onto practice squad spots for a few years and every thing in between. And I want those people I personally know to have the best experience possible for their choice to destroy their bodies for my amusement. I am not saying they all had bad experiences due to the draft but I do know a one that believes he ended up in a pretty bad situation thanks to the draft and he would have taken another option had it been possible. He truly believes his career (and potential earnings) was shortened because he had to play on the lousy astroturf at Veterans Stadium because the Eagles drafted him. He may be wrong but if he is right the draft literally hurt his pocketbook and that is just wrong.

6

If that's the case, why should anyone have to play in Philadelphia then?

[youngosu]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

If that's the case, why should anyone have to play in Philadelphia then?

I agree. The NFLPA made similar arguments for most of the time that Veterans Stadium had Astroturf. The owners didn't seem to care enough to make the changes. 

There are some stadiums today with similar issues only due to having grass (Pittsburgh for instance), I wouldn't want to play on that slop in November. 

[Uncle Buck]

Just now, youngosu said:

I agree. The NFLPA made similar arguments for most of the time that Veterans Stadium had Astroturf. The owners didn't seem to care enough to make the changes. 

There are some stadiums today with similar issues only due to having grass (Pittsburgh for instance), I wouldn't want to play on that slop in November. 

I agree.  I saw a game being played in Pittsburgh when there were spots where players' feet were sinking into the ground down to their ankles.  It was horrible.

[INbengalfan]

In the, it wouldn't ever happen simply because it would have no support in any NFL circles.  The players anf the NFLPA would npt agree to it, as they have made it known publicly that they want to see veteran players, not rookies, make the big money.  Outside of Jones and a few other owners, a clear majority of owners would not support  a system involving bidding wars for unproven players.  And with the salary cap, teams would be left without a middle class of players, just the top players and the league minimum guys.

 

Fans of large market teams would possibly get behind this, but smaller market teams fans wouldn't.  And can you imagine the s4!t storm when a team like Dallas would havcvce had thre first overall pick, but lost out in the bidding process?

 

[youngosu]

12 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

In the, it wouldn't ever happen simply because it would have no support in any NFL circles.  The players anf the NFLPA would npt agree to it, as they have made it known publicly that they want to see veteran players, not rookies, make the big money.  Outside of Jones and a few other owners, a clear majority of owners would not support  a system involving bidding wars for unproven players.  And with the salary cap, teams would be left without a middle class of players, just the top players and the league minimum guys.

 

The NFL already has no middle class, that has already happened.

I agree it won't happen willingly but all it would likely take is 1 college player suing the NFLPA (not the NFL but the union) and the draft would be no more. And that player would win in court for the very reasons you just explained, both the owners and current union members are conspiring to limit the earning of non-union members. That is a loser in court if it ever got challenged. 

[DingoLadd]

15 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

the jags dont have 80 million year to year.  we have maybe 20 at most and most of that money is likely to be spent on extensions for Jalen Ramsey, Myles Jack, Yannick Ngakoue. probably would still need to cut a guy or something to make enough room. 

I just used you guys as an example, can't remember the year (Probably 2016 or 2017 offseason?) you guys had like 90 million in cap, obviously you've spent most of that since then but still my point stands. Bad teams with no core players would throw 10s of millions at rookies and be stuck with their contracts.