Who is the (second) best coach in the NFL?

[DingoLadd]

9 hours ago, Danger said:

More seasons of choking, or fewer seasons with more Super Bowl victories? 

In all seriousness though, I'm not sure how you can say Zimmer over Pederson at this point in time given the shalacking the Eagles gave the Vikings in the NFC championship game with their backup QB among various other injuries they sustained this season.

Personal bias plus the rule of "everything comes crashing back down to earth" I want to see if Pederson can repeat the success of last year before I crown him above veteran coaches like Zimmer, Carroll etc. I'll fully admit he out coached the vikings but one games does not dictate an entire coaching career. 

 

[EaglesPeteC]

We all know the top 3 qualifications of a great coach are a strong dad jeans game, a sweet, silvery mid part and giant balls. 

[JAF-N72EX]

3 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said:

We all know the top 3 qualifications of a great coach are a strong dad (genes) game, a (sweaty) silvery mid part and giant balls. 

I may or may not have read this completely wrong.

 

[JAF-N72EX]

4 hours ago, EaglesPeteC said:

Im just here for another Rams/Eagles fan fight

 

It's not much of fight when your QB sucks for one year and plays well in the second. Goff has............oh wait.

[stl4life07]

4 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It's not much of fight when your QB sucks for one year and plays well in the second. Goff has............oh wait.

Confused lol. But thanks for reminding me how much Fisher ruined the Rams in terms of coaching lol.

[stl4life07]

12 hours ago, BAConrad said:

No doubt that in a year from now, we could be sitting here discussing the Eagles and Rams as the two SB winning teams of the previous two years. I think you guys have the potential to absolutely win it. My feeling is that whoever can manage to win the ridiculously tough NFC should handily beat whomever they face in the Superb Owl. 

But the thing that annoys me is that right now, all it is for LA is that: potential. But people are already crowning McVay as the best offensive mind in the game and even some saying hes the 2nd best behind BB....but the thing is, he hasn't shown that he deserves to be crowned anything like that yet. Dont get me wrong, he did an incredible job last season.

But people also like to act like the feat of improving the offense as much as he did from 1 year to the next was way more impressive than in reality. The Rams should have been significantly better before he was there but Jeff Fisher is so bad..and even so, they managed to win 7 games with him. Its not like McVay came in and just took some dirtpile team from worst to best. And I also want to see him face some adversity this season because we have no idea how he responds to it yet. IIRC the Rams offense, minus missing Robert Woods for some time, was one of the healthiest in the league (and the team in general). 

Im not denying that based off of what we saw, McVay can be one of the best one day. He just isn't yet. His season was not as impressive as Pederson's was and that is just as close to fact as it comes. Which is my main point....that McVay cant be called one of the best coaches yet until he proves himself. One year and 0-1 home playoff record wont cut it. 

Great head coaches are the ones who dont let adversity affect them. They win no matter the circumstances. Its what separates guys like that moron Jason Garrett aka the Clapper from ones like Payton or Carroll or BB or Pederson.

I can’t speak for other Rams fans but as for myself, I feel like people can’t hsve it both ways. Last offseason people blasted the Rams for hiring the youngest coach in NFL history. I kept seeing all the young head coaching and how their track record were so bad. Many people said the Rams overpaid for Woods in FA because he hasn’t proven anything in Buffalo. Many thought Whitworth only signed with the Rams was to cash in big before he retired. Many thought the Rams had a bad draft. I saw even people on here had the Rams draft ranked so low. They also bashed the Rams for not even drafting an OL prospect.

Even heading into the regular season, the Rams got off to a 3-1, many didn’t buy in. The second the Rams lost to Seattle in Week 5, people already was saying “I told you so”. The Rams had a month away from home. That was adversity. The Rams was the most traveled team in the NFL and during that month stretch (at Jags, Cards in London, BYE, at Giants) that was I think the most traveled miles by one team in  NFL history. The Rams dominated those games. People still didn’t buy in. They lost to the Vikings, people were quick to say “I told you so”. The Rams best the Saints the next week. The build in excuse was the Saints didn’t have their cornerbacks. They knew they wasn’t going to have them days before the game. I’ve only heard one people mentioned the reason the Vikings blew the game open in the 4th quarter against the Rams was because the Rams lost two of their top 3 corners in the game and had to put in an undrafted rookie to cover Theilen. So it can’t work both ways for the Saints and not the Rams. Even in the Seattle game everyone knew Seattle was dealing with so many injuries people still question heavily could the Rams win. Funny thing is when the won, some of those same people said the Rams took advantage of a beat up Seahawks team. 

I say all that to say that, people doubted the Rams from the 2nd they hired McVay until obviously they clinched the division title in Week 16. So how I feel about McVay has much more to do with the fact that nobody should heavily scrutinize a guy before seeing what he really can do. The Washington fans loved McVay and knew what he could do and knew what they would be missing. Same thing as Washington team. I’ll say the same thing about Pederson which a lot of people dismissed him as a possible good coach even though he comes from the Reid coaching tree. One thing I do know, I’m not bashing the Eagles unless it’s friendly beefing up the rivalry. The Eagles and Rams were both blasted by many for trading up for Wentz and Goff and I’m glad to see both teams with stability and proven all the doubters wrong. We take no prisoners even in the tough NFC. Because you are right, whomever comes out of the NFC I think will more likely will win the Superbowl. 

[Danger]

10 hours ago, DingoLadd said:

Personal bias plus the rule of "everything comes crashing back down to earth" I want to see if Pederson can repeat the success of last year before I crown him above veteran coaches like Zimmer, Carroll etc. I'll fully admit he out coached the vikings but one games does not dictate an entire coaching career. 

 

I'd hardly call Zimmer a "Veteran" yet. Caroll that's all fine and Dandy.

Zimmer has had 2 good seasons, 1 meh season, and 1 bad season.

[Shanedorf]

12 hours ago, DingoLadd said:

Personal bias plus the rule of "everything comes crashing back down to earth" I want to see if Pederson can repeat the success of last year before I crown him above veteran coaches like Zimmer, Carroll etc. I'll fully admit he out coached the vikings but one games does not dictate an entire coaching career. 

 

Zimmer's a very talented coach and a certainly top defensive mind, but I'm not ready with the anointing oil just yet for a coach with a 1-2 playoff record in minny - And that 1 win took a miracle from Diggs. The NFCCG blow-out is another big mark against him. Losing the game is one thing, getting blown off the field is something else. The 0-5 playoff record as Cincy DC and an 0-2 playoff mark in Dallas as their DC doesn't help his case either.

Mike Zimmer was also the Captain of a minny team that started out the 2015 season 5-0 and then cratered to finish 8-8. Very good coach with a bright future, but his production to-date certainly doesn't suggest "the 2nd best coach in the NFL."   Especially over guys who have won a Super Bowl

I think another Parcells protege, Sean Payton has the credentials and track record for consideration here.

[DingoLadd]

3 hours ago, Danger said:

I'd hardly call Zimmer a "Veteran" yet. Caroll that's all fine and Dandy.

Zimmer has had 2 good seasons, 1 meh season, and 1 bad season.

Compared to Pederson he''s had a lot more coaching experience. 

1 hour ago, Shanedorf said:

Zimmer's a very talented coach and a certainly top defensive mind, but I'm not ready with the anointing oil just yet for a coach with a 1-2 playoff record in minny - And that 1 win took a miracle from Diggs. The NFCCG blow-out is another big mark against him. Losing the game is one thing, getting blown off the field is something else. The 0-5 playoff record as Cincy DC and an 0-2 playoff mark in Dallas as their DC doesn't help his case either.

Mike Zimmer was also the Captain of a minny team that started out the 2015 season 5-0 and then cratered to finish 8-8. Very good coach with a bright future, but his production to-date certainly doesn't suggest "the 2nd best coach in the NFL."   Especially over guys who have won a Super Bowl

I think another Parcells protege, Sean Payton has the credentials and track record for consideration here.

Sean Payton hasn't been a top 5 HC for a long time... He had a nice rebound year bur the fact he's fielded such horrible defenses for nearly half a decade leave a massive black mark on him IMO plus the Bountygate thing, top 5 offensive mind? Sure but he's not a top 5 coach anymore. 

Gun to my head I'd say Carroll overall considering he's the only coach to make it to multiple super bowls (this decade) that isn't bellicheck, 

[Danger]

Just now, DingoLadd said:

Compared to Pederson he''s had a lot more coaching experience. 

Sean Payton hasn't been a top 5 HC for a long time... He had a nice rebound year bur the fact he's fielded such horrible defenses for nearly half a decade leave a massive black mark on him IMO plus the Bountygate thing, top 5 offensive mind? Sure but he's not a top 5 coach anymore. 

Gun to my head I'd say Carroll overall considering he's the only coach to make it to multiple super bowls (this decade) that isn't bellicheck, 

Sean Payton's biggest fault is being unable to find a capable defensive mind to go with him. He's been Top 5 in offense every season he's been with the Saints (6th in 2011 though). You'll notice that the almost directly the Saints being an average team or a great team depends on how well the defense is performing because the offense has never been a concern, something Payton has full hands on. 

[Malfatron]

if i could pick, i would take Zimmer 

 

[DingoLadd]

52 minutes ago, Danger said:

Sean Payton's biggest fault is being unable to find a capable defensive mind to go with him. He's been Top 5 in offense every season he's been with the Saints (6th in 2011 though). You'll notice that the almost directly the Saints being an average team or a great team depends on how well the defense is performing because the offense has never been a concern, something Payton has full hands on. 

I'd rather have an elite defensive coach (Zimmer) than an elite offensive coach, I won't deny Payton is very good at what he does but he clearly has deficiencies as a HC.

 

[cddolphin]

It's hard to shake the feeling of recency bias but I'm struggling to come up with a great argument for someone outside of Pederson. Zimmer has a lot of keys you can hit on and he has more longevity but in a 'what have you done for me lately' league you have to take into account his loss to Pederson in the playoffs.

Guys like Carroll, Payton, and McCarthy always pop up in threads like this but would you put forth any of their names based on their last 2-3 seasons only? Maybe Payton. 

[Shanedorf]

1 hour ago, DingoLadd said:

I'd rather have an elite defensive coach (Zimmer) than an elite offensive coach, I won't deny Payton is very good at what he does but he clearly has deficiencies as a HC.

HC deficiencies...what an interesting topic

Let's explore further. Mike Zimmer entered the playoffs with THE Top Rated defense in the entire league and is an elite defensive coach

His team held a 17-0 lead at home at halftime vs the Saints. Yet over the next 6 quarters of playoff football, the elite defensive HC and his Top Rated defense gave up 55 points. And got blown out of the water in humiliating fashion in the NFC CG -  to a less experienced head coach in Pederson who was playing his back- up QB and back- up LT. Zimmer's defense and team completely collapsed and he was totally outcoached -

Yet Super Bowl Champion Sean Payton's deficiencies as a HC are the ones you're most concerned about ?

[DingoLadd]

12 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

HC deficiencies...what an interesting topic

Let's explore further. Mike Zimmer entered the playoffs with THE Top Rated defense in the entire league and is an elite defensive coach

His team held a 17-0 lead at home at halftime vs the Saints. Yet over the next 6 quarters of playoff football, the elite defensive HC and his Top Rated defense gave up 55 points. And got blown out of the water in humiliating fashion in the NFC CG -  to a less experienced head coach in Pederson who was playing his back- up QB and back- up LT. Zimmer's defense and team completely collapsed and he was totally outcoached -

Yet Super Bowl Champion Sean Payton's deficiencies as a HC are the ones you're most concerned about ?

Zimmer went up against the best team in the NFC in their home stadium and lost, Zimmer was playing with his backup QB and RB as well I fail to see how losing to the best team in the NFL is a bad thing, there's only so much you can do as a HC some games just get away from you.

Sean Payton has fielded literally some of the worst defenses in NFL history so yes that should be more concerning than Mike Zimmer's number one defense having a bad game against a great opponent. 

I've made my points there's nothing more to discuss here.