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A Song of Ice and Fire


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40 minutes ago, Heimdallr said:

I will be absolutely shocked if GRRM ever finishes the next book. I don't believe he has ANY intention to. 

My guess is he's a victim of his own success.  So many people have guessed so many of the twists, and the show has been such a runaway success, it's easy to feel like you're not putting out your best work in that circumstance.  I'm thinking it's been rewritten extensively.

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4 hours ago, Heimdallr said:

I will be absolutely shocked if GRRM ever finishes the next book. I don't believe he has ANY intention to. 

I think this is definitely the most outcome. Hes made his money and has shown zero drive to finish this thing up. I'm not sure if he is just afraid of potential backlash on anything he puts out but he seems very content to not finish the story.

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1 hour ago, LeeEvans said:

I think this is definitely the most outcome. Hes made his money and has shown zero drive to finish this thing up. I'm not sure if he is just afraid of potential backlash on anything he puts out but he seems very content to not finish the story.

I don't think Martin has ever feared backlash with his writing. I just think he has lost interest.

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7 hours ago, JonStark said:

They said that she was the one for about 4 years or something like that, dating back to when GRRM was still working on the show. So I highly doubt that's the case.

Also, with the next books being WOW and DOS, it looks like it may follow the same path where the story wraps up with the throne instead of the walkers.

No it kinda is. They acknowledged the prophecy in the show itself and Arya fits none of it's description for the hero. In fact in the story she is not even a hero, she is a force of vengeance which is part of her appeal.

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10 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

No it kinda is. They acknowledged the prophecy in the show itself and Arya fits none of it's description for the hero. In fact in the story she is not even a hero, she is a force of vengeance which is part of her appeal.

I mean at this point we'll just have to wait (forever) and see. I feel like the main plots will be the same, with the books going into detail and adding more sideplots to the mix. There's really no point in debating it until the books actually come out, I'm just going based on the info we have at hand. 

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11 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

No it kinda is. They acknowledged the prophecy in the show itself and Arya fits none of it's description for the hero. In fact in the story she is not even a hero, she is a force of vengeance which is part of her appeal.

Prophecies can be wrong.

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5 hours ago, seminoles1 said:

Prophecies can be wrong.

Prophecies can't be wrong. They are A moment in time that has to happen. And Martin had already invested far too much into the one in the books for it to be a casual line. The prophecy is specific, both in the show and in the books. The only thing that can be wrong about a prophecy is how it's interpreted as the Red Priestess has shown.

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6 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Prophecies can't be wrong. They are A moment in time that has to happen. And Martin had already invested far too much into the one in the books for it to be a casual line. The prophecy is specific, both in the show and in the books. The only thing that can be wrong about a prophecy is how it's interpreted as the Red Priestess has shown.

What? Prophecies can absolutely be wrong. The definition of prophecy is "A prediction"...

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9 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Prophecies can't be wrong. They are A moment in time that has to happen. And Martin had already invested far too much into the one in the books for it to be a casual line. The prophecy is specific, both in the show and in the books. The only thing that can be wrong about a prophecy is how it's interpreted as the Red Priestess has shown.

Again, we are talking about an anti-religion writer, and you are saying that the prophecy must come to pass.  My money is on the prophecy being horse manure and having no actual impact on the outcome of the story at all.  

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5 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

Again, we are talking about an anti-religion writer, and you are saying that the prophecy must come to pass.  My money is on the prophecy being horse manure and having no actual impact on the outcome of the story at all.  

I would highly doubt that.  Spending so much time on it means that it will mean something, even if he subverts that meaning.  It's bad storycraft to spend so much time and energy on a total red herring.  There's been lots of textual evidence that the prophecy won't be exactly what we think it will be, but that doesn't mean it's nothing.

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Just now, Superman(DH23) said:

Again, we are talking about an anti-religion writer, and you are saying that the prophecy must come to pass.  My money is on the prophecy being horse manure and having no actual impact on the outcome of the story at all.  

You'd be wasting your money.

Prophecies have nothing to do with religion either. They are convenient for certain religions that's all.

In a story that's already confirmed to have two other worldly powers like the Lord of Light and the Great Other. The Many Faced God that grants it's followers the ability to wear the faces of others so long as they carry out the mercy of death. As well as the old God's of the Children of the Forest adopted by the First Men that have produced Green Seers, the White Walkers appearently in the show, and numerous other things.

Martin has pretty much built this entire series on political intrigue, all of these brilliant characters and only a select few know that there is another war that has been going on for ten's of thousands of years between a God of Fire and Life and a God of Cold and Death. Not to mention all the irony that goes along with that. Martin if anything has shown that people allow themselves to be fooled by religion but faith still very much plays a part in life.

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15 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

What? Prophecies can absolutely be wrong. The definition of prophecy is "A prediction"...

Its a general way of describing a prophecy. But you predicting the next Super Bowl winner is not you making a prophecy otherwise there would be no point to the word and prediction and prophecy would be the exact same thing. Prophecy in general though is seen as a connection for a event or series of events given to them by another power, usually other worldly and is interpreted as such to try and "predict" what the message is.

Now what Millessandre did with Stannis. That was a "prediction" on the prophecy of the Prince that was Promised. When she asks R'hllor to show her Azor Ahai and all she sees is Jon Snow in the flames that is the Prophecy. A message of an event that has not occurred yet. Like also when she sees Jon Snow surrounded by skulls. That is a prophecy of doom. Her God is trying to tell her he will be in danger. Which turned out to be true.

Besides even if you stuck to the most literal translation of words. Language itself is fluid, thus new words being added and words in general taking on whole new meanings. In a sci or fantasy series, words themselves will change to meet the requirements of the world around them.

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24 minutes ago, skywindO2 said:

I doubt the prophecy's are wrong, just misrepresented.

Melisandre is the main source of them in both the books and show and she's hilariously stupid at figuring out what they mean.

Well the prophecies are not completely clear. But Milessandre is not the only source keep in mind the Warlocks tower or Patchface.

I think Martin's point as SupermanDH23 pointed while being anti-religion is that people will want to believe something so much that they will fool themselves into thinking they are right such as her believing Stannis is the Lord of Light.

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