Why Josh Rosen Isn’t the Quarterback You Think He Is

[Chwf3rd25]

2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

No it should not be their goal I feel, your goal is to become the starter, then maybe win some games, get to the playoffs, get to a Pro bowl, then Win some playoff games and get to and win the Super Bowl if you are lucky.  Kind of hard to have the most Super Bowls ever in NFL history without winning just one.  Sure maybe can talk about it after your third Super bowl and even discuss it.  It is not competitive greatness to say that as a rookie I feel, good luck never reaching those Goals. 

 

And no one said he was responsible for running the entire farm, but last time I checked his eyes work and so does his brain.  Think he maybe picked up a few things, and sure was never put in the ringer as a grandson coming to visit, most Grandparents would not do that for obvious reasons.  But he sure liked it, or but no your inside sources say he is a flat out liar, ok sure.  

 

And if UCLA is such a joke school, then why did he go there?  Oh because he wanted to be a Jewish icon for Hollywood?  I have no idea.  All I know is how can be become this winner of all winners in the NFL if he cannot even win and lead in college.  

[mission27]

4 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

No it should not be their goal I feel, your goal is to become the starter, then maybe win some games, get to the playoffs, get to a Pro bowl, then Win some playoff games and get to and win the Super Bowl if you are lucky.  Kind of hard to have the most Super Bowls ever in NFL history without winning just one.  Sure maybe can talk about it after your third Super bowl and even discuss it.  It is not competitive greatness to say that as a rookie I feel, good luck never reaching those Goals. 

"I'm the best decision this organization has ever made." - some 6th room pick who was obviously too big for his boots and should've spent more time on grandads farm

[vikestyle]

1 minute ago, mission27 said:

"I'm the best decision this organization has ever made." - some 6th room pick who was obviously too big for his boots and should've spent more time on grandads farm

Exactly. You want to draft a top 5 QB who is just happy to make it to the league. Jamarcus Russell set the very attainable goal of "get drafted, get paid", and that's why he's often talked about as one of the best draft picks ever as he achieved every single one of his goals. 

[Dr LBC]

It's actually been the consensus among most Head Coaches and Player Personnel execs that the best response a player can give in the interview room when asked what his goals are is "to help my team win the Super Bowl."

[vikestyle]

21 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

No it should not be their goal I feel, your goal is to become the starter, then maybe win some games, get to the playoffs, get to a Pro bowl, then Win some playoff games and get to and win the Super Bowl if you are lucky.  Kind of hard to have the most Super Bowls ever in NFL history without winning just one.  Sure maybe can talk about it after your third Super bowl and even discuss it.  It is not competitive greatness to say that as a rookie I feel, good luck never reaching those Goals. 

 

This has to be a joke, right? Literally every time a great competitor is discussed they talk about how hungry they are and how they want to be remembered as the best of all time. I have never heard "this guy is great because he's content right where he's at". You keep talking about work ethic, but then you are somehow trying to say that him wanting to win is a negative? It makes no sense. It's fine to not like Rosen as a prospect, but the things you're saying right now are ridiculous.

                             

[mission27]

20 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

This has to be a joke, right? Literally every time a great competitor is discussed they talk about how hungry they are and how they want to be remembered as the best of all time. I have never heard "this guy is great because he's content right where he's at". You keep talking about work ethic, but then you are somehow trying to say that him wanting to win is a negative? It makes no sense. It's fine to not like Rosen as a prospect, but the things you're saying right now are ridiculous.

                             

Seriously.  Since when is "I want to compete and be the best and help my team win as much as possible" a bad thing to say?

[Ozzy]

18 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

This has to be a joke, right? Literally every time a great competitor is discussed they talk about how hungry they are and how they want to be remembered as the best of all time. I have never heard "this guy is great because he's content right where he's at". You keep talking about work ethic, but then you are somehow trying to say that him wanting to win is a negative? It makes no sense. It's fine to not like Rosen as a prospect, but the things you're saying right now are ridiculous.

                             

Saying "I'm the best decision this organization has ever made." and saying I will be the winningest QB in the history of the NFL are two completely different things.  If you view those two comments as the exact same I do not know what else to say.  And it is funny how everyone is just like yeah, you go Josh Rosen for saying what he did about winning when the kid was a flat out loser in college and had a sub par record at best.  Yet will lead NFL men even though he could not lead college kids, how exactly is that going to happen all of a sudden? 

 

Oh but he said it so it will happen because he is a competitive beast of all beasts.  Sorry watch him play, doubt any would comment on his great competitive prowess.  Josh Rosen is so competitive and passionate teammates cannot wait to play with him and for him, sure pretend that is the case all you want.  

 

If you think competitiveness is all about talking before you get drafted, and has nothing to do with actions then go ahead and believe it.  I would rather want a player prove himself with actions and performance rather than talking and brag himself to be the best to ever play the position before he has ever played a snap.  Sure athletes talk about being a great player but talk is cheap, actions and doing the small things are far more important to reaching your end goal.  

 

Go ahead, draft him for his amazing competitive greatness he never showed throughout his entire college career.  But no he has it in spades right.  

 

 

[Chwf3rd25]

1 minute ago, Ozzy said:

Saying "I'm the best decision this organization has ever made." and saying I will be the winningest QB in the history of the NFL are two completely different things.  If you view those two comments as the exact same I do not know what else to say.  And it is funny how everyone is just like yeah, you go Josh Rosen for saying what he did about winning when the kid was a flat out loser in college and had a sub par record at best.  Yet will lead NFL men even though he could not lead college kids, how exactly is that going to happen all of a sudden? 

 

Oh but he said it so it will happen because he is a competitive beast of all beasts.  Sorry watch him play, doubt any would comment on his great competitive prowess.  Josh Rosen is so competitive and passionate teammates cannot wait to play with him and for him, sure pretend that is the case all you want.  

 

If you think competitiveness is all about talking before you get drafted, and has nothing to do with actions then go ahead and believe it.  I would rather want a player prove himself with actions and performance rather than talking and brag himself to be the best to ever play the position before he has ever played a snap.  Sure athletes talk about being a great player but talk is cheap, actions and doing the small things are far more important to reaching your end goal.  

 

Go ahead, draft him for his amazing competitive greatness he never showed throughout his entire college career.  But no he has it in spades right.  

 

 

[Soko]

58 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Saying "I'm the best decision this organization has ever made." and saying I will be the winningest QB in the history of the NFL are two completely different things.  If you view those two comments as the exact same I do not know what else to say.  And it is funny how everyone is just like yeah, you go Josh Rosen for saying what he did about winning when the kid was a flat out loser in college and had a sub par record at best.  Yet will lead NFL men even though he could not lead college kids, how exactly is that going to happen all of a sudden? 

 

Oh but he said it so it will happen because he is a competitive beast of all beasts.  Sorry watch him play, doubt any would comment on his great competitive prowess.  Josh Rosen is so competitive and passionate teammates cannot wait to play with him and for him, sure pretend that is the case all you want.  

 

If you think competitiveness is all about talking before you get drafted, and has nothing to do with actions then go ahead and believe it.  I would rather want a player prove himself with actions and performance rather than talking and brag himself to be the best to ever play the position before he has ever played a snap.  Sure athletes talk about being a great player but talk is cheap, actions and doing the small things are far more important to reaching your end goal.  

 

Go ahead, draft him for his amazing competitive greatness he never showed throughout his entire college career.  But no he has it in spades right.  

 

 

Nobody was saying that that’s all there is to competitiveness. Nobody was saying that all he needs to do is talk the talk. Nobody is saying that he and Brady’s statements are 100% the same. 

What they’re saying is that Rosen’s comments are very common and pretty much what everybody wants to here. You can probably find a comment that’s very similar from a majority of NFL quarterbacks. He obviously can’t go out and prove at this very moment because the draft hasn’t happened yet - he shouldn’t be chastised for his goals, especially when they’re ones that plenty of players probably share. I believe Ray Lewis had a similar comment about being the GOAT when he was younger. 

The statement Rosen made wasn’t a bad one, like you believe it to be, and twisting everybody’s words isn’t going to prove anything.

[Speedyg]

On 4/16/2018 at 9:51 PM, TheVillain112 said:

My view on Rosen improved over the season.  In the opener against Texas A&M, while looked great on the stat sheet and made for a great "comeback", I was not impressed.  Lots of ducks being thrown in that game, and while you need some luck Rosen got a lot of it in that one.  The USC game later in the season however I was impressed with.  Thought he outplayed Darnold handily, and he was in rhythm all night and made some great throws from the pocket.

His throws on the move, and his deep ball aren't impressive.  But he'll eat some teams alive from the pocket...

I watched that A&M game and listened to the hype machine but all I saw were Blake Bortles-type of YOLO throws that just happened to connect.

[Iamcanadian]

Say what you want, as a prospect he has everything physically you want except mobility and if he was mobile, he would easily be the 1st QB drafted in this year's draft. Unfortunately, his immobility has led to numerous serious injuries including 2 concussions and shoulder problem and that gives him a huge red flag for teams considering drafting him.

He is my candidate to fall on draft day as teams are very reluctant to draft an injury prone player with a top 5 pick, since the GM who does it will be likely fired if he proves to also be injury prone as a pro!!!

[Tugboat]

Really good thread @Da_Ducktator.  Love discussion like this.  Has spurred a lot of interesting insight on both sides.

I keep catching myself falling a bit into the trap this thread is predicated on, sorta looking at Rosen as "the safe one" in this motley assortment of flawed but intriguing top QB prospects this year.  It's really more about the glaring flaws in the other guys, than about Rosen really being a guy to get super excited about or totally flawless himself however.

I said it somewhere here earlier in the season, but watching Rosen...i started getting these strong Andy Dalton vibes.  Haven't been able to shake it since.  He's got a cleaner delivery, though not quite as mobile coming out...but overall, this analysis really sorta lines up with that Andy Dalton-esque impression i can't get away from.  From the demeanor/leadership/ability to elevate a team, to the type of pseudo-good arm limitations, tight window problems without a "bailout superstar", and the inability to make plays on the move, and some of the Comp% INT% numbers in that other thread...i can't help but feel like a "realistic projection" for Rosen might actually just be...an Andy Dalton at the NFL level.

 

In today's QB-starved state...maybe getting an Andy Dalton is good enough.  He's done a remarkable job of riding right on that razors edge of long-term QB purgatory.  Just good enough to never quite get around to replacing him.  Good enough to win with a powerhouse team around him, but always sorta wanting more.  Just never fully going there out of fear that roughly half the league are currently worse off.  I think that pretty much aligns with what Rosen has achieved at UCLA too.  Always just enough to keep him in that top QB conversation...nothing more.

But it's where i look at this megahyped QB class and really wrestle with how to rank these guys.  I do think Rosen is probably still the "safest", even with those well articulated concerns highlighted in the original post...but the safest bet to be a "middling starter".  With the real potential to just put yourself in a torturous Andy Daltonesque QB Purgatory with Rosen's potentially lower ceiling.  Do you take a "bluechip Andy Dalton" Top-5?  Top-10?

Then, looking at the glaring flaws and potential failure points of the other top QBs...i can't help but find a guy like Josh Allen a lot easier to "fall in love with".  More likely to go out in a disastrous burning fireball wreck of a mishap, probably...but still easier to really get excited about than Josh Rosen.

If you need a QB though, you need one bad.  If you think he's Jimmy Clausen, you don't touch him...but if you think he's Andy Dalton?  You could do a lot worse.  The guy is one of ~1 rounds worth of Pro Bowlers from that draft right?  At the most important position?  Enough to keep your job safe probably.  Would just really suck to have to really talk yourself into it as you fill out that Top-5/10 draft card.

 

Such an interesting QB draft.  So much hype and intrigue.  So many flaws.

[vikestyle]

7 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Saying "I'm the best decision this organization has ever made." and saying I will be the winningest QB in the history of the NFL are two completely different things.  If you view those two comments as the exact same I do not know what else to say.  And it is funny how everyone is just like yeah, you go Josh Rosen for saying what he did about winning when the kid was a flat out loser in college and had a sub par record at best.  Yet will lead NFL men even though he could not lead college kids, how exactly is that going to happen all of a sudden? 

 

Oh but he said it so it will happen because he is a competitive beast of all beasts.  Sorry watch him play, doubt any would comment on his great competitive prowess.  Josh Rosen is so competitive and passionate teammates cannot wait to play with him and for him, sure pretend that is the case all you want.  

 

If you think competitiveness is all about talking before you get drafted, and has nothing to do with actions then go ahead and believe it.  I would rather want a player prove himself with actions and performance rather than talking and brag himself to be the best to ever play the position before he has ever played a snap.  Sure athletes talk about being a great player but talk is cheap, actions and doing the small things are far more important to reaching your end goal.  

 

Go ahead, draft him for his amazing competitive greatness he never showed throughout his entire college career.  But no he has it in spades right.  

 

 

You are misquoting him. He's not saying "I'm the best ever and I'm going to win the most games and most super bowls ever". He said he wants to be the winningest quarterback in history and if Brady wins 6 titles he wants to win 7. If he was walking out and guaranteeing he was going to win 7 super bowls, I'd agree with you. That would be delusional. However, wanting to do something and guaranteeing you're going to do something are two very different things. You have a negative perception of Josh Rosen and that is just fine, but you're just twisting words to fit your narrative.

[Da_Ducktator]

On 4/17/2018 at 12:38 AM, Iamcanadian said:

What a waste of time an effort. Josh Rosen is an excellent QB prospect and likely would have been the 1st QB drafted except for one serious red flag and that is immobility, which has already caused 2 concussions and a shoulder injury and GM's rarely gamble on injury prone players in the top 5, since their job security usually depends on how their top 5 pick performs over time! When you get compared to Sam Bradford, you get the idea of how GM's view drafting him. High risk, high rewards, but obviously some QB desperate eam will take a shot.

The fact that he is likely to be drafted top 5, just shows how talented he is, given his durability problems!

 

8 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Say what you want, as a prospect he has everything physically you want except mobility and if he was mobile, he would easily be the 1st QB drafted in this year's draft. Unfortunately, his immobility has led to numerous serious injuries including 2 concussions and shoulder problem and that gives him a huge red flag for teams considering drafting him.

He is my candidate to fall on draft day as teams are very reluctant to draft an injury prone player with a top 5 pick, since the GM who does it will be likely fired if he proves to also be injury prone as a pro!!!

Backed down a bit after a report about Rosen falling on draft day backed up my argument, eh?

Also, it goes to show you how blind some people are. If you actually read the original post, look at the numbers, and look at the videos, there is much more problematic with Rosen's game than simply mobility. And it's not that he lacks mobility (though it's certainly not a strong suit), it's that he is HORRENDOUS when forced to throw on the move. When Rosen is unable to have his body completely in sync with a pass, it comes down to all arm talent when making a throw (those off-platform throws), and there is a glaring amount of throws on tape in those situations when the ball completely misses his target. Why? Because his arm isn't strong enough to put the ball where it needs to go when he isn't allowed to deliver with a perfect set-up. Do you really fail to see the problem in that?

Add-on terrible 3rd down numbers that put him into a grouping that has a 7 percent success rate and the fact that his record has struggled mightily. I know somebody else in this thread was trying to bail out Rosen on this matter because of his surrounding talent. Well, his LT is about to go 1st round, his tight end (granted he got hurt and only played five games) is a future 1st rounder, and he had a WR in Jordan Lasley that will be drafted at some point and has a starting skill-set for the next level. Not to mention, his center will be drafted, and Darren Andrews and Austin Roberts likely get camp invites. Also, Jim Mora and the Bruins were 29-11 in the first three years under Mora. I don't think Mora is a great coach by any means, but do you really think it was Rick Neuheisel who set them up for success those first few years with Mora? Their worst season before Rosen under Mora was 9-5 and they rattled off back-to-back 10-3 years before Rosen took over. Darnold had a pretty good defense across the street, but his offensive line was bad and his best wide receiver ran a 4.7 at his Pro Day. Ronald Jones was basically all Darnold had last year, and he still got them into a New Year's day bowl.

 

Also, something I didn't look at before until it was brought up to me yesterday on Twitter, is that Rosen was awful in the red-zone as well. I am going to take a look at how that compares to past QB classes, but the redzone arguably requires the most in terms of decision-making and arm strength. Tighter windows and less field to work with so fitting the ball in precisely and making the right decisions is key. Last year, Rosen's QB rating was 18 points outside of the top 100 in the country, he tied for the nation's most INT's, and he completed only 47.8 percent of his passes. The year before, he completed just six of 22 pass attempts (27.3 percent) with a 105.29 QB Rating.

[Da_Ducktator]

Once again, an ugly grouping for Rosen to be apart of.