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Draft Discussion 4.0

NudeTayne

By NudeTayne
in Cleveland Browns

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BleedTheClock

BleedTheClock

Posted
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Just now, bosko1616 said:

Is anyone else worried about the rumored interest in Antonio Callaway dudes Uber talented but with Gordon on the team already I feel like this could be a poison pill 

Doesn't bother me. I think Callaway is a piece of crap, but it's not like we'd be wasting a draft pick on him. He'd be a 5th-7th round pick and would be held fully responsible for his actions. If he had one slip-up, cut him.

And if Gordon has handled himself through the last few months, he'll be fine. I guarantee you there are tons of guys around Gordon that still regularly smoke weed and drink. On the Browns roster. I don't think Callaway is going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

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TheeRealDeal

TheeRealDeal

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55 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I love that he had very good production in college against good teams, two double digit sack seasons and most importantly he had great production despite not being a polished product yet. I love that he is not one dimensional as just a pass rusher considering he is also very good against the run. I love the combination of him being an elite college player off of his individual talent but also still has room to grow in terms of technique. I also love his versatility which will allow the Browns to get speed rushing packages on the field including Ogbah.

I dont hate Denzel Ward at all, I think he is very good. BUT for the same reasons you view Chubb as a B+ level player, I view Ward. He has a size disadvantage for starters and he will never be able to fix that. Its okay if you are undersized but play 'big' like prime Joe Haden did. However, Ward doesnt play big consistently. He plays his size leaning on technique more than physicality and in the NFL it will allow him to be targeted by bigger WRs. He got absolutely abused by Simmie Cobbs Jr. in Indiana on back shoulder throws high on multiple occasions up and down the field. If Cobbs is doing that to him -- Imagine trying to defend AJ Green in the redzone.

I would like to see more consistent physicality from Ward given his size disadvantage. He is a sound tackler going low, but unless he puts on 5-7lbs, he will get bodied by bigger WRs in the NFL which is why I think his ideal fit is that of a slot corner until he can prove himself outside against AJ Greens of the world. I think he has the ability and talent to be great, but it will take a year or two to achieve that **if ** he does. I also view Marshon Lattimore as a better prospect and player. He went #11 and people are talking about Ward at #4.

Lastly, Chubb simply plays a more important position. Its easier to find good corners in the draft/free agency than pass rushers. 

Box score scouting at its finest and it makes you look like a biblical donkey.  Simmie Cobbs caught exactly 1 pass on Ward all night. For some reason Ward never even turned to locate and defend the pass and it burnt him. It had nothing to do with size advantage either I am 5'3 and could have jumped high enough to defend that pass. Either way Denzel Ward is never going to when with physicality or match up with well in the red zone with guys like Dez Bryant or A.J. Green. The reason you want Denzel Ward is because of his elite mirror skills, quick feet and even his low center of gravity because he will be able to take away guys like Antoinio Brown, DeSean Jackson, Odell Beckham ect. The reason those guys are so dangerous and so good at creating separation is because they are so good at the top of their route. The can make breaks on a dime and accelerate even quicker. Big physical corners like Patrick Peterson and Richard Sherman cannot slow down and restart as quickly but a player like Ward with his lower center of gravity and quick feet will be able to mirror much better.

He will never be the best match up against every receivers in the league but neither is Sherman, Peterson or Peters and neither was Sanders or Green. It all comes down to good defensive coaches find and utilizing the best match ups. Good teams are good teams because they have multiple different skills sets with in position groups and CB is probably the most important position group to have multiple different strengths.

My options list would include 1. Trading Down and 2. Bradley Chubb before Denzel Ward but to write Ward completely off in the manor you just did especially with the lazy scouting report of one game is the very definition of ignorance. I would hope football people would be smart enough to avoid hiring you for any position except maybe chain gain.

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bruceb

bruceb

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27 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

I would hope football people would be smart enough to avoid hiring you for any position except maybe chain gain.

Could you possibly vote in the 1/4 thread so that I can know how to evaluate your harsh judgment?

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AkronsWitness

AkronsWitness

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49 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

Box score scouting at its finest and it makes you look like a biblical donkey.  Simmie Cobbs caught exactly 1 pass on Ward all night. For some reason Ward never even turned to locate and defend the pass and it burnt him. It had nothing to do with size advantage either I am 5'3 and could have jumped high enough to defend that pass. Either way Denzel Ward is never going to when with physicality or match up with well in the red zone with guys like Dez Bryant or A.J. Green. The reason you want Denzel Ward is because of his elite mirror skills, quick feet and even his low center of gravity because he will be able to take away guys like Antoinio Brown, DeSean Jackson, Odell Beckham ect. The reason those guys are so dangerous and so good at creating separation is because they are so good at the top of their route. The can make breaks on a dime and accelerate even quicker. Big physical corners like Patrick Peterson and Richard Sherman cannot slow down and restart as quickly but a player like Ward with his lower center of gravity and quick feet will be able to mirror much better.

He will never be the best match up against every receivers in the league but neither is Sherman, Peterson or Peters and neither was Sanders or Green. It all comes down to good defensive coaches find and utilizing the best match ups. Good teams are good teams because they have multiple different skills sets with in position groups and CB is probably the most important position group to have multiple different strengths.

My options list would include 1. Trading Down and 2. Bradley Chubb before Denzel Ward but to write Ward completely off in the manor you just did especially with the lazy scouting report of one game is the very definition of ignorance. I would hope football people would be smart enough to avoid hiring you for any position except maybe chain gain.

You obviously didnt read my other posts. Im a fan of Ward. I was just making a point that #4 overall for Ward who isnt a homerun prospect is too pricey. Thats all I was saying. If they want to trade to 6-10 range Im fine with Ward. But to use a top 4 pick on a CB who wouldnt even be a top 3 CB prospect in the past 2 years is paying too much at that price point.

In simple terms, #4 for Ward would be considered a 'reach' IMO and paying more than his value is when Chubb/Barkley will be on the board who both are considered better prospects. If the consensus is that we need a #1 CB then I wouldnt mind trading back a few picks and taking him there while getting more picks in return.

Denzel Ward is a very good player, but in no draft is he considered a top 5 selection especially when everybody and their mother is scrambling for QBs in the top 4.

 

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TheeRealDeal

TheeRealDeal

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44 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

You obviously didnt read my other posts. Im a fan of Ward. I was just making a point that #4 overall for Ward who isnt a homerun prospect is too pricey. Thats all I was saying. If they want to trade to 6-10 range Im fine with Ward. But to use a top 4 pick on a CB who wouldnt even be a top 3 CB prospect in the past 2 years is paying too much at that price point.

In simple terms, #4 for Ward would be considered a 'reach' IMO and paying more than his value is when Chubb/Barkley will be on the board who both are considered better prospects. If the consensus is that we need a #1 CB then I wouldnt mind trading back a few picks and taking him there while getting more picks in return.

Denzel Ward is a very good player, but in no draft is he considered a top 5 selection especially when everybody and their mother is scrambling for QBs in the top 4.

 

No, if that is all you were saying then I would have left you alone because I 100% agree. I like Ward far more than you do and I still don't want him in the Top 4. Simply better prospects on the board. You didn't simply leave it at that at all. You tried to justify yourself with completely ignorant and erroneous comments that Simmie Cobbs absolutely abused him on multiple occasions because you remember that Cobbs had 11 catches for 200 yards. You, however, did not take the time to even watch to see if it was true, or if you did then you were simply bold face lying to beef your argument. If it were not for that ridiculously lazy attempt at scouting I would have left your post alone.

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TheeRealDeal

TheeRealDeal

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1 hour ago, bruceb said:

Could you possibly vote in the 1/4 thread so that I can know how to evaluate your harsh judgment?

Sure. On Tuesday. Also what I think will happen and what I want to happen are two completely different things, so I will even be so kind as to post both of them.

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