Group Consensus Mock - Rd 2 Winner Jessie Bates

[JLambert58]

In a landslide, Bates makes quick work of the field:

With the 60th pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the Pittsburgh Steelers select 

Jessie Bates, safety Wake Forest

[JLambert58]

Alright, we got our ILB and our S.  Now things will get a little more interesting.  

Please throw out some suggestions for round 3.

And @Chieferific apologies about Lorenzo Carter.  This year's Bucky Hodges?

[warfelg]

Lorenzo Carter OLB, BJ Hill NT, Rasheem Green DE, Carlton Davis CB, Equanimeous St. Brown WR, Jerome Baker OLB/DE, Dante Pettis WR, Trevon Young EDGE, Poona Ford NT

 

That would be my suggestions for the list at this point.

[warfelg]

On the note of who won....I dunno why so of you love this guy when the player at FS we just cut had the same weaknessess:

Quote

Weaknesses

• Has just two years of game experience
• Needs more meat on his bones
• Plays bigger than his frame raising durability concerns
• Needs to play with better discipline in deep coverage responsibilities
• Sniffs around on misdirection and will allow routes to get beyond him
• Doesn't have a big second gear in his closing burst
• Angles to the ball in coverage and as a tackler need work
• Inconsistent tackler due to leverage issues
• Overpursues and allows runners to cut back across his face

 

[Chieferific]

27 minutes ago, JLambert58 said:

Alright, we got our ILB and our S.  Now things will get a little more interesting.  

Please throw out some suggestions for round 3.

And @Chieferific apologies about Lorenzo Carter.  This year's Bucky Hodges?

Leave Bucky out of this! But Carter was on the 1st Rd list. I would have voted for him if he was on this list. Imagine Evans/Carter/Gaulden. 

[MOSteelers56]

11 minutes ago, warfelg said:

On the note of who won....I dunno why so of you love this guy when the player at FS we just cut had the same weaknessess:

 

It's convenient you only show his weaknesses. His strengths are nothing like Mitchell's. Mitchell was a hitter who couldn't hit. Bates is a ballhawk and sometimes you have to take the bad with the good with ballhawks. 

[Chieferific]

13 minutes ago, warfelg said:

On the note of who won....I dunno why so of you love this guy when the player at FS we just cut had the same weaknessess:

 

Are you really trying to compare Bates to Mitchell cause that's ridiculous. 

[jebrick]

Last year I liked Marcus Williams who has the same weaknesses ( shown below) as Bates.  Williams was ranked one of the best safeties and the best rookie safety last year.  He had 4 more interceptions than Michael.  Had 5 more PD then Michael and 6 MORE TACKLES THAN MICHAEL.  In all aspects he would be a vast improvement over Michael.  Do I think Bates can be the same?  Yes.

Quote

WEAKNESSES: Williams lacks the bulk scouts would prefer at the position, possessing relatively narrow hips and thin limbs that may leave him more vulnerable to injury. In part due to his lack of preferred size, Williams is not an intimidating hitter that strikes fear into opposing receivers crossing the middle. He will climb on bigger ball-carriers and 'rassle them to the ground, rather than lower his shoulder and drive through his hips, at times getting taken for a ride for a few yards before successfully bringing the ball-carrier to the ground. The undisclosed injury (reportedly a knee sprain) that kept Williams out of two midseason games in 2016 requires a close look by NFL doctors at the Combine.

Quote

WEAKNESSES
Lean-limbed and needs to continue and fill out. Lacks ideal bulk or play strength to handle work in the box. Would rather avoid blockers than go through them, lacking the muscle or hand usage to pry through a crowd. Bad habit of waiting on his heels as a run defender. Needs to do a better job squaring his target and wrapping to avoid sliding off tackle attempts. Needs to finish when he gets his hands on the football and should have had more than six interceptions in college. Doesn’t have ideal body armor or growth potential for the position – missed two games as a sophomore due to a knee injury (Oct. 2017). – Dane Brugler 1/14/2018

 

[Armsteeld2]

25 minutes ago, warfelg said:

On the note of who won....I dunno why so of you love this guy when the player at FS we just cut had the same weaknessess:

 

Bates wasn’t my choice.  I prefer physical Safeties.  “Draft experts” are high on Bates and Reid and I’m not sold on either as someone I’d draft high.  I’d rather have Marcus Allen. 

[warfelg]

I'm not comparing them, but if those are all the same things we ripped Mitchell on why are so many of you keen on a guy that could have the same issues?

[warfelg]

9 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Last year I liked Marcus Williams who has the same weaknesses ( shown below) as Bates.  Williams was ranked one of the best safeties and the best rookie safety last year.  He had 4 more interceptions than Michael.  Had 5 more PD then Michael and 6 MORE TACKLES THAN MICHAEL.  In all aspects he would be a vast improvement over Michael.  Do I think Bates can be the same?  Yes.

 

Williams also had the benefit of a lock down corner and a better pass rush.  In fact the idea that he could play so well almost perfectly proves what @Armsteeld2 and I have said most often: You need a dominate front 7 more than a dominate backfield.

[MOSteelers56]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

Williams also had the benefit of a lock down corner and a better pass rush.  In fact the idea that he could play so well almost perfectly proves what @Armsteeld2 and I have said most often: You need a dominate front 7 more than a dominate backfield.

But there's no player in this draft that will improve our front seven so much. May as well get the ballhawk and draft a pass rusher next year or hope for improvement in Dupree and/or Watt. We have front seven players with potential. We have nobody at safety that has a lot of that. Don't force a pick at a position of need. That's why teams suck.

[JLambert58]

2 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

Are you really trying to compare Bates to Mitchell cause that's ridiculous. 

You beat me to it.

This is an absurd comparison.  Bates is the anti-Mike Mitchell.  Bates gets to his spot, he's not a headhunter like Mitchell, his tackling, if anything, is a bit too careful and methodical, but effective, takes good angles AND he actually makes INTs which is something Mitchell rarely did. 

[warfelg]

Just now, MOSteelers56 said:

But there's no player in this draft that will improve our front seven so much. May as well get the ballhawk and draft a pass rusher next year or hope for improvement in Dupree and/or Watt. We have front seven players with potential. We have nobody at safety that has a lot of that. Don't force a pick at a position of need. That's why teams suck.

That's exactly what you are doing though with Bates in the second.  I've seen far more evidence of him being a player ranked in the 80-100 range than the 30-60 range where most of you want him.  This happens almost every single year like clockwork.  A mid round prospect has a nice combine and some of y'all get super hyped about him and want him much earlier than where he should go.  Then when he goes in the 4th and we don't really hear from him or he does ok, there's little talk about him.

This team seems to be very content with 3 physical safeties who can both do FS/SS type stuff.  It's why I fully expect to see Morgan Burnett and Sean Davis as the starters day 1, and the only way they get supplanted is injury where they are massively outplayed.  

Bates is a gambling safety who trusts his eyes too much, over reacts to plays, tries to make up for it with athleticism.  That's fine in college when you aren't playing high quality players.  Watch games against some of the better NCAA teams and you will see a guy that was out of position, taking bad angles, shying from tackles, and over running plays.

[JPeezy55]

I don't understand why it seems like almost every single player has to be nitpicked to the core on here. I understand scouting and finding weaknesses....but come on, everyone has weaknesses. And thats not a direct shot at anyone, it just seems like its so hard for people to just look at a guys strengths and see that they out weight the weaknesses he may have