Talk Me Off Of These Players I'm High On

[BleedTheClock]

The opposite of my last thread.

Here are a bunch of dudes I think are going to be studs that go against conventional wisdom:

 

1. RJ McIntosh DT

"McIntosh has the size and speed to light up everyone he goes against. He is inconsistent with his motor, but when he's on, he looks like a prime Richard Seymour. His highlight tape is riddled with TFL's and QB pressures. He can split double teams, rush the passer with swim and rips, and bull right through OL. Yeah he needs to improve his consistency big-time, but on talent alone, he's one of the most talented football players in this entire draft class."

 

2. Anthony Miller WR

"A lot of people like him, but I keep seeing him mocked in the 2nd-3rd round. I have him as a top 20 player in the class. He runs elite routes, catches in traffic like a dude much bigger than he actually is, and has the speed and agility to separate from press coverage. He reminds me of Antonio Brown, but that comparison is obviously pretty rich in nature given Brown is one of the GOAT WR's. I expect him to become a consistent 1,000 yard WR in the NFL."

 

3. Marcus Davenport DE

"People aren't low on him, but I have him as the 6th best player in this draft class. He's got unreal potential and has by far the best singular pass rush move I've seen a prospect have in a long time. His ability to bull rush OT's is crazy. He's done it to everyone he's played against. Consistently violent and fast off the snap. He does need to improve his motor, where he's below average. Not a great run defender, but IMO, the best pass rusher in this class BY FAR."

 

4. MJ Stewart CB

"I have him as the 3rd rated cornerback and think he's a legitimate #1. While he lacks the physical traits of a true #1, his tape shows him locking down guys with vertical speed, quickness, and size. He can play press and off man, press and off zone. He's a great tackler and has excellent instincts. His long speed is questionable, but I only saw him get roasted once in at least 15 games of tape. I've watched a boatload of Stewart tape over the last two years. He might slide into the late 1st round IMO."

 

5. Kurt Benkert QB

"I still think he's a franchise QB. He's got every physical tool you need and lit up some of the best defenses in the country throughout his career. Not much talent around him, but he still spread it around the field and demonstrated elite potential. He was wildly inconsistent and played poorly against some bad teams, but his good game tapes are spectacular. I thought for sure he'd be getting some late 1st round buzz as the process went along, but it appears that he's still entrenched in day 3. I think he's at least worth a 2nd round pick. Reminds me of Jimmy Garoppolo."

 

6. Jerome Baker LB

"He's so talented. He's got elite lateral speed and unbelievable closing speed working downhill. He needs to improve his instincts, but he flashed the ability to do everything necessary to be a top-flight LB. He has the versatility to play any LB spot too. Can't imagine him not being successful in some capacity, as I fully expect his instincts to improve with time. He needs to play with better pacing to his game and not be so aggressive if he's going to be a WLB prospect. I think he learns how to do that and ends up being one of the better linebackers in the NFL."

 

7. Jester Weah WR

"Not sure why he's not getting more pub. He's big, fast, runs great routes, and catches everything. He also runs a full route tree in college and played in a pro style offense. He made some great catches while blanketed between defenders. He's also a great blocker. He reminds me of Hakeem Nicks coming out of North Carolina. Weah isn't a blazing fast WR, but he's fast enough with his size to be considered a potential future #1 WR."

 

8. Deon Cain WR

"This kid has legitimate #1 WR traits. He's big, fast, and supremely athletic. While he isn't a great nuanced route runner, he is seemingly always running open down the field. He glides past defenders and is capable of going up and getting the 50/50 balls. He does struggle some with dropped passes, but I don't think it's enough of an issue to push him out of the early 2nd round at the latest. He's one of the most talented WR's in this class and one of the few guys that could become a traditional #1 ht/wt/spd WR for somebody."

 

9. Akrum Wadley RB

"I usually hate small runningbacks that aren't fast, but this kid's vision and toughness make me overlook his lack of size and speed. He and Walton are both underrated, but I think more people are on the Walton bandwagon than they are on the Wadley one. Wadley's tough as nails and runs between the tackles better than any RB in this draft class. He knows how to twist and churn for the tough yards despite his size. He's also a very good pass blocker and won't need to come off the field in any situation. Poor man's LeSean McCoy."

 

10. DaShawn Hand DT

"Hand is a collegiate disappointment, but he's a freak of nature. With his size, he shouldn't be that fast. I don't want to call him Chris Jones because Jones had more flashes than Hand did, but on talent alone, Hand is a 1st rounder all day. His technique sucks and his effort has been questioned, but if you can hone in his skills, he's going to be a superstar as a 3-tech or even better, as a 3-4 5-technique."

[Chwf3rd25]

3 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

 

6. Jerome Baker LB

"He's so talented. He's got elite lateral speed and unbelievable closing speed working downhill. He needs to improve his instincts, but he flashed the ability to do everything necessary to be a top-flight LB. He has the versatility to play any LB spot too. Can't imagine him not being successful in some capacity, as I fully expect his instincts to improve with time. He needs to play with better pacing to his game and not be so aggressive if he's going to be a WLB prospect. I think he learns how to do that and ends up being one of the better linebackers in the NFL."

9. Akrum Wadley RB

"I usually hate small runningbacks that aren't fast, but this kid's vision and toughness make me overlook his lack of size and speed. He and Walton are both underrated, but I think more people are on the Walton bandwagon than they are on the Wadley one. Wadley's tough as nails and runs between the tackles better than any RB in this draft class. He knows how to twist and churn for the tough yards despite his size. He's also a very good pass blocker and won't need to come off the field in any situation. Poor man's LeSean McCoy."

I pretty much like everybody else on your list but these are the two i'm lower on than the consensus.

Baker - I have him as my LB14 with a Day 3 grade.  All I see is a very rangey WLB with very little else going on for him in a draft full of similar types of LBs (Warner, Burks, Matthew Thomas).  His reaction time can be so slow where it covers up his speed and he's not a physical player at all.  He consistently disappears in games and honestly he's probably the most boring player I've watched this year.  I get that his range is incredible but I don't see a single other trait that stands out.

Wadley - Wadley is a 23 year old 5'10/190lb slow RB.  His size limits him to a satellite back role and while he's incredibly quick he lacks the explosion of the many other satellite-type backs available this year.  I'm not totally sure what the upside is as I can't think of another back that succeeded with his height/weight and while his quick lateral agility should translate he's not explosive at all.  Give me Walton, Ito Smith, Nyheim Hines, Chase Edmonds, and even Martez Carter over Wadley in that role.

[Soko]

Seems like you tend to appreciate guys with high ceilings and flashes.

[brownie man]

watch out for Deon Cain's drops

he is going to make plays 

but he might also bust because of the drops 

[Iamcanadian]

5 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

The opposite of my last thread.

Here are a bunch of dudes I think are going to be studs that go against conventional wisdom:

 

1. RJ McIntosh DT

"McIntosh has the size and speed to light up everyone he goes against. He is inconsistent with his motor, but when he's on, he looks like a prime Richard Seymour. His highlight tape is riddled with TFL's and QB pressures. He can split double teams, rush the passer with swim and rips, and bull right through OL. Yeah he needs to improve his consistency big-time, but on talent alone, he's one of the most talented football players in this entire draft class."

Quote

Look at 293 lbs. he will have to make a living as a rush DT who can get to the QB and get sacks. In college, where are the sacks, he practically in 3 years had very few and that alone does not bode well for a pro career. He'll get a look in round 5 or 6! 

 

2. Anthony Miller WR

"A lot of people like him, but I keep seeing him mocked in the 2nd-3rd round. I have him as a top 20 player in the class. He runs elite routes, catches in traffic like a dude much bigger than he actually is, and has the speed and agility to separate from press coverage. He reminds me of Antonio Brown, but that comparison is obviously pretty rich in nature given Brown is one of the GOAT WR's. I expect him to become a consistent 1,000 yard WR in the NFL."

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He's a second rounder because he is 5'11" tall. He definitely has a shot if he can overcome his height limitations, but nobody is going to take him higher at 5'11".

 

3. Marcus Davenport DE

"People aren't low on him, but I have him as the 6th best player in this draft class. He's got unreal potential and has by far the best singular pass rush move I've seen a prospect have in a long time. His ability to bull rush OT's is crazy. He's done it to everyone he's played against. Consistently violent and fast off the snap. He does need to improve his motor, where he's below average. Not a great run defender, but IMO, the best pass rusher in this class BY FAR."

Quote

He's a solid 1st rounder who could go near the end of the top 10, but more likely in the top 15 range, hardly much of a longshot getting picked that high!

 

4. MJ Stewart CB

"I have him as the 3rd rated cornerback and think he's a legitimate #1. While he lacks the physical traits of a true #1, his tape shows him locking down guys with vertical speed, quickness, and size. He can play press and off man, press and off zone. He's a great tackler and has excellent instincts. His long speed is questionable, but I only saw him get roasted once in at least 15 games of tape. I've watched a boatload of Stewart tape over the last two years. He might slide into the late 1st round IMO."

Quote

He is not going to be a 1st or 2nd rounder, he is a solid round 4 guy who might sneak into round 3. That's where you get drafted based on film but lacking in the speed for the position, likely by a zone playing pro team! 

5. Kurt Benkert QB

"I still think he's a franchise QB. He's got every physical tool you need and lit up some of the best defenses in the country throughout his career. Not much talent around him, but he still spread it around the field and demonstrated elite potential. He was wildly inconsistent and played poorly against some bad teams, but his good game tapes are spectacular. I thought for sure he'd be getting some late 1st round buzz as the process went along, but it appears that he's still entrenched in day 3. I think he's at least worth a 2nd round pick. Reminds me of Jimmy Garoppolo."

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He is no where near Garp on potential and will be a 5th or 6th rounder at best. Inconsistent is putting it mildly!

 

6. Jerome Baker LB

"He's so talented. He's got elite lateral speed and unbelievable closing speed working downhill. He needs to improve his instincts, but he flashed the ability to do everything necessary to be a top-flight LB. He has the versatility to play any LB spot too. Can't imagine him not being successful in some capacity, as I fully expect his instincts to improve with time. He needs to play with better pacing to his game and not be so aggressive if he's going to be a WLB prospect. I think he learns how to do that and ends up being one of the better linebackers in the NFL."

Quote

He's fast but that is about it. He lacks any kind of instincts for a WSBLand that is something you can rarely teach! Special team's player for sure, but not much more!

 

7. Jester Weah WR

"Not sure why he's not getting more pub. He's big, fast, runs great routes, and catches everything. He also runs a full route tree in college and played in a pro style offense. He made some great catches while blanketed between defenders. He's also a great blocker. He reminds me of Hakeem Nicks coming out of North Carolina. Weah isn't a blazing fast WR, but he's fast enough with his size to be considered a potential future #1 WR."

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The WR crop in this year's class leaves a lot to be desired, there are a whole bunch of WR who could possibly develop into a solid starter, but none that really standout as guarantees at this point, but talking about any of them as possible #1's is a stretch IMO.

 

8. Deon Cain WR

"This kid has legitimate #1 WR traits. He's big, fast, and supremely athletic. While he isn't a great nuanced route runner, he is seemingly always running open down the field. He glides past defenders and is capable of going up and getting the 50/50 balls. He does struggle some with dropped passes, but I don't think it's enough of an issue to push him out of the early 2nd round at the latest. He's one of the most talented WR's in this class and one of the few guys that could become a traditional #1 ht/wt/spd WR for somebody."

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He has decent speed but has not been that productive in college and will be a late second or more likely a 3rd round pick and when you are picked that high, there is always the potential for some success at the next level!

 

9. Akrum Wadley RB

"I usually hate small runningbacks that aren't fast, but this kid's vision and toughness make me overlook his lack of size and speed. He and Walton are both underrated, but I think more people are on the Walton bandwagon than they are on the Wadley one. Wadley's tough as nails and runs between the tackles better than any RB in this draft class. He knows how to twist and churn for the tough yards despite his size. He's also a very good pass blocker and won't need to come off the field in any situation. Poor man's LeSean McCoy."

Quote

 

He is actually rated pretty decently for a 5'10" 194 LBSer.with 4.54 speed.

 He is quick but it is doubtful, he can be anything more that a backup RB!

 

10. DaShawn Hand DT

"Hand is a collegiate disappointment, but he's a freak of nature. With his size, he shouldn't be that fast. I don't want to call him Chris Jones because Jones had more flashes than Hand did, but on talent alone, Hand is a 1st rounder all day. His technique sucks and his effort has been questioned, but if you can hone in his skills, he's going to be a superstar as a 3-tech or even better, as a 3-4 5-technique."

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This guy is an enigma, he has physical skills to be a 3-4 DE or a rush DT, but he has not yet put it together, but he could be a very late 2nd rounder, but more likely an early 3rd rounder based on potential alone! 

 

I'll say this much, you are not afraid to state your case, but your assessments as prospects leaves a lot to be questioned, especially as I consider this draft class rather mediocre at best and if you are not getting any buzz, you have to wonder if a guy has any chance!!

[Tugboat]

5 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

5. Kurt Benkert QB

"I still think he's a franchise QB. He's got every physical tool you need and lit up some of the best defenses in the country throughout his career. Not much talent around him, but he still spread it around the field and demonstrated elite potential. He was wildly inconsistent and played poorly against some bad teams, but his good game tapes are spectacular. I thought for sure he'd be getting some late 1st round buzz as the process went along, but it appears that he's still entrenched in day 3. I think he's at least worth a 2nd round pick. Reminds me of Jimmy Garoppolo."

 

8. Deon Cain WR

"This kid has legitimate #1 WR traits. He's big, fast, and supremely athletic. While he isn't a great nuanced route runner, he is seemingly always running open down the field. He glides past defenders and is capable of going up and getting the 50/50 balls. He does struggle some with dropped passes, but I don't think it's enough of an issue to push him out of the early 2nd round at the latest. He's one of the most talented WR's in this class and one of the few guys that could become a traditional #1 ht/wt/spd WR for somebody."

I'd really like to believe in Benkert.  He's got some nice tools, size, and an arm that can be pretty good at times, and he's mobile and able to throw on the run too.  But i just can't buy it.  He can certainly look promising on a good day, but on the bad days...good heavens yikes.  The mechanics are all over the place.  He uncorks a nice one from time to time that actually looks pretty natural, but he also often has a tendency to start muscling balls with his upper body in a vaguely Tebow-ish way that is pretty gross, and leads to wild inaccuracy.  Not an easy fix, if fixable at all.  Tied into that, but i feel like he's trying to hurt the turf sometimes the way he pounds it in there at receivers' feet.  The biggest turn off for me though, is the way he ironclad locks-on to guys.  It's brutal to watch.  There's some kind of encouraging tape to go with his tools, but there's so much bad tape in that wild inconsistency that the "good" starts to feel like a bit of a lucky anomaly, rather than where the "upside" arrow is really pointing.  Really have to wonder about a QB with those sort of tools who can't seem to find a home program to settle into and take charge of as well, though that's more of a peculiarity than a definite knock i guess.

As for Deon Cain...it's simple.  He's a H/W/S receiver who isn't actually good at catching footballs.  Doesn't have great awareness of the field, and doesn't run very good routes.  Few things more frustrating than a receiver who sucks at catching imo.  He's big and pretty smooth and looks the part running around, but he's basically a taller Sammie Coates.

 

2 hours ago, Chwf3rd25 said:

I pretty much like everybody else on your list but these are the two i'm lower on than the consensus.

Baker - I have him as my LB14 with a Day 3 grade.  All I see is a very rangey WLB with very little else going on for him in a draft full of similar types of LBs (Warner, Burks, Matthew Thomas).  His reaction time can be so slow where it covers up his speed and he's not a physical player at all.  He consistently disappears in games and honestly he's probably the most boring player I've watched this year.  I get that his range is incredible but I don't see a single other trait that stands out.

Wadley - Wadley is a 23 year old 5'10/190lb slow RB.  His size limits him to a satellite back role and while he's incredibly quick he lacks the explosion of the many other satellite-type backs available this year.  I'm not totally sure what the upside is as I can't think of another back that succeeded with his height/weight and while his quick lateral agility should translate he's not explosive at all.  Give me Walton, Ito Smith, Nyheim Hines, Chase Edmonds, and even Martez Carter over Wadley in that role.

 

With Wadley, that's still not really turning me off him either.  He may not be a real "feature back", but he runs bigger than his size, and faster than his timed speed.  His ability to comb through trash with lateral agility and patience to find yards inside, it's hard to see that not translating somehow in the NFL.  Add in his ability as a receiver and elusive runner on the perimeter, and i think you've got a solid 1b sort of tandem back who can still work the middle when asked.  I do like Walton and Edmonds too though.

 

Pretty much exactly where i'd go on Jerome Baker though.  His range is impressive...covers all sorts of ground on the field, but that's pretty much it.  There's nothing else of substance to him.  I think he does have a role in the NFL as a coverage LBer with the tools and range to potentially succeed there, but everything else about him is kinda frustrating to watch and i'm honestly not sure he won't get bullied by NFL TEs and WRs.  He's soft, he often either doesn't seem to trust what he sees, or doesn't see what he needs to and it slows him down from what his open field running speed suggests he could be.  Just so non-physical, and seems to look at his "best" when buzzing around the open field in the middle of nowhere.  Though i think Burks stinks even more, but for a lot of the same sort of reasons.

 

Though that comment leads perfect into one of my candidates for this thread:

Fred Warner: Can anyone talk me down on this guy?  He gives me flashes of Telvin Smith type upside as a 4-3 WILL.  Has that same ability to fly sideline to sideline to make big plays, and does it with some urgency and violence of action.  One of my favourite players in this draft.  I know the scheme has "protected" him a little bit by simplifying things to often let him just run and chase...but isn't that what the best NFL defenses are doing for their own playmaking run and chase LBers?

[MSURacerDT55]

10 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

2. Anthony Miller WR

"A lot of people like him, but I keep seeing him mocked in the 2nd-3rd round. I have him as a top 20 player in the class. He runs elite routes, catches in traffic like a dude much bigger than he actually is, and has the speed and agility to separate from press coverage. He reminds me of Antonio Brown, but that comparison is obviously pretty rich in nature given Brown is one of the GOAT WR's. I expect him to become a consistent 1,000 yard WR in the NFL."

I think I watched like 3 games to specifically watch him, great player but always missed snaps because of some type of nagging injury, was disappointed by that.

 

10 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

6. Jerome Baker LB

"He's so talented. He's got elite lateral speed and unbelievable closing speed working downhill. He needs to improve his instincts, but he flashed the ability to do everything necessary to be a top-flight LB. He has the versatility to play any LB spot too. Can't imagine him not being successful in some capacity, as I fully expect his instincts to improve with time. He needs to play with better pacing to his game and not be so aggressive if he's going to be a WLB prospect. I think he learns how to do that and ends up being one of the better linebackers in the NFL.

I really wouldn't listen to guy's assessment who don't know the whole story on Baker, THERE IS A STORY BEHIND HIS POOR 2017 season, and these same guys were all in on him in 2016. He's an athletic-off ball linebacker who plays in space, these people are projecting him as if he is a neckroll wearing middle baker. I guarantee scouts/coaches know the lowdown on his situation and will see the true value of him, He'll be a better pro than he is a college player. The talent is there....

 

10 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

10. DaShawn Hand DT

"Hand is a collegiate disappointment, but he's a freak of nature. With his size, he shouldn't be that fast. I don't want to call him Chris Jones because Jones had more flashes than Hand did, but on talent alone, Hand is a 1st rounder all day. His technique sucks and his effort has been questioned, but if you can hone in his skills, he's going to be a superstar as a 3-tech or even better, as a 3-4 5-technique."

To be frank, I'm not sure he is in love with football, he physically looks like a dog but may have the heart of a kitten. I just don't like his temperament, I hate his hustle, he just has a Vernon Gholston vibe to me. In theory him at 3-tech would be fabulous but what's the point if he isn't going to be motivated.

 

[BleedTheClock]

5 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

Look at 293 lbs. he will have to make a living as a rush DT who can get to the QB and get sacks. In college, where are the sacks, he practically in 3 years had very few and that alone does not bode well for a pro career. He'll get a look in round 5 or 6! 

Put on the tape. He's constantly in the face of the QB. Looking at sack numbers isn't going to tell you the story on any DL prospect.

[MKnight82]

12 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

5. Kurt Benkert QB

"I still think he's a franchise QB. He's got every physical tool you need and lit up some of the best defenses in the country throughout his career. Not much talent around him, but he still spread it around the field and demonstrated elite potential. He was wildly inconsistent and played poorly against some bad teams, but his good game tapes are spectacular. I thought for sure he'd be getting some late 1st round buzz as the process went along, but it appears that he's still entrenched in day 3. I think he's at least worth a 2nd round pick. Reminds me of Jimmy Garoppolo."

Not sure what games you watched, but as a UVA fan I don't think he's an NFL QB.  I wouldn't even spend a 7th rounder on him.  

[Jlash]

16 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Not sure what games you watched, but as a UVA fan I don't think he's an NFL QB.  I wouldn't even spend a 7th rounder on him.  

Kid's dad is a tattoo artist though. Free ink for the whole team is worth a 7th.

[tom cody]

Thanks for posting this. Davenport is a guy I think could do well. Can see him going in Round 1. 

[BleedTheClock]

34 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Not sure what games you watched, but as a UVA fan I don't think he's an NFL QB.  I wouldn't even spend a 7th rounder on him.  

Saw him play UConn, Miami, Georgia Tech, and North Carolina. And then I saw him suck poop against Virginia Tech.

Saw him play Louisville, Miami, and Virginia Tech last year. Last year's Virginia Tech game makes him look like the world's worst QB, but I think there are less stinkers than there were good performances that I saw. He's got a lot of tape I haven't jumped into yet, but I am not anti-Benkert by any stretch of the imagination. I think he's going to be a good NFL QB.

[BleedTheClock]

Just now, tom cody said:

Thanks for posting this. Davenport is a guy I think could do well. Can see him going in Round 1. 

I'd be utterly shocked if he didn't, as would most people. I just think he SHOULD go in the top 5-10, but I see him consistently in the 20's. I think that's really low for a guy with that much talent.

[goldfishwars]

7 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Fred Warner: Can anyone talk me down on this guy?  He gives me flashes of Telvin Smith type upside as a 4-3 WILL.  Has that same ability to fly sideline to sideline to make big plays, and does it with some urgency and violence of action.  One of my favourite players in this draft.  I know the scheme has "protected" him a little bit by simplifying things to often let him just run and chase...but isn't that what the best NFL defenses are doing for their own playmaking run and chase LBers?

I wish the Patriots were, we might actually see the occasional TFL. 

[MKnight82]

25 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

Saw him play UConn, Miami, Georgia Tech, and North Carolina. And then I saw him suck poop against Virginia Tech.

Saw him play Louisville, Miami, and Virginia Tech last year. Last year's Virginia Tech game makes him look like the world's worst QB, but I think there are less stinkers than there were good performances that I saw. He's got a lot of tape I haven't jumped into yet, but I am not anti-Benkert by any stretch of the imagination. I think he's going to be a good NFL QB.

He literally will throw a pass into the dirt on 3rd and 5, then come out on the next series and sail a ball a yard over the WRs head.  He doesn't have the accuracy to be a professional QB.