DeCastro-type situation

[3rivers]

On 2018-04-17 at 9:16 AM, kurgan said:

Ok, so let's play fantasy island for a second.

We are sitting at #28 on draft day and we sit and someone tumbles to #28.  Someone that was not supposed to fall, but does.  Someone that we have to really think about taking, even if it is NOT a position of need.  For this scenario, I am not talking about a QB or RB, since that would cause too much discussion about stuff we already talked about on here.  Also, obviously if one of the top 4 LB's fell we would take them as well, and even like Denzel Ward would be a no-brainer.  Here are the 3 top-20 guys that have been pretty much been concensus top guys that I would like to hear if you all would want to take if they were there at 28.

For this scenario, imagine all the LBs are gone and lets say Reid to Carolina.  So, you have some edges and the late round corners, and like Bates.  No trade back scenarios are in play.

1. DT Vita Vea, Washington
2. OL Isaiah Wynn, Georgia
3. OT Mike McGlinchy, Notre Dame

I wouldn't draft McGlinchy in RD1 or RD2, I don't understand the hype.

Your thread is one I am hoping to follow. We would like to have a player of the calibre of DDC fall to us, so now it's just a matter of time before we learn who  Too bad Quinten Nelson didn't have a bad combine. 

[3rivers]

On 2018-04-17 at 3:32 PM, kurgan said:

@Steeler Hitman and @warfelg I see both sides.  Why spend a first rounder on a two down player??  But, isn't a safety at this point a role player??  I would think that there is no every down player that we can get at #28 knowing our defense.

@jebrick; interesting analysis.  I think that number will be off since OTs and WRs are so down this year.  I mean, the earliest I have seen a WR go is #16 to Baltimore.  That is late compared to other years.  Not to mention OTs... I can see maybe McGlinchy and Williams going before #28, but that is not for certain.

 

Hitman, just for Sh%ts and giggles, what would a mock for you look like if we took Vea first??  Gotta be secondary and then WR in the next two, right??  Just curious....

good question about a "2 down player" especially in the way the league is now. If we know teams would run on first and second down, then sure especially if there is always 3rd and unmanageable .  Teams will just go with passing if they can't run, and most teams can pass especially vs our D.  If they was 8 years ago I could see the idea of trying to find Hampton's replacement, but the league has changed too much. 

[3rivers]

To all here, what are the players at CB, OLB, ILB, OG, S that you would consider for this DDC situation thread? DDC was said to be the best guard in 10 years, so that is exceptional. Your candidates could be close to that, so who are they?

[warfelg]

10 minutes ago, 3rivers said:

To all here, what are the players at CB, OLB, ILB, OG, S that you would consider for this DDC situation thread? DDC was said to be the best guard in 10 years, so that is exceptional. Your candidates could be close to that, so who are they?

Derwin James (S); Edmunds (ILB); Smith (ILB); Davenport (OLB)  No interest in OG if that happens.  That's a silly overblown "need".  

Outside of that, I would be mad if they took some of these guys but if it happened: Calvin Ridley (WR); Da'Ron Payne (DE)

[AFF]

1 hour ago, 3rivers said:

To all here, what are the players at CB, OLB, ILB, OG, S that you would consider for this DDC situation thread? DDC was said to be the best guard in 10 years, so that is exceptional. Your candidates could be close to that, so who are they?

Ward at CB for me...honestly I think the Steelers need to ride or die with Burns and give PT to Sutton and Allen before drafting another CB high but Ward falling would give me the green light.

[3rivers]

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

Derwin James (S); Edmunds (ILB); Smith (ILB); Davenport (OLB)  No interest in OG if that happens.  That's a silly overblown "need".  

Outside of that, I would be mad if they took some of these guys but if it happened: Calvin Ridley (WR); Da'Ron Payne (DE)

Agree OG comment as with Finney and DDC we have top tier starter OG's. If Hernandez is there RD2, it would be quite a back up to have, but that isn't worthy of this famed DDC thread is ut . DDC was quite a gift in the draft, just glad colbert never failed there.  Just remembering the jarvis rush to the podium

Would you sign N.Bowman and then consider ILB good enough to possibly consider a different position for RD1? Off courser Evans and Bowman could work well at ILB too wouldn't it? 

[JustPlainNasty]

Id draft Wynn. Its a far bigger need then many here suggested in drafting a lesser talented Hubbard. 

I also think McGlinchey fans could be very disappointed in the potential struggles he will have. Im not sure how many times you have to get beat in a season to be judged as a potential concern. The limit for a game must be more than 6 anyway. Its even more discouraging when you play next to a perennial All American guard.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Id draft Wynn. Its a far bigger need then many here suggested in drafting a lesser talented Hubbard. 

Forster is still a very capable starter and Finney has been well groomed to take his place. Drafting a guard would be a waste. And the minimal meetings with OL kinda back that up. 

[JustPlainNasty]

Foster is on his last year most likely. Finney is a nice player, but is the type that ends up showing his limitations the more you see him play. Its kind of like Chris Hoke, heck of a player, we all loved him, but hes a better depth guy than a true starter most likely. In any case in Wynn you get what looks like a solid to sure thing, cause his feet and hands are very good, just depends on how stout he can be inside, but he can definitely swing to tackle when necessary. 

There are some nice guards in this draft, not all are great fits for the Steelers, but they are good.

[Steeler Hitman]

14 hours ago, 3rivers said:

good question about a "2 down player" especially in the way the league is now. If we know teams would run on first and second down, then sure especially if there is always 3rd and unmanageable .  Teams will just go with passing if they can't run, and most teams can pass especially vs our D.  If they was 8 years ago I could see the idea of trying to find Hampton's replacement, but the league has changed too much. 

That is the conventional thinking.  People still under-estimate the value of the running game.  Yes it is a passing league.  Yes teams will not play to your strength.  You put eight in the box, smart teams will try to pass.  You go Nickel or Dime on early downs, teams will try to gash you with the run.  My questions is why do you have to always do things conventionally?  There is a specific type (size, speed, hands, arm length, vertical jump, etc)  for all positions.  NG's are not supposed to be able to collapse the pocket. You should be able to run on 235 lb LB'ers. You don't have to go so rogue in your thinking that you try to reinvent some things, but rather alter them.  Tuitt and Cam are 3-4 type DE's that usually kick inside so that you can get traditional edge rushers to rush.  Cam and Tuitt are capable "on occasion" to play DE in some situations.  We don't do it because they don't fit "the conventional" Edge rusher.  Our defense could not stop the run (inside or off tackle).  Teams knew what we were vulnerable to and exploited it.  I would argue that they did this because we kept the same personnel and conventional thinking.

Defenses have had success doing things and employing personnel that have not been seen or utilized before.  In the 60's teams like the Chargers and Raiders employed the forward pass to move the ball.  The Steelers started using a guy named Joe Green who would line up over the Center and tilt his body left or right.  The Steelers employed something called the zone blitz where people would blitz from the CB or safety positions, and DL's would drop in coverage. Buddy Ryan came up with a defense he called the 4-6 and I could go on and on.  The point is don't be afraid to do something different and get pigeon-holed into thinking everything must be done this way or that would never work.

Vita Vea is not an ordinary NG.  He can move and do things that guys half his size can't. If you get a special talent, adjust some of your defense to use the skills of that special talent.  Haloti Ngata was a beast early because of all the things he could do.  Would we not have drafted Aaron Donald despite the fact he does not fit the conventional 3-4 player at NG or DE?  We took Javon Hargraves who does not fit as a 3-4 NG or DE.  The problem is we haven't adjusted our defense to match his skills and talents.   Try to make him Casey Hampton and he struggles. Most of us agree with that. 

[Steeler Hitman]

11 hours ago, warfelg said:

Forster is still a very capable starter and Finney has been well groomed to take his place. Drafting a guard would be a waste. And the minimal meetings with OL kinda back that up. 

I also like the two guys who are developing Kyle Friend and Matt Feiler.  I don't put OL as high a priority as some. I do think where we could use some depth is C.

[warfelg]

Just now, Steeler Hitman said:

I also like the two guys who are developing Kyle Friend and Matt Feiler.  I don't put OL as high a priority as some. I do think where we could use some depth is C.

Yea, but that's a round 5-7 range issue, not a round 1 thing.

[Steeler Hitman]

11 hours ago, 3rivers said:

Agree OG comment as with Finney and DDC we have top tier starter OG's. If Hernandez is there RD2, it would be quite a back up to have, but that isn't worthy of this famed DDC thread is ut . DDC was quite a gift in the draft, just glad colbert never failed there.  Just remembering the jarvis rush to the podium

Would you sign N.Bowman and then consider ILB good enough to possibly consider a different position for RD1? Off courser Evans and Bowman could work well at ILB too wouldn't it? 

I think Bowman already re-signed with the Raiders for one year.  I am actually fine with Bostic. Same type of player as Bowman.  I think we need either a three down ILB  (Evans) or a guy who can play the pass year one and then can develop (D. Leonard type). 

[Steeler Hitman]

18 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Yea, but that's a round 5-7 range issue, not a round 1 thing.

Agreed.

[warfelg]

11 hours ago, 3rivers said:

Agree OG comment as with Finney and DDC we have top tier starter OG's. If Hernandez is there RD2, it would be quite a back up to have, but that isn't worthy of this famed DDC thread is ut . DDC was quite a gift in the draft, just glad colbert never failed there.  Just remembering the jarvis rush to the podium

Would you sign N.Bowman and then consider ILB good enough to possibly consider a different position for RD1? Off courser Evans and Bowman could work well at ILB too wouldn't it? 

Sure he's good enough to consider.  Issue is Bowman wants to stay on the west coast, he wants more than we can offer, and he's more of the same (even though hes better) of what we have in a downhill thumping box linebacker.