Why Josh Rosen Isn’t the Quarterback You Think He Is

[Ozzy]

32 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

 

This is the absolute worst kind mindless drivel.  Rosen being a top 50 tennis player at age 12, growing up in California, and having a surgeon as a dad somehow shows that he has less "overall work ethic and determination" than Allen because Allen grew up on a farm?  Give me a ******* break.  And what the hell is him talking about being Jewish and wanting to live in Los Angeles about?  Maybe you're construing that statement as him saying he wants to have movies made about him?  Furthermore, what about Sam Darnold?  Did he not grow up in a beach town in Southern California? Should we now dock him for having less "work ethic and determination" than Josh Allen?

Unless you know Josh Rosen personally or secretly work for an NFL team you have no idea what he's like as a person and neither does anyone else on here.  Is it safe to assume he's kind of a ****** given all the smoke around is personality issues?  Probably so.  But if you're going to use his personality issues as part of your argument state it that way instead of relying on complete stereotypes and generalizations.

Maybe I am wrong with Josh Rosen but it is my opinion on him, sure if I knew him more I would maybe have a different opinion about him but I am saying what I think when I watch him and listen to him.   I grew up on a farm and I am fully aware of the physical jobs I had to do.  I am also fully aware that I can physically out work other people who did not grow up on a farm doing the same physical job and have done so in many cases.  It is what one is exposed to, and if you have never been exposed to an awful hard job ones temperament might be a little different.    Football is a physical sport, working in the sun doing farm labor like putting irrigation pipes, in is not easy work  just like football, and that farm job is something Josh Allen said he did along with tons of other stuff I am sure.  

 

So yeah from my experience and just straight common sense, if one is curious who would work harder in a labor position, a child from a wealthy family or a farm kid, yeah I would say the farm kid.  Now maybe you do not care if your QB works hard and gives great effort, but I sure know teammates care.  

 

 

Sam Darnold is a completely different personality than Josh Rosen.  One can tell by how they talk, how they walk and their flat out body language.  Sam Darnold comes off as being the man in the huddle and the leader of the football team, no one really questions that for a reason.  When he speaks he backs that up as well and on the field he has backed it up with wins in big games.  Josh Rosen has not done that, does not come off like that and has not really won any really big games in college.  Thus yeah I do not question Darnold with what I question Rosen with.  

 

As for the Jewish comment, sure it is not everything but that comment to me was quite odd honestly so I thought I would include it.  And if that is indeed why he went to UCLA I find that different to say the least.  Yeah people said some were stereotyping Johnny Manziel when coming from a very wealthy family as well.     When reality is now, that was dead right and a very big issue to his personality.  Lucky for Rosen he does not have the frat boy persona Manziel had and probably not the partying issues either, so that is one plus for Rosen.  

 

 

 

Interview from ESPN the magazine

What are your football goals?
Josh Rosen "I want to be great -- in everything I do. As far as football, I always looked up to Kellen Moore of Boise State. I thought it was the coolest thing that he was the winningest QB of all time. I thought that was a cool word: winningest. So I want to be the winningest QB in NFL history. I want to win the most games and most championships. I'd say six titles, but if Tom Brady gets six, I'll say seven."

 

Yeah Rosen, do not say that when you never won s&*^&%t in college....  Thus back again to the upbringing and or personality issues potentially.  But maybe I am off base, but I do not think I am, will see.  Sam Bradford for example, I hated his body language and overall personality on the field and sidelines in college.  Sure he has had some success in the NFL but nothing great at all and his leadership is beyond questionable on the field and the sidelines.  Guys do not really seem to want to play for him and he does not interact with his teammates much, did get that vibe from Rosen in college more than once.  Different people sure, but same issues potentially, sure Bradford puts up decent numbers and maybe Rosen will but does it actually lead to wins and overall team success...oh and they both seem to get injured quite often and are not great throwing on the move.  

[mission27]

23 hours ago, TheVillain112 said:

The USC game later in the season however I was impressed with.  Thought he outplayed Darnold handily, and he was in rhythm all night and made some great throws from the pocket.

Mostly what I'm going off of as well, also think he has a very good attitude.  I'm a pretty big Rosen fan.  

[mission27]

32 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Josh Rosen "I want to be great -- in everything I do. As far as football, I always looked up to Kellen Moore of Boise State. I thought it was the coolest thing that he was the winningest QB of all time. I thought that was a cool word: winningest. So I want to be the winningest QB in NFL history. I want to win the most games and most championships. I'd say six titles, but if Tom Brady gets six, I'll say seven."

 

Yeah Rosen, do not say that when you never won s&*^&%t in college....  Thus back again to the upbringing and or personality issues potentially.  But maybe I am off base, but I do not think I am, will see.  Sam Bradford for example, I hated his body language and overall personality on the field and sidelines in college.  Sure he has had some success in the NFL but nothing great at all and his leadership is beyond questionable on the field and the sidelines.  Guys do not really seem to want to play for him and he does not interact with his teammates much, did get that vibe from Rosen in college more than once.  Different people sure, but same issues potentially, sure Bradford puts up decent numbers and maybe Rosen will but does it actually lead to wins and overall team success...oh and they both seem to get injured quite often and are not great throwing on the move.  

I don't see what's wrong with anything he said...?

The guy is clearly competitive, confident, and laser focused on winning.  Brady esque.

[Broncofan]

My main belief with Rosen stems from the observation that his strengths (accuracy,  anticipation, timing and placement) are the ones that translate best to NFL success.  

[mission27]

I think Rosen is exactly what teams would've looked for 5 years ago, the league has just kind of fallen in love with athletic QBs.  Being a really really good pocket QB is fine.  Not everyone has to be Carson Wentz or Deshaun Watson or Aaron Rodgers or Jimmy G.

[Dr LBC]

6 hours ago, bzane said:

This fine young Frat Boy bids fair to open the door to a Brave New World of NFL Football, where the sweat and the swearing and the violence and the Philistine values give way to Grace....Culture......New Thought..... Enlightenment........Entitlement (oops, he's already got that). 

The irony in this statement?  Darnold is the one who is actually in a fraternity.

[mission27]

Just now, The LBC said:

The irony in this statement?  Darnold is the one who is actually in a fraternity.

He also plays QB like he's a half a rack deep

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, mission27 said:

I don't see what's wrong with anything he said...?

The guy is clearly competitive, confident, and laser focused on winning.  Brady esque.

You clearly never watched Brady in college then.  He actually won games in college and they were big games against big time competition especially as a senior. Josh Rosen's best game arguably in his entire career was against USC on the road where he played well this year, but they still lost.  So if he is such a winner, then why did he not win at UCLA?  Why were recruits not falling over each other to come play with this glorious QB on UCLA?  

[mission27]

2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You clearly never watched Brady in college then.  He actually won games in college and they were big games against big time competition especially as a senior. Josh Rosen's best game arguably in his entire career was against USC on the road where he played well this year, but they still lost.  So if he is such a winner, then why did he not win at UCLA?  Why were recruits not falling over each other to come play with this glorious QB on UCLA?  

I'm aware Brady won in college, he was also playing for a big time program for one of the best coaches in the country and was surrounded by 5 star talent. 

Rosen played for the biggest joke of a program in D1, second class school in their own neighborhood, that should honestly just fold for a coach who is also a joke.  Lets be real. Its not his fault UCLA is pathetic.  They have always and will always be pathetic and should stick to basketball. 

Bottom line... no he's not Tom Brady... but there's nothing wrong with a guy being competitive.  In fact I'd go so far as to say anyone who isn't ultra competitive and confident has no business being drafted by an NFL team.

[Dr LBC]

42 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Maybe I am wrong with Josh Rosen but it is my opinion on him, sure if I knew him more I would maybe have a different opinion about him but I am saying what I think when I watch him and listen to him.   I grew up on a farm and I am fully aware of the physical jobs I had to do.  I am also fully aware that I can physically out work other people who did not grow up on a farm doing the same physical job and have done so in many cases.  It is what one is exposed to, and if you have never been exposed to an awful hard job ones temperament might be a little different.    Football is a physical sport, working in the sun doing farm labor like putting irrigation pipes, in is not easy work  just like football, and that farm job is something Josh Allen said he did along with tons of other stuff I am sure. 

You throw a lot of "might's" and "in many cases" around like they're superlatives.  It's something I've noticed a lot of folks didn't grow up in the suburbs or urban areas are fond of passing that judgment with regard to work ethic and willingness to put in the physical work about those that do.  Now I don't fault you for having formed that opinion from what you've had to inform you, but it's nonetheless relatively ignorant.  I've had the privilege of teaching a number of Division 1 athletes, including ones that played very physical sports and some of these kids have never even seen a farm in their lives, but no one has any business questioning their work ethic.

This country mouse passing judgment on the city mouse stuff isn't as based in tangible proof as country mouse folk want to believe it is.  Not sure if you're aware where Marin is in California but it's one of the most affluent communities in the state... that's where Brady's from.

As to Rosen, I genuinely believe that the reason teams may be souring on him a little has very little to do with this "sense of entitlement" or attitude narrative people are trying to sell (because it's controversial and does sell), but rather that he doesn't have the ceiling that the others have as he's pretty much maxed out; his biggest selling point has been his pro-readiness, high-floor at the expense of a lesser ceiling.

[mission27]

51 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

I grew up on a farm and I am fully aware of the physical jobs I had to do.  I am also fully aware that I can physically out work other people who did not grow up on a farm doing the same physical job and have done so in many cases.  It is what one is exposed to, and if you have never been exposed to an awful hard job ones temperament might be a little different.    Football is a physical sport, working in the sun doing farm labor like putting irrigation pipes, in is not easy work  just like football, and that farm job is something Josh Allen said he did along with tons of other stuff I am sure.  

Its clear you have some strong cultural biases here. 

Best QBs of the past 10 years... 

- Tom Brady who grew up in California, was well off, at most occasionally dabbled in farming

- Aaron Rodgers who grew up in California, was well off,  never worked on a farm 

- Peyton Manning who didn't grow up in California but is the kid of a millionaire celebrity, pretty confident he never worked on a farm 

- Drew Brees, son of two rich lawyers, never worked on a farm

Meanwhile there are millions of shmucks who worked on farms who have never won a super bowl MVP award.

[Chwf3rd25]

8 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You clearly never watched Brady in college then.  He actually won games in college and they were big games against big time competition especially as a senior. Josh Rosen's best game arguably in his entire career was against USC on the road where he played well this year, but they still lost.  So if he is such a winner, then why did he not win at UCLA?  Why were recruits not falling over each other to come play with this glorious QB on UCLA?  

I feel like you've never watched UCLA play over the last 3 seasons.  Rosen had decent talent around him his freshman year and played great and then the last two years he's had awful talent around him.  He got absolutely destroyed by his offensive line and took huge hits.  I specifically remember the Texas A&M game from 2016 where Rosen threw what should have been two straight game winning TDs which were both dropped.  That was routine for Rosen the last two years.  

Here are some of Rosen's performances in the biggest games of his UCLA career:

28/35, 351, 3/0 vs Virginia (his first game starting as a true freshman with tons of hype to live up to)

19/37, 227, 1/2 vs USC (his first game vs USC his freshman year)

26/40, 319, 3/2 vs Nebraska (did this in his bowl game as a true freshman starter)

32/52, 421, 3/1 vs USC (rival game with the pressure of facing his presumptive competition for the #1 pick where he was severely outmatched vs USC's defense)

Rosen's win %:  56%

Allen's win %: 64%

Not a huge difference.  I can show you how to do that math because I know you grew up on a farm so it's probably hard for you (it's ok to make stereotypes about where someone grew up right?).

[Ozzy]

2 minutes ago, mission27 said:

I'm aware Brady won in college, he was also playing for a big time program for one of the best coaches in the country and was surrounded by 5 star talent. 

Rosen played for the biggest joke of a program in D1, second class school in their own neighborhood, that should honestly just fold for a coach who is also a joke.  Lets be real. Its not his fault UCLA is pathetic.  They have always and will always be pathetic and should stick to basketball. 

Bottom line... no he's not Tom Brady... but there's nothing wrong with a guy being competitive.  In fact I'd go so far as to say anyone who isn't ultra competitive and confident has no business being drafted by an NFL team.

Rosen is 17-13 in college, so he has no freaking business saying I am going to be the winningest QB in NFL history and want to win the most games and have the most championships ever.  Sure being competitive is great, being competitive is not saying this.  That is not what being competitive is, how about you make the freaking NFL team first, earn the starting job first and win a freaking game before you say you want to be the winningest QB in NFL history.  Sure a lot of prospects dream big but for him to say it, well guess what you will not accomplish your goals then.  If he is such a smart guy why would he say this?  Sure other QBs have said similar things and big dreams, and guess what they all failed miserably if that was the standard.  

 

As for UCLA, before Rosen came they were a damn good football team and had a damn good defense and had a decent amount of success.  10-3 two years in a row in 2014 and 2013 and both years won their bowl game.  Ever think potentially certain prospects might have not wanted to go to UCLA just because of Rosen?  Who knows and sure is not all his fault but for being the #1 QB in high school, to call his college career a success well it obviously was not.  And to call him a winner, he obviously is not that either, oh but he will win more than any QB in the history of the NFL, right.  

 

 

 

1 minute ago, mission27 said:

Its clear you have some strong cultural biases here. 

Best QBs of the past 10 years... 

- Tom Brady who grew up in California, was well off, at most occasionally dabbled in farming

- Aaron Rodgers who grew up in California, was well off,  never worked on a farm 

- Peyton Manning who didn't grow up in California but is the kid of a millionaire celebrity, pretty confident he never worked on a farm 

- Drew Brees, son of two rich lawyers, never worked on a farm

Meanwhile there are millions of shmucks who worked on farms who have never won a super bowl MVP award.

Obviously!  That is not the point, what 2% if not less of Americans farm, so of course not many work or grow up on a farm, no one does especially now a days.  That was never my point, I was just saying comparing the two, specifically Josh Allen and Josh Rosen, guess who might be the harder physical worker of the two?  But yeah no **** Peyton Manning did not grow up on a freaking farm.  Oh yeah Tom Brady came and visited his grandparents farm every winter and summer, might be more than dabbled.   Oh sure that had no effect on him what so ever,  it was only "some of my greatest memories as a kid".  Bet his Grandparents work ethic had no effect on him what so ever.  

 

 

 

 

[mission27]

Just now, Ozzy said:

Rosen is 17-13 in college, so he has no freaking business saying I am going to be the winningest QB in NFL history and want to win the most games and have the most championships ever.  Sure being competitive is great, being competitive is not saying this.  That is not what being competitive is, how about you make the freaking NFL team first, earn the starting job first and win a freaking game before you say you want to be the winningest QB in NFL history.  Sure a lot of prospects dream big but for him to say it, well guess what you will not accomplish your goals then.  If he is such a smart guy why would he say this?  Sure other QBs have said similar things and big dreams, and guess what they all failed miserably if that was the standard.  

 

As for UCLA, before Rosen came they were a damn good football team and had a damn good defense and had a decent amount of success.  10-3 two years in a row in 2014 and 2013 and both years won their bowl game.  Ever think potentially certain prospects might have not wanted to go to UCLA just because of Rosen?  Who knows and sure is not all his fault but for being the #1 QB in high school, to call his college career a success well it obviously was not.  And to call him a winner, he obviously is not that either, oh but he will win more than any QB in the history of the NFL, right.  

 

 

 

Obviously!  That is not the point, what 2% if not less of Americans farm, so of course not many work or grow up on a farm, no one does especially now a days.  That was never my point, I was just saying comparing the two, specifically Josh Allen and Josh Rosen, guess who might be the harder physical worker of the two?  But yeah no **** Peyton Manning did not grow up on a freaking farm.  Oh yeah Tom Brady came and visited his grandparents farm every winter and summer, might be more than dabbled.   Oh sure that had no effect on him what so ever,  it was only "some of my greatest memories as a kid".  Bet his Grandparents work ethic had no effect on him what so ever.  

 

 

 

 

He didn't say he was going to be the winningest QB in NFL history, he said that was his goal.  That should be every QBs goal tbh.  

UCLA is a joke school end of story.  

And I know for a fact from mutual friends the Brady farm story was overplayed media hype, pretty sure his responsibilities didn't extend past milking a few cows. 

[Ozzy]

15 minutes ago, mission27 said:

He didn't say he was going to be the winningest QB in NFL history, he said that was his goal.  That should be every QBs goal tbh.  

UCLA is a joke school end of story.  

And I know for a fact from mutual friends the Brady farm story was overplayed media hype, pretty sure his responsibilities didn't extend past milking a few cows. 

No it should not be their goal I feel, your goal is to become the starter, then maybe win some games, get to the playoffs, get to a Pro bowl, then Win some playoff games and get to and win the Super Bowl if you are lucky.  Kind of hard to have the most Super Bowls ever in NFL history without winning just one.  Sure maybe can talk about it after your third Super bowl and even discuss it.  It is not competitive greatness to say that as a rookie I feel, good luck never reaching those Goals. 

 

And no one said he was responsible for running the entire farm, but last time I checked his eyes work and so does his brain.  Think he maybe picked up a few things, and sure was never put in the ringer as a grandson coming to visit, most Grandparents would not do that for obvious reasons.  But he sure liked it, or but no your inside sources say he is a flat out liar, ok sure.  

 

And if UCLA is such a joke school, then why did he go there?  Oh because he wanted to be a Jewish icon for Hollywood?  I have no idea.  All I know is how can be become this winner of all winners in the NFL if he cannot even win and lead in college.