Broncos QB Battle - Siemian it is

[Broncofan]

55 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I don't think it will come to that. Someone will give something for him. It wont be a great return because the QB needy teams will elect to snag a R1 talent but a team with an aging starter may see Lynch as a viable investment at the cost of a R4 rather than taking a low R2 type guy.

Teams without 'heir apparents'  at QB may see some value in Paxton. I think we could get a R4 from:

Baltimore (Flacco is 32, backup talent - Ryan Mallett)

New Orleans (Brees is 38 and potentially leaving, backup talent - Chase Daniel)

NYG (Eli is 36 and looks cooked, backup talent - Davis Webb, 17' recent R3 pick)

Pittsburg (Ben is 35 and wants to retire, backup talent - Landry, Dobbs 17' recent R4 pick)

All the above teams outside NO also have offenses that rely on big arm QB's, and all except NO would be coming off years of a QB with elite height as well. Those things could bode well for Lynch trade value IMO.

The scarcity of QB talent is true in most years, but if the draft class is as deep as advertised (even if it’s only perception) and guys like Tyrod Taylor likely hitting the market (Cousins to SF/CLE is a near lock at this stage), not to mention Jimmy Garapollo (and Brett Hundley nearing trade time 1 year from FA next offseason), I just don’t see even a 4th without Lynch showing something more in game action.   Plus in MIA one of Cutler / Tannehill will likely leave and in MIN Teddy Bridgewater likely gone if Bradford’s knee is ok long term. 

Seems like 5-6 QB are a lock to go Rds 1-2 for the 2018 draft.       Add JimmyG (feeling he stays but some teams will want to see if he is available) & Hundley to the trade market.   Taylor, Bridgewater, and the Cutler/Tannehill loser to FA.   I don’t see any team wishing to spend even a 4th on Lynch over drafting a guy and getting all the cheap years in a rookie deal, exploring a trade for the 2 other trade candidates (even at a higher price JimmyG and Hundley appear ready) or take the FA Taylor / Cutler-Tanny loser / Bridgewater and save the pick. 

Now if Lynch shows in-game progress totally different story.   Without any more game tape though it’s hard to look at the market next year and see where someone pays for what looks on the outside like a failed project.  

I know it’s way too soon to give up on Lynch but we’re the ones that have paid the cost already - no one else has to, so they are going to be way more reluctant to believe in projection.   It’s the fallacy that causes hometeam fans to over value their own guys.   I think it’s a pipe dream to get anything for him other than a throwaway pick without more game film which shows progress.  

[BroncosFan2010]

Ya, Broncofan you may be right. I just don't think its outlandish that someone deals a R4-R5 pick for him based on prior draft evaluation. Guys like Teddy, Tyrod, JimmyG, will cost a ton and all the upper tier QB's will be gone by R1, R2 at the latest. A team in no rush to replace their starter but wanting a buy low young talent could see spending a R4/R5 on a rookie contract, former R1, toolsy guy like Lynch as a good investment. Baltimore in particular strikes me as a decent landing spot. Mallett is on a 1 year deal and Flacco is going to be 33 next year. Lynch fits their deep play action gameplan and they may see investing a R5 in Paxton as a better option than a R2 in someone like Luke Falk in R2.

[champ11]

let's draft lamar jackson when he slips and watch some idiotic team takes Josh Allen in the top 5 

[1234567]

10 minutes ago, champ11 said:

let's draft lamar jackson when he slips and watch some idiotic team takes Josh Allen in the top 5 

Haha not with the season he's having so far. Right now Allen would be lucky to go in the 5th. Dude looks terrible this year

[broncofan48]

3 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Haha not with the season he's having so far. Right now Allen would be lucky to go in the 5th. Dude looks terrible this year

We need a college prospects thread!  I don't watch any games except for Montana State so I really rely on you guys for scouting haha

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, Broncofan you may be right. I just don't think its outlandish that someone deals a R4-R5 pick for him based on prior draft evaluation. Guys like Teddy, Tyrod, JimmyG, will cost a ton and all the upper tier QB's will be gone by R1, R2 at the latest. A team in no rush to replace their starter but wanting a buy low young talent could see spending a R4/R5 on a rookie contract, former R1, toolsy guy like Lynch as a good investment. Baltimore in particular strikes me as a decent landing spot. Mallett is on a 1 year deal and Flacco is going to be 33 next year. Lynch fits their deep play action gameplan and they may see investing a R5 in Paxton as a better option than a R2 in someone like Luke Falk in R2.

Yeah, anything's possible - I mean, who thought we'd get anything for Sambrailo?  But a 4th is still pretty valuable currency.   Again, if Lynch shows anything in game film, either in 2H this year, or preseason, then teams would likely be intrigued.   It's just hard looking at the gamefilm Lynch has put up and for teams to go, "do I want to invest in this guy THAT much?"

I mean, Chad Kelly had a ton of flags (decision-making and off the field stuff, injury recovery) - but the physical tools are mostly there.  And he went as Mr. Irrelevant.   Lynch's tape is so bad it's hard to see how people look at him any differently than as a failed first rounder.   Again, I'm not one of the people willing to say that without one more full offseason and training camp - he deserves at least that much.  But at the same time we paid the price that requires that patience - no one else does, it's hard to see why anyone would want to pay anything to invest that much.   If I didn't have the 1st round pick invested, I wouldn't be as patient (but paying that price, it means we have to be that patient, too, this was always the most likely timeframe needed, despite what many members in the fan base were hoping for).

There's zero chance Elway cuts him - I just don't think he'd get enough return to warrant cutting bait now by trade or release (a 4th would actually be OK given where he's at for sure).   That's part of why I think Lynch stays - he has to show decent preseason film to get any trade interest.    Kinda like what the Bengals did with AJ McCarron this offseason (not throwing stones at our reporters, I totally believe the story was true, but I think CIN fed the fake news story to our guys). 

[BroncosFan2010]

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let's draft lamar jackson when he slips and watch some idiotic team takes Josh Allen in the top 5 

I would pass on both. Josh Allen is just a physical talent right now (Prototypical build, height, arm, etc.) but his on field play has been putrid. I never really understood the hype.

Lamar Jackson is electric and actually a better passer than Allen IMO, but will go top 15 and I don't see his frame holding up honestly. Most comparable athletic profiles at QB (Michael Vick, Seneca Wallace, Dennis Dixon, Josh Johnson, Pat White, Colin Kaepernick, Tyrod Taylor, Robert Griffin III, Russ Wilson, Johnny Manziel, Marcus Mariota) suffer recurring injuries based on their more slender frames, affinity to run the ball and inability to carry adequate weight.

I love Lamar as a prospect but think he a) will cost a TON to move up for b) will be extremely injury prone in the NFL because his running style is more Vick than Cam or Russ. I also think you win in the pocket in this league with Russ and to a lesser extent Cam as the outliers (And both were backed by extrodinary defenses when they made their runs).

So, ya, I say we just stick with Trevor and his steady pocket play over spending 2-3 R1 picks and moving for the electric but historically almost guaranteed to get badly injured Lamar

[jolly red giant]

3 hours ago, paul-mac said:

 

Honestly I could see us just cutting Lynch in March if we can't find trade value for him. Siemian/Os/Kelly is definitely the three I'd expect next year (we'll probably bring in a late rounder or UDFA to battle Kelly for the practice squad role)

Can't see Kelly ending up on the practice squad - if he shows anything at all in training camp he will have to be on the roster or someone will claim him.

[jolly red giant]

This thread is swinging one way - from throwing Siemian under a bus to talking about a $15million contract - and now to canning Lynch.

Now I think Lynch will be a bust - I don't think he has the brains to play QB - but he was always a project and it might not be until year 4 that he shows anything. If he is cut after this season he will cost $4.5million in dead cap space and we would probably have to give Osweiler a decent contract to keep him as back-up. So I really one see two options - 1. Lynch is traded to take the contract with him (and that is unlikely given what is available at QB next off-season) - or 2. dump Osweiler and keep Lynch because the cap space is tight next year.

[Broncofan]

48 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

This thread is swinging one way - from throwing Siemian under a bus to talking about a $15million contract - and now to canning Lynch.

Now I think Lynch will be a bust - I don't think he has the brains to play QB - but he was always a project and it might not be until year 4 that he shows anything. If he is cut after this season he will cost $4.5million in dead cap space and we would probably have to give Osweiler a decent contract to keep him as back-up. So I really one see two options - 1. Lynch is traded to take the contract with him (and that is unlikely given what is available at QB next off-season) - or 2. dump Osweiler and keep Lynch because the cap space is tight next year.

We don’t have to worry about an extension with anyone  yet until the offseason.  So we can let Siemian prove this start is legit.  And again there is no logical scenario where Lynch gets cut.  Most ppl get that.  

Its like the contests where the judges lowest score and highest score are taken out.   The truth lies in between.  

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

we would probably have to give Osweiler a decent contract to keep him as back-up

I am not so sure about this. And if he commands anything more than the vet min we should go another direction. He has TONS of money already in the bank so unless he gets a solid offer to compete for a starting gig, something very unlikely, then I think he would stay in familiar settings at the vet min + TONS of guaranteed money rather than 2M in another city + TONS of guaranteed money. But who knows.

Quote

This thread is swinging one way - from throwing Siemian under a bus to talking about a $15million contract - and now to canning Lynch

Ive been on board with the first and last points all summer

[jsthomp2007]

The person who make Lynch expendable is Brock...he screwed this whole thing up, because without him...you could use Lynch as your viable backup...but, I like Brock in that role better, because he has proven he can win you 5-6 games if you need him to.  But, I also don't think Brock is better than Siemien.  Lynch at this point is a waste of space.  Plus, like many have mentioned...you have Chad Kelly with the pedigree if all else fails...you could always rebuild with him, at the very least. 

Elway's signing of Brock was either genius, or flawed, because now you got a problem in what to do with Lynch.  If I were Elway, I would see what GM out there think Lynch has upside...still...and I would try to get some offensive line pieces...I would send Lynch and a draft pick to SF for Staley in a minute.  Or, whoever their RT is. 

[SpanosPayYourRent]

On 8/8/2017 at 7:38 PM, CWood21 said:

Didn't they already announce that Siemian is the starter?

They're asking who they think deserves it

[AKRNA]

On 9/21/2017 at 9:46 AM, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

There has been talk on Broncos radio, about offering Trevor Siemian a contract extension at this point in time. What are your thoughts on this?

I'm for it ONLY IF they can get him to <$15M cap hit per year.

The real reason Brady will go down as the GOAT? He took far less money than he could have

 

I'm not sure if $15 Will do it but it's close. 

Your point about excessive QB and other salaries is absolutely correct. In a 53 man team sport with a hard cap a $20million + contract at any one position degrades your remaining roster too much.