The Baker Mayfield Conundrum

[Scout]

On 4/21/2018 at 3:57 PM, VanS said:

This guy also had Alvin Kamara as the #1 RB last year.  And we all know RBs transition faster into the NFL than any other position.

Elite physical attributes >>> Elite collegiate statistical production

And this has what to do with quarterback?

[BleedTheClock]

3 hours ago, buddy_z34 said:

Im not

I don't know how to help you then. That's a hilarious generalization and a straight up terrible comp. Good luck trying to make that player comparison stick.

[buddy_z34]

1 minute ago, BleedTheClock said:

I don't know how to help you then. That's a hilarious generalization and a straight up terrible comp. Good luck trying to make that player comparison stick.

I just feel like Manziel, Baker will be out the league in a few years. The kid has the same ego problems Manziel had. Plus he doesnt study playbooks. I mean its possibly only the biggest interviews of your life an he half a**ed it. Gets arrested, sideline antics. Plays in a QB friendly system. To me he hasnt shown the ability to learn from his constant mistakes off the field. Which is what caused Manziels downfall. 

[MistaBohmbastic]

1 hour ago, buddy_z34 said:

I just feel like Manziel, Baker will be out the league in a few years. The kid has the same ego problems Manziel had. Plus he doesnt study playbooks. I mean its possibly only the biggest interviews of your life an he half a**ed it. Gets arrested, sideline antics. Plays in a QB friendly system. To me he hasnt shown the ability to learn from his constant mistakes off the field. Which is what caused Manziels downfall. 

Wow dude. You have no idea how off base you are...

If there's ONE thing that makes Baker the complete POLAR OPPOSITE of Johnny, it's work ethic. Dude mastered the Oklahoma playbook in TWO DAYS! That's absurd! I'm assuming you're referring to the Chargers meeting? A team that he knew would not be taking him? Sure, it was arrogant of him to say that, but it's still more than Johnny could have ever stated. When it comes to the X's and O's, Baker is a MASTERMIND, Johnny couldn't tell you the difference between an X and O.

Those sideline antics are definitely over the top, they still aren't evidence that Baker is going to become addicted to the party lifestyle and flame out. If he's out of the league, partying is NOT going to be the reason, dude. He was arrested once, true, but he cleaned up his act off the field. I am not a fan of some of the fiery antics he does, but they are nowhere near Johnny's.

And a QB friendly system, sure. It helped. But Mayfield also was the most accurate QB in college football in tight window throws. He put up INSANE numbers, record setting ones in fact, two years in a row! You're going to tell me that his capabilities had NOTHING to do with that? Get the hell outta here dude.

Look, I'm not one of those guys who says Baker is a guaranteed stud, but to think he's a clone of Johnny, that he has no chance of success...that is just shameful for me to read. It's a ridiculously lazy comparison.

[Tugboat]

23 hours ago, pnies20 said:

What had happened was... front offices are skeptical of short QBs. I think there’s quite a substantial stigma attached. They’ve gotten a chance to really dig into him with private workouts and interviews to see he’s worthy of a high selection. 

 

IMO he’s a top 10 player but cringe when people say Browns want him at 1. Clearly not the best QB in the class.

I think this is a lot of where the "shift" in perspectives has come from.  There's a particularly high degree of inherent skepticism for short QBs and spread QBs to overcome.  Mayfield has had the double whammy of both factors to dispel, which can take time.  A lot of the big, tall "prototype" pocket passer types tend to get the benefit of the doubt, people going in with big expectations and then tend to tear them down from there.  Whereas the shorter non-prototype and spread offense guys start from a much lower level of hype scrutiny when they're not being considered as seriously because of those biases going in.  Then they're sort of built up from there if they continue to excel, and excelling is what Mayfield did.  At some point, it becomes way too hard to overlook the success there.  That's when a lot of people start to put them under the scouting microscope for real.

I still don't think he's a Top-10 prospect in the draft...but at some point, if you need a QB and you see Mayfield and think he could be a franchise calibre signal caller, sometimes you have to reach.  It's madness, but it's the way the league and the draft are nowadays.  There's plenty to still be concerned about with Mayfield (on and off the field), but he also has a clearly NFL calibre arm, did a terrific job within that system of efficiently putting the ball in his receivers hands, and has the sort of mobility and ability to scramble and buy time and manipulate throwing lanes that it takes for a shorter QB to succeed in the NFL.  Plus, there's a degree of competitiveness that makes it a bit easier to believe he's going to be one of the guys who overcomes his obstacles to succeed.

 

It just takes time for a guy with multiple substantial flags before you even get to the tape (size, system, behaviour) to erode those skeptical biases many people go into the process with.

[Iamcanadian]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:58 PM, VanS said:

Well I was the only person anywhere that came close to predicting his impact in the NFL.  I not only had him ranked as the #1 RB in a loaded class ahead of more highly touted prospects like Leonard Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, and Dalvin Cook.  But I also said exactly the type of player he would be.  I said he would have a Marshall Faulk like impact on the NFL as a dominant runner and receiver.  As a rookie, he led the league in YPC with 6.1 YPC on over 700 yards rushing as well as 800 yards receiving.  He was also 2nd in the NFL in total TDs with 14.  Not quite peak Marshall Faulk, but given his limited touches, its about as close to Marshall Faulk as we've seen in the last 15 years.

Also note that RB is the position where we see great players typically dominate right off the bat.   Other positions like QB and WR take time.  Thus, it didn't surprise me that of all the "bold picks" I made last year, that it was my pick on who the best RB in the class was gonna be that panned out first.  

But every time you are wrong on a prospect, you say wait till next season before we know for sure, so should we not be waiting to see what Kamara does next season to see if he is indeed a star!!!

Even given that, Kamara was definitely a high ranking RB coming out of college, so it is hardly a shock that he succeeded, however your insistence on Dobbs was way off the beaten path and so far is off the beaten path towards success as are a # of you predicts.

If I throw a ton of mud at a wall, some of it is bound to stay and it says nothing about the draftnik. Wippy do, you guessed that a 3rd round RB would be successful in a league where a large # of 2nd and 3rd round picked RB's have been successful.

I do not mind you making your predictions, but just because you got one of many right, means squat in the draft process, everybody can do that, even the guys paid to figure it out.

Let's have a challenge so we can all see your possible greatness. Give us a mock draft based on who will succeed at the next level and who won't Just list your top 32 for success and for failure and if you come close, I will defend your ability forever against those that criticize you. If you fail, we never hear about Kamara again!!!

[buddy_z34]

10 hours ago, MistaBohmbastic said:

Wow dude. You have no idea how off base you are...

If there's ONE thing that makes Baker the complete POLAR OPPOSITE of Johnny, it's work ethic. Dude mastered the Oklahoma playbook in TWO DAYS! That's absurd! I'm assuming you're referring to the Chargers meeting? A team that he knew would not be taking him? Sure, it was arrogant of him to say that, but it's still more than Johnny could have ever stated. When it comes to the X's and O's, Baker is a MASTERMIND, Johnny couldn't tell you the difference between an X and O.

Those sideline antics are definitely over the top, they still aren't evidence that Baker is going to become addicted to the party lifestyle and flame out. If he's out of the league, partying is NOT going to be the reason, dude. He was arrested once, true, but he cleaned up his act off the field. I am not a fan of some of the fiery antics he does, but they are nowhere near Johnny's.

And a QB friendly system, sure. It helped. But Mayfield also was the most accurate QB in college football in tight window throws. He put up INSANE numbers, record setting ones in fact, two years in a row! You're going to tell me that his capabilities had NOTHING to do with that? Get the hell outta here dude.

Look, I'm not one of those guys who says Baker is a guaranteed stud, but to think he's a clone of Johnny, that he has no chance of success...that is just shameful for me to read. It's a ridiculously lazy comparison.

Im in the same boat the same way Ryan Leaf thinks that Baker is going down the same path as himself an Manziel did. Arrogant an egotistical. 

Insane numbers in college is one thing. Many of qbs have put up insane numbers in college in qb friendly systems. But when placed in the nfl theyre overwhelmed. Im not saying he isnt talented. Hell Manziel was talented as well. But it was his ego, the same ego i see in Baker. Who tf cares if the other team doesnt shake your hand before the coin toss. His ego got in the way. How many times in sports has a team not shook hands with the other team after a game? Countless many of times. Did those players act childish like Baker? Oklahoma an the people around him didnt do him any favors by always looking the other way or slapping him on the wrist as punishment. The same thing A&M an officials did for Manziel. 

Im just saying this seems similiar to me. I wouldnt be surprised.

[Superman(DH23)]

There are some striking similarities but also distinct differences between the 2.  The talent is certainly similar and some of the attitude things certainly correlate.  HOWEVER...there were rumblings about Manziels drug issues at A&M, weve heard nothing of the sort about Mayfield.  Manziel made a lot of plays off script and his run around in circles in the pocket style of evasion obviously wasnt going to translate.  Mayfield did play well on script and he showed the ability to manipulate the pocket and keep his eyes downfiels much moreso than JFF

[Chrissooner49er]

12 hours ago, buddy_z34 said:

I just feel like Manziel, Baker will be out the league in a few years. The kid has the same ego problems Manziel had. Plus he doesnt study playbooks. I mean its possibly only the biggest interviews of your life an he half a**ed it. Gets arrested, sideline antics. Plays in a QB friendly system. To me he hasnt shown the ability to learn from his constant mistakes off the field. Which is what caused Manziels downfall. 

Doesn't study playbooks?! You took one comment of Baker's completely out of context, didn't you?! Lincoln Riley and Bob Stoops would never have started a QB who won't study playbooks. He has an incredible work ethic.

Oh, and those who want to point fingers at Baker's performance in the 2nd half of the game vs. Georgia: There were two issues you probably ignored or don't know; 1st, Baker had been fighting a very bad case of the flu for weeks and 2nd, Lincoln Riley made the mistake of getting conservative on Offense in the 2nd half, which put too much pressure on OU's Defense. Those two factors made the difference and allowed Georgia to come back from a double digit deficit to win it.

[buddy_z34]

30 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Doesn't study playbooks?! You took one comment of Baker's completely out of context, didn't you?! Lincoln Riley and Bob Stoops would never have started a QB who won't study playbooks. He has an incredible work ethic.

Oh, and those who want to point fingers at Baker's performance in the 2nd half of the game vs. Georgia: There were two issues you probably ignored or don't know; 1st, Baker had been fighting a very bad case of the flu for weeks and 2nd, Lincoln Riley made the mistake of getting conservative on Offense in the 2nd half, which put too much pressure on OU's Defense. Those two factors made the difference and allowed Georgia to come back from a double digit deficit to win it.

Its a catch 22 with his "incredible" work ethic. If it was sooo incredible then why didnt he study the Chargers playbook?? He cant have this incredible work ethic if the dude went in unprepared for a job interview. An who cares if the chargers werent going to draft him. Why not just cancel the interview then?

[buddy_z34]

53 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said:

There are some striking similarities but also distinct differences between the 2.  The talent is certainly similar and some of the attitude things certainly correlate.  HOWEVER...there were rumblings about Manziels drug issues at A&M, weve heard nothing of the sort about Mayfield.  Manziel made a lot of plays off script and his run around in circles in the pocket style of evasion obviously wasnt going to translate.  Mayfield did play well on script and he showed the ability to manipulate the pocket and keep his eyes downfiels much moreso than JFF

Manziel was such a party boy at A&M. I can tell you that myself. Ive heard firsthand accounts from some friends who went to A&M with him who saw him being out of control. 

Im not talking about on the field issues. Im talking about these guys egos an way of thinking is what i think will be his downfall.

[winitall]

31 minutes ago, buddy_z34 said:

Its a catch 22 with his "incredible" work ethic. If it was sooo incredible then why didnt he study the Chargers playbook?? He cant have this incredible work ethic if the dude went in unprepared for a job interview. An who cares if the chargers werent going to draft him. Why not just cancel the interview then?

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2018/04/18/baker-mayfield-2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks

 

Decent article on Mayfield. You don’t walk on and become a starter quickly if you don’t have a good work ethic. The guy can learn a playbook. 

[Chrissooner49er]

1 hour ago, winitall said:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2018/04/18/baker-mayfield-2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks

 

Decent article on Mayfield. You don’t walk on and become a starter quickly if you don’t have a good work ethic. The guy can learn a playbook. 

It was very good. There is also this interview: Russell Wilson & Baker... 

 

[MistaBohmbastic]

3 hours ago, buddy_z34 said:

Im in the same boat the same way Ryan Leaf thinks that Baker is going down the same path as himself an Manziel did. Arrogant an egotistical. 

Insane numbers in college is one thing. Many of qbs have put up insane numbers in college in qb friendly systems. But when placed in the nfl theyre overwhelmed. Im not saying he isnt talented. Hell Manziel was talented as well. But it was his ego, the same ego i see in Baker. Who tf cares if the other team doesnt shake your hand before the coin toss. His ego got in the way. How many times in sports has a team not shook hands with the other team after a game? Countless many of times. Did those players act childish like Baker? Oklahoma an the people around him didnt do him any favors by always looking the other way or slapping him on the wrist as punishment. The same thing A&M an officials did for Manziel. 

Im just saying this seems similiar to me. I wouldnt be surprised.

Aside from them both being fiery and their size, there is virtually NOTHING in common. Arrogance? Sure, but I would say about 99% of successful QB's are arrogant in one way or another. This isn't some rare trait that will ruin a player's career. Come on dude.

And hell yeah Johnny was talented, he was a remarkable improviser, who thrived on broken plays. Baker, on the other hand, his teammates consider him a coach on the field. His ability to dissect defenses and command the offense is far beyond the norm of your typical college QB.

Bottom line...Both egotistical? Sure, but you clearly have no clue what you're talking about if you think he expresses his attitude in the same way as Johnny, and has the same "issues..." Both talented? Damn straight, but again, in entirely different ways. Johnny was not a connoisseur of the X's and O's, Baker is, PERIOD.

They are nothing alike as people, on and off the field. 

[TheVillain112]

2 hours ago, winitall said:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.si.com/nfl/2018/04/18/baker-mayfield-2018-nfl-draft-quarterbacks

 

Decent article on Mayfield. You don’t walk on and become a starter quickly if you don’t have a good work ethic. The guy can learn a playbook. 

"Mayfield’s intelligence, Riley explains, allowed OU to make weekly adjustments and install new concepts that would have been impossible with anybody else"

Baker to Patriots confirmed...